ID17032011PHK 1

[Pravin Kawale]

Hi,
Is it a fern?
Growing on tree trunk
Habitat: Hilly area of western ghat
At Mulshi,Pune
Thanks in advance

DSC03439.JPG
DSC03437.JPG

These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 1600 members & 70,000 messages on 30/5/11) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of around 5000 species)

[Vijayadas D]

It is an epiphytic Fern, rarely lithophytic

 

Pyrrosia sps.    P. longifolia or lanceolata

--

Vijayadas
Electro Saudi Services Ltd.        

Salwa Garden Village, PB -7210
Riyadh -11462 , KSA

[H S]

Yes Pyrrosia sp

i guess P. lanceolata

- H.S.

A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of
stone

[J.M. Garg]

A reply:

"I didn't see the other reply before I wrote.  But both those Pyrrosias mentioned have a long creeping rhizome with fronds far apart and not so long or twisted.  However one must soak the thing in a bucket of water for 24 hours to expand properly, and then press it.  If it were a Pyrrosia the underside is scaly (apart from in P. nuda), and the sori are much smaller and very crowded in comparison to the Lepisorus.  Aso the leaf in those species is a lot thicker and does not fold as much as in this Lepisorus and if it does fold, folds upward, not downward. 
     P. longifolia is not present in South India at all! - and has a much thicker leaf again and yet longer rhizome.   Only one dubious record of P. longifolia from India altogether has not yet been resolved - Singh & Panigrahi's (2005) report, of a single collection from Changlang, Arunachal Pradesh, but the specimen has been removed from Shillong herbarium and I am anxiously waiting for it to be returned so we can see if it is really P. longifolia. The authors agreed it was rather different from P. longifolia, a species present in S.E. Asia, but until I can see the specimen one doesn't know if the species might be present in India or not  - but the drawing doesn't look right to me.  Other records of P. longifolia in India are in error.
  Best wishes,
           Chris Fraser-Jenkins."

 

Thanks, Dr. Chris.

[J.M. Garg]

A reply:

"Well I agree it is one or 'tother! - and though hard to see, some bits of rhizome do look long.  But really it is very nearly impossible to see as the collector must soak and expand such a specimen before pressing it - all curled up means all hidden.
   Could he please soak a fertile leaf out in water and photo the sori, then we can easily know, Lepisorus - a single line of separate, rather large sori on each side of the midrib; Pyrrosia lanceolata or adnascens, a mass of close small sori towards the frond apex, not in separate lines.
    We need to see that, and I can agree that it could be either species in this curled-up state.
     Please let us know about that!?
            Chris F.-J."

 

Thanks, Dr. Chris.

[J.M. Garg]

Initial reply from Dr. Chris:

" Yes, that's a fern OK.  It is what many species of Lepisorus
 do during the dry season.  There are just two species in the south like that, L. nudus and L. amaurolepidus - both common.  In my opinion this is almost surely L. amaurolepidus, because the fronds are rather close together, whereas L. nudus has a longer rhizome with the fronds quite far apart.
        But you must confirm it by examining the rhizome with a X 10 lens, looking against the light, L. amaurolepidus rhizome scales have a solid dark-red basal central part, the rest being pale, quite wide - but those of L. nudus are more or less uniformly greyish-brown.
        Good searching!
One further question is about the status of L. amaurolepidus - it is tetraploid and one count for L. contortus is also tetraploid (but we need more counts and on more reliably identified specimens), both have fronds that can be narrower or wider and the scales and soral position etc. atre very similar indeed.  I am not yet fully confident to say it, but it looks to me that L. amaurolepidus may well be a synonym of L. contortus.  I had them both growing (have now lost amaurolepidus from S. India as last Winter we had no water) and they looked identical in every detail.
      Cheers,
            Chris F.-J., Kathmandu."

[J.M. Garg]

A reply from Vijayadas ji:

"Thanks,
 
  In lepisorus   sori will be bold and  visible even if the front folded
 
Sir, am I right ?"

[J.M. Garg]

A further reply:

"Well, yes, you could be right - for some specimens, but if the sori are a bit smallish and the frond is folded then they wouldn't often be visible.  When the frond is expanded they can easily be seen from the top side, but not often when in this dessicated state.  Actually I've tried expanding the photo to see if one can see anything of the sori from the top surface, but it looses its focus then.
Anyway - possibilities, possibilities, enough of speculation from me! - as Botanists we need proof of either possible identity.  Can the collector please now soak out a fertile frond in water and let it uncurl and expand, then photograph its underside, and we'll know then which of the two it is!  I'll be happy to change my mind when I see that!
Cheers, CRFJ."