Request for ID Areca sp - 040710RA1

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Rashida Atthar

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Jul 4, 2010, 10:05:44 AM7/4/10
to indian...@googlegroups.com
Request ID of this Areca sp. please, Thank you.

 

ate/Time :

 

19 June 2010- 9.00am

 

Location- Place, altitude and GPS:

 

Mumbai-private garden.

 

Habitat- garden/ urban/wild/type:

 

Garden

 

Plant Habit-tree/shrub/climber/herb:

 

Tree-trunk ringed below grey brown and smooth green above

 

Height/length:

 

9-10 ft.

 

 

Leaves-type/shape/size:

 

Feather leaved arching pointed

 

Inflorescence type /size:

 

----

 

Flowers-size/colour/calyx/bracts:

 

-----

 

Fruits type-shape/size/seeds:

 

On the bark, woody stalks,  ovoid green, yellow to red

 

Fragrance/odour/pollinator/uses  and so on:

 

-----

 
regards,

Rashida.

 


Areca sp. cluster of unripe fruits .JPG
Areca sp unripe fruits.JPG
Areca sp .fruits1.JPG
Areca sp. 3.JPG
Areca sp. 2.JPG
Areca sp leaves.JPG
Areca sp trunk..JPG

tanay bose

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Jul 4, 2010, 12:43:44 PM7/4/10
to Rashida Atthar, indian...@googlegroups.com
Areca catechu L. for me !!
Tanay


 


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Tanay Bose
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Dr. Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 11, 2010, 7:58:21 AM7/11/10
to efloraofindia
This I think is a Roystonea regia (Kunth) O.F.Cook., commonly planted
in the gardens sometimes incorrectly called as Bottle Palm.
Pankaj

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 11, 2010, 8:09:31 AM7/11/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Thanks Dr. Pankaj  for the possible ID. Can you please indicate the main distinguishing feature to recognise the same. 

regards,
Rashida. 

Dr. Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 11, 2010, 8:31:31 AM7/11/10
to efloraofindia
Thank you Ms. Rashida. I can surely understand your eagerness in
learnung more about the plant.
Keep it up!!

Roystonea : monoecious, thick and smooth trunk with distinct mark of
leaf bases, pinnate leaf.
regia: there are only 11 species of Roystonea in the world so not
difficult to differentiate it from the rest. Can be identified with a
bit of swollen trunk just below the crown which is light grey in
color, white flowers with pink anthers, drupes purple when ripe.

Pankaj

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 11, 2010, 8:42:30 AM7/11/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Ok, thanks, so one more colour remaining in the drupes. I thought red were the mature ones.

regards,
Rashida.

promila chaturvedi

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Jul 11, 2010, 10:13:04 AM7/11/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Dr. Kumar,
Roystonia regia does not have fruits, though it flowers when it is arround 30 year of age. One, in my house has got some sort of bloom. If it opens, I may be able to send a picture or two.
Promila

Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 11, 2010, 10:26:06 AM7/11/10
to promila chaturvedi, efloraofindia
Ms. Promila Chaturvedi
To my surprise, these palms flower almost every year almost in our
colony and school....I couldnt find a reference which says that it
flowers in 30 years....
Please do let me know if you come across any.
In many nursery these plants are being sold, but to my knowledge, in
general conditions, these plants never gives out branches too, to most
probably the plants on sale are from seeds.
Please do share more info on its flowering if you have.....
Regards
Pankaj

tanay bose

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Jul 11, 2010, 12:21:57 PM7/11/10
to Pankaj Kumar, promila chaturvedi, efloraofindia
Dear Promila Ji,
As said by Pankaj ji, I even could not find any reference which states that Royal palm flowers at 30 years of age. All available informations shows that it flowers and set fruits profusely and the mature purple fruits are used for  propagation of new plants .

Regards
Tanay

Pardeshi S.

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Jul 15, 2010, 5:34:34 AM7/15/10
to efloraofindia
Hello all
it is not Roystonea regia (Kunth) O.F.Cook.
it is
Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc. Philipp. J. Sci. 14: 329, 1919.
Synonym: Veitchia merrillii (Becc.) H. E. Moore Gentes Herb. 8: 501,
1957.
Common name: Manila palm, Merrill Palm.
a few trees of this has been planted in Rajbhawan, Mumbai.
Regards
Satish Pardeshi

On Jul 11, 9:21 pm, tanay bose <tanaybos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Promila Ji,
> As said by Pankaj ji, I even could not find any reference which states that
> Royal palm flowers at 30 years of age. All available informations shows that
> it flowers and set fruits profusely and the mature purple fruits are used
> for  propagation of new plants .
>
> Regards
> Tanay
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ms. Promila Chaturvedi
> > To my surprise, these palms flower almost every year almost in our
> > colony and school....I couldnt find a reference which says that it
> > flowers in 30 years....
> > Please do let me know if you come across any.
> > In many nursery these plants are being sold, but to my knowledge, in
> > general conditions, these plants never gives out branches too, to most
> > probably the plants on sale are from seeds.
> > Please do share more info on its flowering if you have.....
> > Regards
> > Pankaj
>
> > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 7:43 PM, promila chaturvedi
> > <thegardener.chaturv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Dr. Kumar,
> > > Roystonia regia does not have fruits, though it flowers when it is
> > arround
> > > 30 year of age. One, in my house has got some sort of bloom. If it opens,
> > > I may be able to send a picture or two.
> > > Promila
> > > On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Dr. Pankaj Kumar <
> > sahanipan...@gmail.com>

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 15, 2010, 9:45:20 AM7/15/10
to Pardeshi S., efloraofindia
Great Satish Pardeshi ji, this is the third possible ID for the tree! Request you to indicate the clinching characteristic please. Thanks.

regards,
Rashida.

promila chaturvedi

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Jul 15, 2010, 10:00:54 AM7/15/10
to Rashida Atthar, Pardeshi S., efloraofindia
Dear all the members,
I have this plant of Royal palm with me for more than 30 years. First in pot and for last 27 years it is in ground. In Delhi I have seen these old trees only on Syam Nath Marg opposite Old Delhi Railway station. On other places they are not so old. Never saw them in bloom though fish tail palm, when mature, blooms profusely here in Delhi. This year when I observed bloom on my tree I asked SARKARI HORTICULTURE AFSARS. I was told that it starts blooming arround 30 years of age. I am now waiting for the bloom to open.
Promila

satish pardeshi

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Jul 16, 2010, 1:07:26 AM7/16/10
to indiantreepix
Hello all and Rashida ji
I have identified this plant during my Research and got it Confirmed by Palm expert A.R. Kulkarni,  ex professor of Mumbai University. he has got specialist knowledge in Palms and has created Palm garden at Kalina Univeristy campus, Mumbai Univeristy, Santacruz. 
seee the differences in drupes of both species

Oreodoxa regia H.B.& K. Gen. & Sp. 1: 305, 1815; Cooke, Fl. Pres. Bombay 3: 321, 1958 (Repr.); Blatt. Palms Brit. India & Ceyl. 396, t. 73, 1978 (Repr.); Sharma et al, Fl. Mah. St. Monocot. 204, 1996.

Synonyms: Roystonia regia O. F. Cooke in Bailey Man. Cult. Pl. 173, 1949.

Common name: Cuban Royal palm, Bottle palm.

fruit a drupe, globose-obovoid, acute at apex, 1-1.5 cm long.


Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc. Philipp. J. Sci. 14: 329, 1919.

Synonym: Veitchia merrillii (Becc.) H. E. Moore Gentes Herb. 8: 501, 1957.

Common name: Manila palm, Merrill Palm.

drupe oblong-ovoid with accrescent calyx and corolla, olive green turns to orange and then to blood red, mesocarp orange pulpy, 1.8-3.5 x 1.8 cm 

http://toptropicals.com/cgi-bin/garden_catalog/cat.cgi >>>Adonidia merrillii and search

Regards

Satish Pardeshi

--
Satish Pardeshi
Plant Taxonomist
Mumbai, Pune

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 16, 2010, 3:51:40 AM7/16/10
to satish pardeshi, indiantreepix
Thanks a lot Satish ji. Perfectly matching. So I was correct in thinking the  mature fruits are the red ones after all. Feel so lucky to have got all the three colours of the drupes. Is this palm also there at the Kalina campus ? 

regards,
Rashida.

satish pardeshi

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Jul 16, 2010, 7:12:27 AM7/16/10
to Rashida Atthar, indiantreepix
Hello Rashida ji
This palm was only at Rajbhawan campus. i was lucky to get into rajbhawan and study it. it was planted abt 10-15 yeards back by one of the Governer's wife. it was reported by me as new record to Mumbai rather Maharashtra region.

Regards
Satish Pardeshi

Yazdy Palia

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Jul 16, 2010, 8:01:51 AM7/16/10
to Rashida Atthar, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Rashida Ji,
The very first time I looked at your pictures, I thought it was Areca (later on referring wikipedia, I agree with Mr. Tanay that it is Areca Catechu ).
The first three pictures definitely look like Areca Catechu, however when I had a look at the last picture I had my doubts. Having gone through the wikipidia site I think Tanay ji is right. Copying the link below.
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Areca+catechu&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364
I have quite a few of these palms and the fruits on the palms in your pictures are Areca Nuts.
Regards
Yazdy.

promila chaturvedi

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Jul 16, 2010, 8:36:51 AM7/16/10
to Yazdy Palia, Rashida Atthar, indian...@googlegroups.com
Yazdi Ji ,
I think your ID of the palm in question is correct.
Promila

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 16, 2010, 11:09:31 PM7/16/10
to satish pardeshi, indiantreepix
Thanks once again Satish ji. How nice to know your record findings and you did not even inform that earlier !. Congratulations, you are one more example of the quiet but accomplished individuals on this group. 

regards,
Rashida.

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 16, 2010, 11:12:46 PM7/16/10
to Yazdy Palia, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Yazdy ji  but  looking closely at the pics the trunk colour and markings not matching, the leaves are slightly broader and the tips not as acute as in my pics, the final colour of the drupes seems more orangish in Areca catechu whereas it is red in my pics. I would rule out Areca catechu.  

regards,
Rashida.


On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Yazdy Palia <yazdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 28, 2010, 10:35:50 AM7/28/10
to Yazdy Palia, indian...@googlegroups.com
I have only yesterday got the set of the 5th volume of Dr. Almeida's flora of Maharashtra which has covered palms.  Would like to share that this palm  is now known as Veitchia merrilli (Becc.)H. E. Moore. Origin of Philippine islands, it is cultivated in Hiranandani gardens,Powai,  Mumbai also.  

regards,
Rashida.  

Yazdy Palia

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Jul 28, 2010, 11:25:20 AM7/28/10
to Rashida Atthar, indian...@googlegroups.com
Dear Rashida Ji,
Many thanks for the effort and for identifying it correctly.
Regards
Yazdy.

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 28, 2010, 12:00:58 PM7/28/10
to Yazdy Palia, indian...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Yazdy ji. It was already correctly identified by Pardeshi ji, but it was the synonym. What I have mentioned is the current name as mentioned in the flora.

regards,
Rashida. 

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 28, 2010, 12:47:35 PM7/28/10
to efloraofindia
Thanks a lot Satish sir for the id and the information and my
apologies to all for the mistaken identity.
Regards
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 28, 2010, 12:55:04 PM7/28/10
to Dr Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Thanks Rashida ji
With your new set of books, we will surely get correct identity as well nomenclature of Plants from the region. Keep the good work on.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Dr Pankaj Kumar

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Jul 28, 2010, 1:32:28 PM7/28/10
to efloraofindia
I just found out from Kew that the accepted name is

Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc., Philipp. J. Sci. 14: 329 (1919).

syn: Veitchia merrillii (Becc.) H.E.Moore, Gentes Herb. 8: 501
(1957)......Note the double ' i ' .

Regards
Dr. Pankaj Kumar, WII.

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 28, 2010, 1:38:39 PM7/28/10
to Dr Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Yes GRIN also accepts that: Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc to be the accepted name.

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 29, 2010, 2:04:32 AM7/29/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Dr Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Sir spoke with Dr. Almeida today. Dr. Almeida informed that the naming is as per ' World Monograph of palms', and the earliest published name is valid.   However, he also said that if Kew  and Grin has accepted current  name as Adonidia merrilli than it may be correct.  He is in the process of   carrying out a major study of Palms in India, it is complex because most of the times flowers are not seen since they flower after long durations, and some do not flower at all.  

regards,
Rashida. 

Pardeshi S.

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Jul 29, 2010, 3:09:19 AM7/29/10
to efloraofindia
Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc. Philipp. J. Sci. 14: 329, 1919.
Synonym: Veitchia merrillii (Becc.) H. E. Moore Gentes Herb. 8: 501,
1957.
Common name: Manila palm, Merrill Palm.

Regards
Satish Pardeshi

On Jul 29, 11:04 am, Rashida Atthar <atthar.rash...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sir spoke with Dr. Almeida today. Dr. Almeida informed that the naming is as
> per ' World Monograph of palms', and the earliest published name is valid.
> However, he also said that if Kew  and Grin has accepted current  name as
> Adonidia merrilli than it may be correct.  He is in the process of
> carrying out a major study of Palms in India, it is complex because most of
> the times flowers are not seen since they flower after long durations, and
> some do not flower at all.
>
> regards,
> Rashida.
>
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes GRIN also accepts that: Adonidia merrillii (Becc.) Becc to be the
> > accepted name.
>
> > --
> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> > Retired  Associate Professor
> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> > Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
>

Rashida Atthar

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Jul 29, 2010, 3:14:48 AM7/29/10
to Pardeshi S., efloraofindia
one more synonym I forgot to mention earlier is Normanbya merrillii Bech., in philip. Jour. Sci. 4: 606, 1909.

regards,
Rashida.

Gurcharan Singh

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Jul 29, 2010, 3:47:51 AM7/29/10
to Rashida Atthar, Pardeshi S., efloraofindia
Thanks Rashida ji for updates.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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