VoF Week :: DV :: 03 AUG 12 - 0404 :: ¿ greenish-black-flowered ? herb along Hemakund - Ghangaria trail

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Dinesh Valke

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:59:25 AM8/25/12
to efloraofindia
Brahmakamal near Hemakund
3 AUG 12
Hemakund - Ghangaria trail ... about 11200 ft
Dear friends, ID please.
Habitat: mountain slope
Habit: erect herb, about 1 - 1.5 m high; flower about 8 - 10 mm across


P1020677

P1020674   P1020679
Regards.
Dinesh

Nidhan Singh

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Aug 25, 2012, 11:37:13 AM8/25/12
to Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Very nice dark green petals...should be Scrophularia sp....S. himalensis?

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Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

Prashant Awale

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Aug 25, 2012, 11:44:05 AM8/25/12
to Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Thanks Nidhan ji for the lead. As per FOI web site, this looks like Scrophularia elatior . (http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Himalayan%20Figwort.html).
Regards
Prashant

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Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 25, 2012, 12:46:06 PM8/25/12
to Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke, efloraofindia
Firstly it is neither Scrophularia himalyensis nor S. polyantha, two closely related species characterised by rounded sepals with scarious margin. Here sepals are clearly ovate with acute tip and without scarious margin.
    To me both this plant as well as one on FOI are not S. elatior:
1. S. elatior is an Eastern Himalayan species distributed Nepal eastwards.
2. In S. elatior thye stamens are far exceeding the corolla. Here it is hardly visible from corolla.
3. The plants S. elatior are glabrous to somewhat hairy above here they are prominently glandular pubescent.


Both these plants (FOI and above plant), I hope identify with S. edgeworthii.


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Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089






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Dinesh Valke

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Aug 25, 2012, 2:24:45 PM8/25/12
to Gurcharan Singh, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, efloraofindia
Thank you very much Nidhan ji and Gurcharan ji for the tentative ID of Scrophularia edgeworthii.
Regards.
Dinesh

Tabish

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:05:27 PM8/25/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke
According to Polunin & Stainton, Scrophularia elatior is distributed from UP (including present Uttarakhand) to Bhutan, at elevations 1600-3800 m. Stamens not protruding here, and in the plant at FOI is something to ponder about. However, the present status of Scrophularia edgeworthii apears to be doubtful.
   - Tabish

Tabish

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Aug 25, 2012, 5:19:00 PM8/25/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke
PS:
 The plant at FOI has hairless stem and leaves, but the inflorescence is glandular-hairy. This part agrees with the description of S. elatior at Flora of China.
  - Tabish

Gurcharan Singh

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Aug 25, 2012, 7:30:10 PM8/25/12
to Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke
Nearly more than 30 percent Indian taxa are unresolved according to The Plant List. I think it is their problem, if they have not even listed most Indian plants, though already included in Index Kewensis and IPNI, or consider some unresolved. Pennell's monograph on Scrophulariaceae of Western Himalayas is a very authentic study, and I think we should follow it unless there is concrete  contradictory study.   
    I have already pointed out more than a thousand names which have been wrongly assigned or not known to them.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089


  - Tabish

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Balkar Singh

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Aug 26, 2012, 1:04:06 PM8/26/12
to Gurcharan Singh, Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke
Dear All
the attached pages may be of some help
From  Pennell's monograph on Scrophulariaceae of Western Himalayas 

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Regards

Dr Balkar Singh
Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
Arya P G College, Panipat
Haryana-132103
09416262964
Scrophularia.pdf

Dinesh Valke

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Aug 26, 2012, 1:06:12 PM8/26/12
to Balkar Singh, Gurcharan Singh, Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh
Many thanks Tabish, Gurcharan ji and Balkar ji for the discussion.
Regards.
Dinesh

Tabish

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Aug 26, 2012, 2:46:06 PM8/26/12
to indian...@googlegroups.com, Gurcharan Singh, Tabish, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh, Dinesh Valke
The bottom line seems to be that Scrophularia eliator and Scrophularia edgeworthii are very close to each other, the only notable distinguishing feature being the protruding stamens. Based on Pennell, one can settle on S. edgeworthii
   - Tabish

Dinesh Valke

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Aug 26, 2012, 2:57:26 PM8/26/12
to Tabish, indian...@googlegroups.com, Gurcharan Singh, Prashant Awale, Nidhan Singh
Once again thanks to all of you: Nidhan ji, Prashant, Gurcharan ji, Balkar ji and Tabish for resolving the ID to Scrophularia edgeworthii.
Regards.
Dinesh
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