Fwd: Tamil names of Molluga pentaphylla L. syn. of Trigastrotheca pentaphylla (L.) Thulin

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks very very much, Vijayasankar ji, for this validation.

I always thought "kai" or "kayi" in most of the south Indian languages referred to "bhaji" in Marathi and Konkani ... typically any part(s) of a plant that serves as a vegetable - including "greens" not just the fruit alone. With your clarification, we will compile "பாவைக்காய் பூண்டு paavaikkai poondu" as the name.

Other validated name: சீரகப் பூண்டு cirakap-poondu

Regards.

Dinesh

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Vijayasankar Raman <vijay.b...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 1, 2023 at 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Tamil names of Molluga pentaphylla L. syn. of Trigastrotheca pentaphylla (L.) Thulin
To: Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>

Hi Dinesh ji,

It makes sense. Only thing that doesn't match is the term 'kai' in 'paavaikkai' that refers to the (unripe) 'fruit' part of the vegetable. Whereas in Mollugo the fruit is not the prominent edible part but the leaves or the entire plant. 

But, if you name it 'paavaikkai poondu', for example, then it would mean 'the weed (herb) that tastes like bitter melon'. This is  just a suggestion.

Best, 

Vijayasankar 

On Sun, Oct 1, 2023, 12:58 AM Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Vijayasankar ji,

Many thanks for சீரகப் பூண்டு cirakap-pundu  

About paavaikkai பாவைக்காய் and its relation to bitter gourd.

In Konkani, this plant is known as कडवी भाजी kadvi bhaji ... कडवी kadvi = bitter; भाजी bhaji = greens
Leaves are cooked and eaten as a pot herb; a bitter flavour ... Tropical Plants Database, Ken Fern. tropical.theferns.info. 2023-09-28.

I hope the above two facts are a good justification for the name paavaikkai பாவைக்காய்.

Regards.

Dinesh

    

On Sun, Oct 1, 2023 at 2:59 AM Vijayasankar Raman <vijay.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dinesh ji,

The 2nd name சீரகப் பூண்டு (cirakap-pundu or seeraga poondu) is more appropriate for this plant. 

The name paavaikkai பாவைக்காய் generally refers to bitter gourd (Momordica charantia) and I am not sure how it's connected to Mollugo.

Best,

Vijayasankar

On Sat, Sep 30, 2023 at 5:11 AM Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Vijayasankar ji,

I need help with two Tamil names for Molluga pentaphylla L. ... synonym of Trigastrotheca pentaphylla (L.) Thulin

paavaikkai ... My attempt is பாவைக்கை... Please validate.

Reference: OSADHI - Online Structural and Analytics based Database for Herbs of India - CSIR-NEIST

சீரகப் பூண்டு ... I have transcribed the name to cirakap-puntu ... Please validate.

Reference: Tamil names of Botanical names by Yercaud Ilango - a Google Book

Regards.

Dinesh

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks very very much, Vijayasankar ji, for this better version of paavai (bitter gourd) related name.

We will go with பாவைக்கீரை paavai-keerai (bitter greens) and drop the பாவைக்காய் பூண்டு paavaikkai poondu.

Will incorporate the name in the compilation shortly.

Regards.

Dinesh

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Vijayasankar Raman <vijay.b...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Tamil names of Molluga pentaphylla L. syn. of Trigastrotheca pentaphylla (L.) Thulin
To: Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com>

Yes Dinesh ji, that name has both fruit and greens together. Instead, the name "paavai-keerai" பாவைக்கீரை can be used to refer to "bitter greens" with a comparison to bitter gourd plant, i.e. paavai. 

"Bitter greens" can also be translated as kasappu keerai கசப்புக்கீரை, without specific reference to bittergourd.

On Sun, Oct 1, 2023, 11:22 PM Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, sorry, Vijayasankar ji.

பாவைக்காய் கீரை paavaikkai keerai is mix of fruit and greens.

Please ignore my query.

Regards.

Dinesh

On Mon, Oct 2, 2023 at 8:50 AM Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks again, Vijayasasankar ji.

Thus, would "பாவைக்காய் கீரை paavaikkai keerai" serve as a good name ?

Regards.

Dinesh

On Sun, Oct 1, 2023 at 11:36 PM Vijayasankar Raman <vijay.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

In Tamil, 'kai' or 'kaai' refers to fruit-vegetables or unripe fruits while 'keerai' is used for greens.

[Vijayasankar Raman]

Sounds good, Dinesh ji! I support your choice of name.

[Dinesh Valke]

Thanks very much, Vijayasankar ji !!!

Regards.

Dinesh