long climber ID from Hooghly 22-04-12 SK-2

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I thought a TV cable snapped off and ran across the ground. It was glossy black with a diameter of a TV/Telephone cable. But why nodes?!!! And it was going to die shortly due to human intervention :(

Species : UNKNOWN

Habit & Habitat : wild twiner, roadside

Date : 18-04-2012, 2.20 p.m.

Place : Dattapur (Hooghly), WB

Thank you & Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Sorry, i have attached an image twice instead of attaching this one....

Regards,

surajit koley

[Muthu Karthick]

Any Menispermaceae?

--
Muthu Karthick, N
Care Earth Trust

#15, second main road,

Thillai ganga nagar,
Chennai - 600 061

Mob: 0091 96268 33911
www.careearthtrust.org

[surajit koley]

Sir,

 

That's too tough to a kindergarten student to search for... :)

 

Regards,

 

surajit

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1840 members & 1,10,000 messages on 31/3/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 6500 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[Vijayasankar]

Forwarding the mail from Surajit ji, to the group...
Thanks Surajit ji for the additional, nice pictures!

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>

Date: Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:114270] Re: long climber ID from Hooghly 22-04-12 SK-2
To: Vijayasankar <vijay.b...@gmail.com>

Vijayasankar Ji,

 

Recorded some more images today, attached here, that i think of the same plant that i posted earlier. It seems to me your ID is correct.

 

Also attaching some more images to the original post

 

Thank you very much.

Regards,

 

surajit

 

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Vijayasankar <vijay.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

It may be Pachygone ovata.

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[surajit koley]

Thank you Sir for taking care of this post too.

A couple of days ago i recorded a similar liana that might be this same species. Attaching those photographs (this new set of photographs were taken on 24-04-2012 in another place of Hooghly, West Bengal).

.Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Extremely sorry Vijayasankar Ji, i forgot to add these images to the post that day. I can see my folly here!

 

Thank you & Regards,

 

surajit

[kamasani narasimhareddy]

Dear Surajit Ji,

Please check with Tiliacora acuminata. It is a common climber along the field hedges and roadsides. 

Is it commonly available in West Benagal?

With Regards

K.N. Reddy

Research Scientist

Laila R&D CentreUnit-1, Phase-III, Jawahar Autonagar,

Vijayawada-520 007

Andhra Pradesh

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Sir for the ID suggestion.

This plant is very common in West Bengal and, as you have mentioned, a common climber in hedges and roadsides. But i think i would have to wait until i capture fruit images of this plant so that i could compare it with those available in the internet.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Today (07-05-12) again visited the very same plant to see if i could get some fruit pics. But, to my bad luck, someone has cut it very recently. Attaching the photographs that i recorded today. Also attaching flower pics of another plant (same species) found nearby.

One thing is very clear to me that this liana is very common here and all the three sets of pictures uploaded so far are from the same species.

Thank you & Regards,

Surajit Koley

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

“Please check with Tiliacora acuminata. It is a common climber along the field hedges and roadsides. Is it commonly available in West Benagal?
With Regards
K.N. Reddy”         

"Thank you very much Sir for the ID suggestion.
This plant is very common in West Bengal and, as you have mentioned, a common climber in hedges and roadsides. But i think i would have to wait until i capture fruit images of this plant so that i could compare it with those available in the internet.

Regards,
Surajit Koley"

 

 

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1860 members & 1,15,000 messages on 30/4/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 6500 species).

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Thank you very much for making this post resurface, as always you do, taking care of everything.

I kept this in my mind and searched extensively if i could get any fruit pic of this plant. What i observed for the past one month :

1) It is very common roadside liana, spreads rapidly, climbs any tree it finds in its vicinity and covers the entire canopy of its host tree, however big the host is.

2) It runs along the ground, often spreading parallel shoots, when there is no tree nearby.

3) No fruits visible that resembles Pachygone ovata - http://keys.trin.org.au:8080/key-server/data/0e0f0504-0103-430d-8004-060d07080d04/media/Html/taxon/Pachygone_ovata.htm

4) I didn't find any fruit to compare it with Tiliacora acuminata - http://cfrmcc.yolasite.com/resources/300ar.gif

I am grateful to Muthu Ji, Vijayasankar Ji and Reddy Ji for giving me the leads for this liana. After doing some search in the net it appears to me that it could be some other species of Tiliacora, maybe Tiliacora racemosa as in -

a) http://www.iiim.res.in/herbarium/menispermaceae/tiliacora_racemosa.htm

b)  http://ph.ansp.org/get_image.php?barcode=00006399

3) http://www.herbimi.info/herbimi/results.htm?l4code=IND-WB&page=3

Thank you & Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Sir,

First, i must confess that i cannot help but calling myself 'a fool'!

I have excuses though : a) so few online data is available regarding wild species of India, specially if it does not bear attractive flowers or fruits, b) almost no image is available so that it could help a layperson... etc.

However, i just found out (what i didn't know earlier) that -

1) A Menispermaceae member is a dioecious plant - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=10561

2) Tiliacora racemosa is a synonym of T. acuminata or Cocculus acuminatus - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=220013554

3) The plant T. acuminata / T. recemosa has ayurvedic use - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15476314

Attaching here some more photographs of the same plant. Please confirm if the species is Tiliacora acuminata.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:02 AM, kamasani narasimhareddy <drknre...@gmail.com> wrote:

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again forId confirmation orotherwise please.

Some earlierrelevant feedback:

“Please check with Tiliacora acuminata. It is a common climber along the field hedges and roadsides. Is it commonly available in West Benagal?
With Regards
K.N. Reddy”         

 

"However, i just found out (what i didn't know earlier) that -

1) A Menispermaceae member is a dioecious plant - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=10561

2) Tiliacora racemosa is a synonym of T. acuminata or Cocculus acuminatus - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=220013554

3) The plant T. acuminata / T. recemosa has ayurvedic use - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15476314

Attaching here some more photographs of the same plant. Please confirm if the species is Tiliacora acuminata.

Regards,

Surajit Koley"

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much, Garg Sir, for making it resurface. I am yet to get any fruit pics of Tilicora acuminata.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[Giby Kuriakose]

Flowers opening across the tip and not down the sides (Gamble-I page 25). Hence, this might be Pachygone ovata of Menispermaceae family. 

Thanks to Navandu for introducing this plant to me while we were together in Pooyamkutty forests in Kerala. 

Regards,

Giby

--
GIBY KURIAKOSE PhD
Ashoka Trust for Research in Ecology and the Environment (ATREE),
Royal Enclave,
Jakkur Post, Srirampura
Bangalore- 560064
India
Phone - +91 9448714856 +919947109987 (Mobile)
visit my pictures @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/giby

[surajit koley]

Thank you Giby Sir for the ID. This supports Vijayasankar Ji's identification.

Thank you Garg Sir.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Dr Reddy Sir,

Thank you very much for confirming the species. The day before yesterday i came to know that some local people call it LAVANGA-LATA (lavanga = clove; lata = climber/twiner/creeper) in Bengali. This is, however, i think due to blackish dry male flowers of this plant. But, unlike the plant this name (LAVANGA-LATA) is not common.

Garg Sir,

Thank you very much for taking care of this plant

With regards,

Surajit Koley

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Dr K.N.Reddy <knr...@lailanutra.com> wrote:

Dear Garg ji,

 

It is falls under Tiliacora acuminata only. In Pachygone leaf tip is mucronate. Here the leaves are having acuminate tip.

 

K.N. Reddy

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I have recorded the fruits of the same plant today. I am grateful to all of you for introducing me to a new family that i didn't know earlier.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Dr K.N.Reddy <knr...@lailanutra.com> wrote:

Dear Garg ji,

 

It is falls under Tiliacora acuminata only. In Pachygone leaf tip is mucronate. Here the leaves are having acuminate tip.

 

K.N. Reddy

----- Original Message -----

From: jmgarg1

To: efloraofindia

Cc: tanay...@gmail.com ; ulu_bo...@yahoo.co.in ; mitra...@gmail.com ; mithi...@yahoo.com ; pch...@gmail.com ; pauls...@gmail.com ; micromi...@gmail.com ; subh...@yahoo.com ; apda...@gmail.com ; pamyn...@gmail.com ; surajit koley ; Dr K.N.Reddy ; Vijayasankar Raman

Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:49 PM

[Giby Kuriakose]

According to Gamble, the key character differentiating Pachygone and Tiliacora is the flower opening... 

Flower opening down the sides..... Tiliacora 

Flower opening across the tip....... Pachygone

Leaf characters are not mentioned by Gamble!

Regards

Giby

[surajit koley]

Giby Sir, now it is getting very much complicated to me :(((

Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

Sir / Madam,

A search in the "ENVIS Centre of Medicinal Plants" (http://envis.frlht.org/botanical_search.php) yields following results :-

• distribution of Pachygone ovata restricted to South India - http://envis.frlht.org/botanical_search.php?txtbtname=pachygone+ovata&gesp=2486%7CPachygone+ovata+%28POIR.%29+HOOK.F.+%26+THOMS.
• a herbarium of Pachygone ovata available at - http://envis.frlht.org/showherbarium.php?d=2486
• a herbarium for Tiliacora acuminata is available at - http://envis.frlht.org/showherbarium.php?d=2584 sourced from http://envis.frlht.org/botanical_search.php?txtbtname=tiliacora+acuminata&gesp=2584%7CTiliacora+acuminata+MIERS

more on Pachygone ovata -

1. distribution in India - http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?418434
2. soil quality - http://florabase.dec.wa.gov.au/browse/profile/2940
3. a picture in flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/45835639@N04/5211939792/ and same pic in wiki - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachygone

more on Tiliacora acuminata -

1. a sketch - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=115772&flora_id=5
2. description - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=220013554

The plant in my post more close to Tiliacora acuminata than Pachygone ovata.

Thank you & Regards,

Surajit Koley

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Giby Kuriakose <giby.ku...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Vijayasankar]

Surajit ji,

I think I created lots of confusion in this thread :(
Sorry for that :)
After study, I tend to agree with your conclusion - Tiliacora acuminata, as earlier identified by Dr. Narasimha Reddy.
The plants of both these species are more or less comparable and are also highly variable, hence the confusion.
However, the differences are said to be:
     Leaves pinnately nerved, acuminate at apex; carpels 6-9 ---> Tiliacora acuminata
     Leaves palmately nerved, acute, obtuse or retuse at apex; carpels 3 ---> Pachygone ovata

Thanks to Giby for the additional flower feature that I was not aware.
Please check the number of carpels in your plant when possible.

Note: The picture in the flickr & wiki links provided by you is probably incorrectly identified as Pachygone. It looks like a Dioscorea species to me.
Thank you

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[surajit koley]

Good morning Vijayasankar Ji.

I am very sorry that things turned out this way.

I understand the difficulties of identifying plants only by means of virtual images. That too often recorded by members like me who have no expertise in the field and do no not know what characters are to look for and what angle to use to capture those features.

I hope i won't be deprived of your generous help in future too.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Good morning Vijayasankar Ji,

Yesterday, i have recorded the pictures of what appears to me as female flower of this plant. The flower is too small to give me clear pictures.

Thank you & regards,

Surajit Koley

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Vijayasankar <vijay.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Vijayasankar]

Good morning Surajit ji,

I think I am seeing 6 carpels, which confirm Dr. Narasimha Reddy's id: Tiliacora acuminata.
Thanks a lot for the follow-up and nice, detailed pictures!

 

Regards 

 

Vijayasankar Raman
National Center for Natural Products Research
University of Mississippi

[Giby Kuriakose]

Dear all,

Very interesting thread. 

Wonderful follow through. 

Good learning. 

Thanks Surjith ji for your keen interest and very clear pictures with all necessary characters. 

I haven't got any information on leaves from Gamble (I only had Gamble as a reference then). 

Thanks dear Vijay for additional information that was very clear. 

I think this thread highlights the importance of such interactions on identifying, especially, similar looking/confusing species.  

Thanks and Regards,

Giby

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Vijayasankar Ji for confirming. It's sad that nobody in my locality, including myself, knows its Bengali name, yet it's very common here.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Giby Sir for your wonderful feedback. It will really keep me going so that i could learn a thing or two. Otherwise i loose my nerves sometimes.

Regards,

Surajit Koley