Botanical names in Indian Treetreepix and Flowers of India databases

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Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 5, 2009, 7:35:19 AM9/5/09
to J.M. Garg, Anand Kumar Bhatt, Devendra Bhardwaj, Dinesh Valke, Nayan Singh, Prashant awale, satish pardeshi, Suresh C. Sharma, Satish Phadke, Rajesh Sachdev, indian tree pix
Consider these names in our databases
 
 
Indigofera astragalina                        Syn: I. hirsuta     
 
Phyllanthus amarus                          Syn: P. nirurii
 
Ficus microcarpa                              Syn: F. retusa
 
Crateva adansonii                              syn: C.. religiosa
 
Acalypha lanceolata                          Syn: A. indica
 
Zizyphus mauritiana                          Syn: Z. jububa
 
 
The Plant names without author names are sometimes used in general purpose books and text books, not in taxonomic treatments or databases. Whenever these are used without author names, it is understood that there is only one species by that name, or the validly published one. If we apply this logic our names would be wriiten as under:
 
 
  
Indigofera astragalina DC., 1825          Syn: I. hirsuta Linn., 1753
 
Phyllanthus amarus Schumach., 1827    Syn: P. nirurii Linn., 1753
             
Ficus microcarpa Linn.f., 1781                Syn: F. retusa Linn., 1753
 
Crateva adansonii DC., 1824               syn: C. religiosa G. Forst., 1786
 
Acalypha lanceolata Willd, 1768         Syn: A. indica Linn., 1753
 
Zizyphus mauitiana Lamk., 1789        Syn: Z. jujuba Mill, 1789.
 
 
In all these cases the synonym is of earlier date, and should be used as correct name and not as synonym. We are using them as synonyms because they were named as accepted names in Hooker's Flora of British India, and other Indian Floras, but the indian material was  subsequently found to be different species. The citations would be meaningful if properly cited as under:
 
 
Indigofera astragalina DC., 1825          Syn: I. hirsuta Baker (non Linn.,  1753)
 
Phyllanthus amarus Schumach., 1827    Syn: P. nirurii Hook.f. (non Linn., 1753)     (however, I don't find any standard publication following this nomenclature. The most usually followed is this one:
 
Phyllanthus fraternus Webster, 1955        Syn: P. niruri Hook.f. (non Linn.)                     )
             
Ficus microcarpa Linn.f., 1781                Syn: F. retusa auct. (non Linn., 1753)
 
Crateva adansonii DC., 1824               syn: C. religiosa Auct (non G. Forst., 1786)
 
Acalypha lanceolata Willd, 1768         Syn: A. indica Linn., 1753   (I don't know of any publication which cites A. indica as synonym of A. lanceolata. In case they are synonyms, A. indica should be accepted name, unless it is another case of misidentification with A. indica)
 
Zizyphus mauitiana Lamk., 1789        Syn: Z. jujuba Lamk. (non Mill, 1768)
 
 
Our databases are slowly expanding and should soon becaome most frequently visited by plant lovers and botanists , and I feel the need for proper represntation of data  .and this can happen only if names of species and authors are properly represented.
 
It may take some time to correct older records, but atleast from now onwards we can decide to include names and synonyms with proper author citation, to make our databases useful to botanists in general and researchers in particular. 
 
    
 
 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45

J.M. Garg

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Sep 5, 2009, 8:49:36 AM9/5/09
to Gurcharan Singh, Anand Kumar Bhatt, Devendra Bhardwaj, Dinesh Valke, Nayan Singh, Prashant awale, satish pardeshi, Suresh C. Sharma, Satish Phadke, Rajesh Sachdev, indian tree pix
Thanks, Singh ji, for pointing out.
Database was initially meant for non-botanists only. Although, it is expanding at a very fast pace now.
Most of the members are not giving the author or the year as also number of websites which I am linking & taking inf. for Database.
I don't know how to go about it.
It may take me sometime to comprehend the whole thing. 
Is it possible for somebody to take up this job of updating Database in future?
 

2009/9/5 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>



--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en

Pankaj Kumar

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Sep 5, 2009, 9:05:24 AM9/5/09
to J.M. Garg, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
With due respects to Dr. Gurcharan Singh,

For author citations, according to ICBN, it is recommended that
abbreviations needs to be followed for authors using following
reference (RECOMMENDATION 46A, ICBN):

Brummitt, R. K. and C. E. Powell. 1992. Authors of plant names: a list
of authors of scientific names of plants, with recommended standard
forms of their names, including abbreviations. Royal Botanic Gardens,
Kew.

There are various editions of this book, which keep updating
information with the new author names and their abbreviations.

So, Carolus Linnaeus is cited as 'L.' and not as 'Linn.' and
Jean-Baptiste Lamarck is cited as 'Lam.' and not as 'Lamk.'.

Some of these abbreviations are present at the following site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_botanists_by_author_abbreviation

The latest code of ICBN: Vienna Code is available at the following
link for free:
http://ibot.sav.sk/icbn/main.htm

I am sending this information just incase members want it to be
standardized properly, for use by both taxonomists as well as
non-botanists.

Regards

Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 5, 2009, 10:38:44 AM9/5/09
to Pankaj Kumar, J.M. Garg, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Thanks Pankaj ji for information. We are students all our life, and there is
nothing better than learning few things.
Nothing to feel apologitic

Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45

J.M. Garg

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Sep 5, 2009, 2:13:10 PM9/5/09
to Gurcharan Singh, Pankaj Kumar, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Some feedback:
"Would it be expecting too much for the site to stay simple and interesting for non-botanists?
 
Or could the more specialised and higher level discussions be put on a different link so as not to intimidate the lay plant-lover?
 
 (Just a suggestion, which I hope is taken  impartially.)
 
Padmini Raghavan."

2009/9/5 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>

J.M. Garg

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Sep 5, 2009, 2:25:09 PM9/5/09
to Gurcharan Singh, Pankaj Kumar, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Feedback from Pankaj ji:
"Hello All,
Giving this site slightly botanical touch will not at all hamper the
botanical understanding of the non-botanical experts!!! It will not at
all hamper anyone in anyways.
I know people like Tabish who are not at all from botany background
but still I find him better than atleast me at most of the times.
But offcourse the decision should be universally accepted to all and
not only to me.
Regards
Pankaj"

2009/9/5 J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

Amit Ray

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Sep 5, 2009, 9:16:46 PM9/5/09
to J.M. Garg, Gurcharan Singh, Pankaj Kumar, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
I concur with this opinion. Indiantreepix is tending to get a bit too scientific for me. Please do not get me wrong. I am a lay person with love for photography and nature and that is what has drawn me to this group when Garg-ji started it. I do appreciate the help provided by the experts. This is just my opinion - many probably will not agree. Thanks and regards to all of you.
--
Amit Ray
25B Central Road
Kolkata 700032
India
URL: http://wildlifeindia.freehostia.com
Phone: +91 033 24136034
Mobile: +919433715107
Email:
1) amitra...@gmail.com
2) amitra...@yahoo.co.in
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5) ami...@dellmail.com
6) amitra...@lavabit.com
7) amitra...@aol.in
8) amitran...@rediffmail.com

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 5, 2009, 11:09:33 PM9/5/09
to Amit Ray, J.M. Garg, Pankaj Kumar, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Amit ji, Padmani ji and other nonbotany colleagues
 
All of us are bound by one thing: Love for photography, love for nature and curiosity to know what plant I have clicked. In that no one is botanist or nonbotanist. All of us also want our plant to be identified correctly, and it is here that botanical names come in handy, and they are more meaningful when author name is attached.
 
No garden lover would have miised the common garden flower cornflower. We all also know that it is botanically Centaurea cyanus, but incidently it is also known as bachelor's button, blue bottle, ragged robin. If you search for blue bottle on the internet, you will reach Centaurea cyanus, Muscari neglectum, species of Gentiana or even an insect Calliphora vomitoria. Safeda for us in Delhi and elsewhere is Eucalyptus spp. but if ask any one from Kashmir for a twig of Safeda, he/she will give you Populus spp. All these problems are not there when using botanical name. Each species will have only one accepted scientific name, known all over the world. You can extract all common names for this plant, not vice versa as indicated above.
 
And now the names with authors. I will just give you just yesterday's example.Swagat ji (17625) uploaded a photograph which I identified as Atropa acuminata Royle., appropriately known as Indian belladona, a very important medicinal plant common in Himalayas. If you look for its description in Older Indian books you will find it identified as A. belladona Linn., the European bellodona L. which looks totally different (see it on Flowers of India-often cultivated in gardens). So won't you like to know whether your plant is belladona (deadly-nightshade) or Indian belladona. Botanically it can be written (as per present practice in Indiantreepix and Flowers of India):
 
Atropa acuminata                              Syn: A. belladona
 
What is your opinion  is it correct?
 
or else this one is better:
 
Atropa acuminata Royle                    Sy: A. belladona Clarke (non L.)
 
Make your choice, shortcut and confusion or clarity.
 
Not to forget,many experts here in the group burn midnight oil to see that your plants are correctly identified. A plant sent by me at 1.30 in night  was identified by Pankaj ji at 2.15 at night. We can all see the efforts and contributions of Kenneth to see that our plants are correctly identified. All have love for plants and passion for photography.  



clear=all>

M. Sundararaman

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Sep 5, 2009, 11:27:00 PM9/5/09
to sin...@sify.com, amitra...@gmail.com, jmg...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Dear and respected Dr Gurcharan,
You have kindly provided enough excuse for me not to undertake studying about trees and Saplings and their Botanical Names .I am a B.E by Qln and spread tree-planting culture within my limited means of understanding.My Group of such "Unpads"in the "Friends of Nature" group(including IT/commerce) raise Saplings of "Thespesia Populnea",Neem, Pongamia Glabra(or Pinnata),cassia Fistula,Sterculia....in 1/2 Litre or one-litre milk-sachet and distribute freely to provide more health and environment with the grace of God,the Almighty.However, I would like to be guided whenever it becomes necessary.
I really wonder how our Friend Shri Garg gets time and energy to moderate his group while in office in an important Portfolio
i am attaching a write-up on my hobby which keeps me more healthy at 68 and also the world healthy by more Oxygen and greenery.You can spread this hobby for practice to your friends in the retired life.with regardsM.SUNDARARAMAN

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 08:37:18 +0530 wrote

>
Amit ji, Padmani ji and other nonbotany
colleagues

All of us are bound by one thing: Love for
photography, love for nature and curiosity to know what plant I have clicked. In
that no one is botanist or nonbotanist. All of us also want our plant to be
identified correctly, and it is here that botanical names come in handy, and
they are more meaningful when author name is attached.

No garden lover would have miised the common garden
flower cornflower. We all also know that it is botanically Centaurea cyanus, but
incidently it is also known as bachelor's button, blue bottle, ragged robin. If
you search for blue bottle on the internet, you will reach Centaurea cyanus,
Muscari neglectum, species of Gentiana or even an insect Calliphora vomitoria.
Safeda for us in Delhi and elsewhere is Eucalyptus spp. butif ask any one
from Kashmir for a twig of Safeda, he/she will give you Populus spp. All these
problems are not there when using botanical name.Each species will have
only one accepted scientific name, known all over the world. You can extract all
common names for this plant, not vice versa as indicated above.

And now the names with authors. I will just give
you just yesterday's example.Swagat ji (17625) uploaded a photograph which I
identified as Atropa acuminata Royle., appropriately known as Indian belladona,
a very important medicinal plant common in Himalayas. If you look for its
description in OlderIndian books you will find it identified as A.
belladona Linn.,the European bellodona L. which looks totally different
(see it on Flowers of India-often cultivated in gardens). So won't you like to
know whether your plant is belladona (deadly-nightshade) or Indian belladona.
Botanically it can be written (as per present practice inIndiantreepix and
Flowers of India):

Atropa
acuminata
Syn: A. belladona

What is your opinionis it
correct?

or else this one isbetter:

Atropa acuminata
Royle
Sy: A. belladona Clarke (non L.)

Make your choice, shortcut and confusion or
clarity.

Not to forget,many experts here in the group burn
midnight oil to see that your plants are correctly identified.A plant sent
by me at 1.30 in night was identified by Pankaj ji at 2.15 at night. We
canall see the efforts and contributions of Kenneth to see that our plants
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM, J.M. Garg wrote:
>

Some feedback:
"Would it be expecting too much for the site to stay simple and
interesting for non-botanists?
>
>Or could the more specialised
and higher level discussions be put on a different link so as not to
intimidate the lay plant-lover?
>
>(Just a suggestion, which
I hope is taken impartially.)
>
>Padmini
Raghavan."
>
>

2009/9/5 Gurcharan Singh
>
Thanks Pankaj ji for information. We are students all
our life, and there is nothing better than learning few things.



>Nothing to feel apologitic

>
>Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>Associate Professor
>SGTB Khalsa
College
>University of Delhi, Delhi
>India
>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
>----- Original
Message ----- From: "Pankaj Kumar"
>To: "J.M. Garg"
>Cc: ;
M. Sundararaman Tel# 044--24461660;SINDHUR SEA PRINCESS
9 Coastal Road ., BESANT NAGAR; CHENNAI 600090
Until the last tree is cut;
Until the last river is dry;
Until the last fish is caught;
Until the last animal is killed;
Man willnot realise that he cannot eat money
Founder Trustee of NIZHAL,anNGO ofChennai
SeedEXNORA Senator
Picking_seeds---A_Hobby.doc

Pankaj Oudhia

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Sep 5, 2009, 11:29:55 PM9/5/09
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Guruchahran ji for your comments. I work with Traditional
Healers. They don't have basic modern education. They are not aware
whether ovary is superior or inferior but still they identify the
plants without any mistake. There is no chance of mistake as they have
to use it for patients. Small error may lead to the death of patients.
They identify plants from distance. I have observed that they have far
more information than our standard floras have. They don't use modern
scientific names (and methods of quoting it) but still they know much
more than the socalled experts. Ayurveda is in front of us as example,
without modern complexities of modern nomenclature.

I feel that along with adopting modern science there is need to learn
methods of ancient science specially for plant identification. I show
my pictures to Traditional Healers. Without any delay they identify it
from picture. They don't ask for pictures of all parts. They identify
it even from one or two leaf stage. I feel that we must learn this art
of identification, instead of wasting time to "please" the western
researchers. Lets world follow our system of nomenclature if they want
to learn from Indian experiences.

Please correct me, if I am wrong.

regards

Pankaj Oudhia

J.M. Garg

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Sep 6, 2009, 12:04:30 AM9/6/09
to Pankaj Oudhia, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear members,
I think the discussion will be unending with pros & cons on everything including this topic.
I thank all the participants for contributing their frank views on the matter, which only shows how much one cares for this group "Indiantreepix'.
 
Question was only from my side, as I update the database, as below:
"........
I don't know how to go about it.
It may take me sometime to comprehend the whole thing.
........"
 
As on date, I will be trying to give Author name along with the Bot. names to be more specific (it hardly complicates anything while adding value to our members)- to start with for new addition to the Database or the the plants, where there are chances of confusion (as pointed out by Singh ji for the few species in this thread).
 
May be I get to comprehend the things over time & look for expanding, provided time is available or somebody else takes up the job of updating the database (as it keeps me away from wonderful discussions that take place on this group, helping members with Ids & learning a lot in the process).
 
I close this thread here only & request members not to give any more feedbacks in the matter.
 
2009/9/6 Pankaj Oudhia <pankaj...@gmail.com>

Gurcharan Singh

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Sep 6, 2009, 1:56:56 AM9/6/09
to M. Sundararaman, amitra...@gmail.com, jmg...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Dear Sundaram ji
Let me first show my appreciation to know that there is some one elder than me in this group. We are separated by four years. I greatly appreciate the great work you are doing. I still remember as child picking up Guchhi (Morchella), Kan dole (Halvella) as two most delicious wild plants (now guchhi with overexploitation, is costlier than gold), which I could remember from chilhood (no botany knowledge) and could identify specimens botanically when in M. Sc.In that sense there is no botanist and nonbotanist. My mother could identify young plants of Saag, sarson, belonging to Brassica, whereas many botanists can't do it from even flowering specimens.
  Yours, mine, my mother and similar cases are isolated ones. We want the progress of whole India, for that information spread is essential, and more important correct one at that, so that we don't spend crores of rupees on importing products from outside.India and Africa are richest areas are floristic diversity, butamong  poorest in the
World, because is paucity of information, and proper exploitation. Let us not just be happy with our heritage. In this world of competition, we have to learn more to compete and progress.
   I rembember once visiting Nainital. On way we stayed in a village. The whole village was out of their homes for 8-10 hours because a holy person had come to give herbal cure for their eyes. When they came back I asked for the plant my host got from the saint. I went out and showed him plants growing in front of his house. It was Eclipta alba, (Bringaaraja in Sanskrit; Bhangra, mochkand in Hindi). There are thousands of such instances in our country. There is need to educate our people, and that is possible, if we know them correctly ourself.
 
That has been my objective throughout
 
PS: Garg ji, you are getting enough material for your writeups.   

J.M. Garg

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Sep 6, 2009, 2:10:35 AM9/6/09
to Gurcharan Singh, M. Sundararaman, amitra...@gmail.com, sahani...@gmail.com, indian...@googlegroups.com, pankaj...@rediffmail.com
Hi, Singh ji.
Let us treat this thread as closed.
This is my request. Pl. keep it.

2009/9/6 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>
Until the last fish is caught;
Until the last animal is killed;
Man willnot realise that he cannot eat money
Founder Trustee of NIZHAL,anNGO ofChennai
SeedEXNORA Senator
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