ID021009phk1

21 views
Skip to first unread message

Pravin Kawale

unread,
Oct 2, 2009, 10:37:26 AM10/2/09
to indiantreepix
Hi,
ID asistance please
Herb from Sagargad,Alibag
Hieght up to 1mt.
Thanks in advance


DSC06946.JPG
DSC06947.JPG
DSC06949.JPG

These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
Try it out here: http://picasa.google.com/

DSC06946.JPG
DSC06947.JPG
DSC06949.JPG

Satish Phadke

unread,
Oct 2, 2009, 10:46:13 AM10/2/09
to Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix
I would have called it Vernonia cinerea except the flowers here appear to be solitary......
Satish Phadke

2009/10/2 Pravin Kawale <kawale...@gmail.com>



--

http:// satishphadke.blogspot.com

Dinesh Valke

unread,
Oct 2, 2009, 10:58:39 AM10/2/09
to Satish Phadke, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix
... ¿ Baccharoides species ?
Regards.

Neil Soares

unread,
Oct 2, 2009, 12:21:02 PM10/2/09
to indiantreepix, Pravin Kawale
Hi Pravin,
  It is the Purple Head [Phyllocephalum scrabridum].
                Regards,
                 Neil.

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Pravin Kawale <kawale...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pravin Kawale

unread,
Oct 3, 2009, 7:30:56 AM10/3/09
to Neil Soares, indiantreepix
Hi,Neilji,
It looks other than because
Purple head has both stem and leaves hairy
Pl.go through attachment 
Thanks


--
Pravin
Purple head.JPG

Neil Soares

unread,
Oct 3, 2009, 9:15:03 AM10/3/09
to Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix
Hi Pravin,
  The photograph here is of Baccharoides tenue / Phyllocephalum tenue / Centrantherum tenue and not the same as the Purple Head [Baccharoides scabridum / Phyllocephalum scrabridum] seen in your first photograph.
                       Regards,
                         Neil.

J.M. Garg

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 4:25:16 AM10/27/09
to Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Flowersofindia shows both of them as synonyms, while APNI shows them as different species as per links:
 
 
I think needs to be sorted out at FOI.
2009/10/3 Neil Soares <drneil...@yahoo.com>



--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 7:05:14 AM10/27/09
to J.M. Garg, Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Garg ji
Please note that IPNI (which is a common database for Index Kewensis, Australian Plant Names Index and Gray's Card Index) does not give any taxonomic judgement. It won't list whether the name is accepted one or a synonym. It is the GRIN Taxonomy page, Kew World Checklist (fragmentary at this stage), recent Floras and a few other websites which list synonymy.
 
Since the two names being discussed here were validated more recently (1981, 1982), may be Tabish ji or any other colleague to cite a publication where the two have been treated as synonyms.
 
 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45

J.M. Garg

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 8:06:31 AM10/27/09
to Gurcharan Singh, Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Hi, Singh ji,
Thanks for making us learn bit by bit.
 
I think it (APNI) also gives synonyms as one can see in the link for (Phyllocephalum scabridum ( DC. ) K.Kirkman):
 
Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta trichoclada DC. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
 
Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta triclada Link i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of)Triumfetta annua
 
And so & so on.
 
2009/10/27 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 10:04:06 AM10/27/09
to J.M. Garg, Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Garg ji
These are the basionyms on which the new combinations are based. Every name that has two authers one within parantheses (DC in this case) and one outside -Kirkman in this case, will have a basionym. The problem of synonyms comes when we are equating two differently described and typed names. (heterotypic synonyms).
clear=all>

J.M. Garg

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 10:14:02 AM10/27/09
to Gurcharan Singh, Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Hi, Singh ji.
You have missed the 2nd half of my mail reproduced again:
"It (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta indica Lam. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of)Triumfetta annua
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=FC662F5A0DA45BF33670F146F6F5BA4E?id=835846-1&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditSimplePlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DFC662F5A0DA45BF33670F146F6F5BA4E%3Ffind_wholeName%3DTriumfetta%2Bindica%26output_format%3Dnormal
 
Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta trichoclada DC. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=836012-1&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditSimplePlantNameSearch.do%3Ffind_wholeName%3DTriumfetta%2Btrichoclada%26output_format%3Dnormal
 
Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta triclada Link i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
Thus if Phyllocephalum tenue ( Clarke ) Narayana) is syn. of Phyllocephalum scabridum ( DC. ) K.Kirkman), it will be indicate the current name as (=scabridum) under notes, in the APNI link of Phyllocephalum tenue ( Clarke ) Narayana) at
 
I hope I am clear now.

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 10:36:38 AM10/27/09
to J.M. Garg, Neil Soares, Pravin Kawale, indiantreepix, Tabish, Dinesh Valke
Yes Garg ji
It is not for nothing that I call you and Tabish ji as expert taxonomists.
2009/10/27 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>
clear=all>

--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en

Tabish

unread,
Oct 27, 2009, 1:42:17 PM10/27/09
to indiantreepix
Gurcharan ji, thanks for your kind remarks! I would rather not carry
the burden of the taxononmist tag! :-) It would be more reasonable to
call me an informed layman.
Coming to Phyllocephalum scabridum, I don't remember now where I
picked up this information about Phyllocephalum tenue being a synonym
from. I doesn't seem to be right. Those were the early days of FOI
when we were not aware of IPNI and GRIN.
- Tabish

On Oct 27, 7:36 pm, "Gurcharan Singh" <sin...@sify.com> wrote:
> Yes Garg ji
> It is not for nothing that I call you and Tabish ji as expert taxonomists.
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi
> Indiahttp://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: J.M. Garg
>   To: Gurcharan Singh
>   Cc: Neil Soares ; Pravin Kawale ; indiantreepix ; Tabish ; Dinesh Valke
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:44 PM
>   Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:21649] Re: ID021009phk1
>
>   Hi, Singh ji.
>   You have missed the 2nd half of my mail reproduced again:
>   "It (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta indica Lam. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of)Triumfetta annua
>  http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=FC662F5A0DA4...
>
>   Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta trichoclada DC. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
>  http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=836012-1&back_page=%...
>
>   Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta triclada Link i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
>  http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=836013-1&back_page=%...
>
>   And so & so on."
>
>   Thus if Phyllocephalum tenue ( Clarke ) Narayana) is syn. of Phyllocephalum scabridum ( DC. ) K.Kirkman), it will be indicate the current name as (=scabridum) under notes, in the APNI link of Phyllocephalum tenue ( Clarke ) Narayana) at
>  http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=16428332EF7A...
>
>   I hope I am clear now.
>
>   2009/10/27 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>
>
>     Garg ji
>     These are the basionyms on which the new combinations are based. Every name that has two authers one within parantheses (DC in this case) and one outside -Kirkman in this case, will have a basionym. The problem of synonyms comes when we are equating two differently described and typed names. (heterotypic synonyms).
>
>     Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>     Associate Professor
>     SGTB Khalsa College
>     University of Delhi, Delhi
>     India
>    http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: J.M. Garg
>       To: Gurcharan Singh
>       Cc: Neil Soares ; Pravin Kawale ; indiantreepix ; Tabish ; Dinesh Valke
>       Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:36 PM
>       Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:21649] Re: ID021009phk1
>
>       Hi, Singh ji,
>       Thanks for making us learn bit by bit.
>
>       I think it (APNI) also gives synonyms as one can see in the link for (Phyllocephalum scabridum ( DC. ) K.Kirkman):
>      http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=C04E4D094FA6...
>
>       It (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta indica Lam. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of)Triumfetta annua
>      http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=FC662F5A0DA4...
>
>       Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta trichoclada DC. i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of) Triumfetta annua
>      http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=836012-1&back_page=%...
>
>       Similarly, it (APNI) also gives current name e.g. for Triumfetta triclada Link i.e. it indicates its current name to be (i.e. it being a syn. of)Triumfetta annua
>      http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do?id=836013-1&back_page=%...
>
>       And so & so on.
>
>       2009/10/27 Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com>
>
>         Garg ji
>         Please note that IPNI (which is a common database for Index Kewensis, Australian Plant Names Index and Gray's Card Index) does not give any taxonomic judgement. It won't list whether the name is accepted one or a synonym. It is the GRIN Taxonomy page, Kew World Checklist (fragmentary at this stage), recent Floras and a few other websites which list synonymy.
>
>         Since the two names being discussed here were validated more recently (1981, 1982), may be Tabish ji or any other colleague to cite a publication where the two have been treated as synonyms.
>
>         Dr. Gurcharan Singh
>         Associate Professor
>         SGTB Khalsa College
>         University of Delhi, Delhi
>         India
>        http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From: J.M. Garg
>           To: Neil Soares
>           Cc: Pravin Kawale ; indiantreepix ; Tabish ; Dinesh Valke
>           Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:55 PM
>           Subject: [indiantreepix:21649] Re: ID021009phk1
>
>           Flowersofindia shows both of them as synonyms, while APNI shows them as different species as per links:
>          http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=16428332EF7A...(APNI- Phyllocephalum tenue ( Clarke ) Narayana)
>
>          http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=C04E4D094FA6...(APNI- Phyllocephalum scabridum ( DC. ) K.Kirkman)
>
>          http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Purple%20Heads.html(FOI)
>
>           I think needs to be sorted out at FOI.
>
>           2009/10/3 Neil Soares <drneilsoa...@yahoo.com>
>
>                   Hi Pravin,
>                     The photograph here is of Baccharoides tenue / Phyllocephalum tenue / Centrantherum tenue and not the same as the Purple Head [Baccharoides scabridum / Phyllocephalum scrabridum] seen in your first photograph.
>                                          Regards,
>                                            Neil.
>
>                   --- On Sat, 10/3/09, Pravin Kawale <kawale.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>                     From: Pravin Kawale <kawale.pra...@gmail.com>
>
>                     Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:19995] ID021009phk1
>                     To: "Neil Soares" <drneilsoa...@yahoo.com>
>                     Cc: "indiantreepix" <indian...@googlegroups.com>
>                     Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 5:00 PM
>
>                     Hi,Neilji,
>                     It looks other than because
>                     Purple head has both stem and leaves hairy
>                     Pl.go through attachment
>                     Thanks
>
>                     On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Neil Soares <drneilsoa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>                             Hi Pravin,
>                               It is the Purple Head [Phyllocephalum scrabridum].
>                                             Regards,
>                                              Neil.
>
>                             --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Pravin Kawale <kawale.pra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>                               From: Pravin Kawale <kawale.pra...@gmail.com>
>                               Subject: [indiantreepix:19995] ID021009phk1
>                               To: "indiantreepix" <indian...@googlegroups.com>
>                               Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 8:07 PM
>
>                               Hi,
>                               ID asistance please
>                               Herb from Sagargad,Alibag
>                               Hieght up to 1mt.
>                               Thanks in advance
>
>                               DSC06946.JPG
>                               DSC06947.JPG
>                               DSC06949.JPG
>
>                               These pictures were sent with Picasa, from Google.
>                               Try it out here:http://picasa.google.com/
>
>                               --
>                               Pravin
>
>           --
>
>           With regards,
>           J.M.Garg (jmga...@gmail.com)
>          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
>           'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
>           Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise):http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
>           For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en
>
>       --
>       With regards,
>       J.M.Garg (jmga...@gmail.com)
>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
>       'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
>       Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages