Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Respected members,

Please help to confirm this species of Trichosanthes .

Trichosanthes kirilowii ?

Photographed in Kullu District, Himachal Pradesh

Altitude - 1400meters asl

Dated -  29June2018

Regards

Ashutosh Sharma

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji 

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[Saroj Kasaju]

I guess correct ID !

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichosanthes_kirilowii

Thank you 

Saroj Kasaju 

[D.S Rawat]

Interesting species.

If it is T. kirilowii it is new for India. It is not mentioned by Renner & Pandey (2012) in India.

Image of this species are available in Tropicos at- http://www.tropicos.org/Name/9201111?tab=images

DSRawat Pantnagar

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Rawat ji.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Saroj Kasaju ji.

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Rawat sir.

[J.M. Garg]

Why not Trichosanthes tricuspidata Lour. ?

To me appears close as per images and details herein. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Date: 5 July 2018 at 22:23
Subject: [efloraofindia:299212] Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Garg sir I was also thinking of same earlier but here leaves are papery upto 7 lobed unlike Trichosanthes tricuspidata where leaves are 3-5 lobed.

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Also in our plant the leaves are deeply lobed which looks close to the herbarium images given in the link.
Here's the link http://www.tropicos.org/Image/100188347

[J.M. Garg]

I find lot of posts in efi site, where leaves look closer to your images. I think if you go through all the posts from efi site page, it will give a better picture. 

On Mon 16 Jul, 2018, 7:37 AM ashutoshsharma11sn, <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir I was also thinking of same earlier but here leaves are papery upto 7 lobed unlike Trichosanthes tricuspidata where leaves are 3-5 lobed.

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[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Garg sir, I have already gone through the page and I have found that the leaf of Trichosanthes tricuspidata is very much variable and I think you may be right though I will try to get it fruit by next month , that may help to confirm.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji.

Also check the calyx/ bracts in both the species. I think these should be different. 

On Tue 17 Jul, 2018, 4:12 PM ashutoshsharma11sn, <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir, I have already gone through the page and I have found that the leaf of Trichosanthes tricuspidata is very much variable and I think you may be right though I will try to get it fruit by next month , that may help to confirm.

[J.M. Garg]

While going through Flora of Bhutan, I found that Trichosanthes tricuspidata is not mentioned, while T. lepiniana and T. wallichiana are mentioned.

Checklist of Nepal, considers Trichosanthes lepiniana (Naudin) Cogn. as a syn. of Trichosanthes tricuspidata Lour.

Catalogue of Life considers both as different as per Trichosanthes lepiniana (Naudin) Cogn.

I found the following keys in Flora of China:

29 (27)	Leaves leathery		(30)
+	Leaves membranous or papery		(31)
30 (29)	Bracts suborbicular, margin lacerate; calyx segments narrowly ovate, margin laciniate; leaves suborbicular.		17 T. lepiniana
+	Bracts obovate-oblong, margin dentate; calyx segments narrowly lanceolate, margin dentate; leaves ovate-cordate.		26 T. tricuspidata
31 (29)	Leaves papery.		21 T. laceribractea
+	Leaves membranous		(32)
32 (31)	Leaf blade suborbicular, deeply palmately 5-7-lobed; bract margin crenulate; calyx segments ca. 15 mm, entire.		15 T. wallichiana
+	Leaf blade orbicular-cordate or broadly ovate-cordate, unlobed or irregularly 2- or 3(-5)-lobed; bract margin lobulate with linear- lanceolate lobes; calyx segments ca. 10 mm, entire or serrate.		16 T. fissibracteata

In view, your plant may be T. lepiniana. Pl. check.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 at 22:23
Subject: [efloraofindia:299212] Trichosanthes kirilowii for confirmation
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. also see FOC illustration and GBIF specimens for T. lepiniana

Also see GBIF specimens for T. wallichiana 

[J.M. Garg]

Both species are closely related as per flora of Bhutan and Keys in Flora of Bhutan can be seen at Trichosanthes

I am reproducing details from it as below:

7. T. wallichiana (Seringe) Wight; T. multiloba Clarke
Leaves suborbicular in outline, 10 - 20 x 10 - 20cm, deeply 3 — 9-lobed, lobes oblong or lanceolate, acuminate, base rounded, margin denticulate or dentate, coarsely pubescent above, glands clustered between veins on lower surface; petioles 3 — 10cm; tendrils 2 — 3-fid. Male peduncles 15 - 35cm, pubescent, 6 -12—flowered; bracts broadly ovate, 2.5 - 3cm, base sheathing, toothed above; calyx tube 5 - 5.5cm, 12- 14mm wide at apex, teeth 1- 1.5 x 0.5 - O.6cm; petals obovate, 3 - 4cm; anthers 12 — 13 x 3mm. Female peduncles 2 - 4cm; ovary oblong. Fruit oblong-ovoid, c 8 x 5cm, reddish; seeds squarish, 15 - 18mm, 7mm thick.
Bhutan: C - Punakha and Tashigang districts, N - Upper Mo Chu and Upper Kuru Chu districts; Darjeeling: widespread; Sikkim: Lachen. In mixed rain forest, 240- 2440m. July - August.
8. T. lepiniana (Naudin) Cogniaux. Nep: Indrenee
Similar to T. wallichiana but leaves more shallowly 3 — 5-lobed, 13 x 15cm, punctate above at first, later densely scaly along veins and with a few glands in vein axils beneath; tendrils 2 - 3-fid. Male peduncles 15 - 20cm; bracts obovate, 4.5 x 3cm, sheathing at base, fimbriate above; calyx tube 5cm, 5 - 7mm wide at apex, teeth lanceolate, 1.5 x 0.5cm; petals obovate, 2 — 3cm, laciniate; female peduncles 1.5 - 3cm. Fruit scarlet, ovoid, 8 x 6cm; seeds blackish, oblong, 15 x 7 x 2.5mm.
Bhutan: S — Deothang district (Morong), C - Tongsa district (Shamgong) and Mongar district (Kori La); Darjeeling: Rishap, Darjeeling, Lebong. In warm mixed forests, 1200- 2l00m. May - August.
Flowers open at night.

Following this and GBIF specimens and no. of lobes, it may turn out to be T. wallichiana (Seringe) Wight.

[J.M. Garg]

For Trichosanthes wallichiana (Seringe) Wight, Flora of China gives as below:

Male raceme 6-15-flowered at apex; peduncle stout, 10-20(-30) cm, grooved, puberulent; bracts broadly ovate, 2-3 cm, crenulate, slightly puberulent, multiveined; calyx tube ca. 5 × 1 cm; segments ca. 1.5 × 0.4 cm, entire.

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji,

May I have your views in the matter pl.

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Respected Garg ji,

After checking the gbif herbarium images and descriptions in FOC. 

I am of the opinion that our plant is Trichosanthes wallichiana.

As leaves are deeply palmate, papery, crenulate with 5-7 lobes. 

Moreover Trichosanthes wallichiana is also mentioned in Flora of Himachal Pradesh.

Best regards 

Ashutosh Sharma 

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Ashutosh ji 

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J. M. Garg

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[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji,

May I request you for the keys between the two in your books.

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[Ashutosh Sharma]

Garg ji only T. wallichiana is mentioned in the book Flora of Himachal Pradesh moreover it doesn't have any good keys. However i am attaching the image of its page. 

Best regards 

Ashutosh Sharma 

[Saroj Kasaju]

Flora of Bhutan:

7. T. wallichiana (Seringe) Wight; T. multiloba Clarke
Leaves suborbicular in outline, 10 - 20 x 10 - 20cm, deeply 3 —9-lobed, lobes

oblong or lanceolate, acuminate, base rounded, margin denticulate or dentate, coarsely pubescent above, glands clustered between veins on lower surface; petioles 3 — 10cm; tendrils 2 — 3-fid. Male peduncles 15 - 35cm, pubescent, 6 - l2—flowered;bractsbroadlyovate,2.5- 3cm,basesheathing,toothedabove;calyx tube5- 5.5cm, 12- 14mmwideatapex,teeth1- 1.5x0.5- O.6cm;petalsobovate,

3 - 4cm; anthers 12 — 13 x 3mm. Female peduncles 2 - oblong-ovoid, c 8 x 5cm, reddish; seeds squarish, 15 - Bhutan: C - Punakha and Tashigang districts, N -

4cm; ovary oblong. Fruit

18mm, 7mm thick. Upper Mo Chu and Upper

Kuru Chu districts; Darjeeling: widespread; Sikkim: Lachen. In mixed rain forest, 240- 2440m. July - August.

Leaves coarsely pubescent ................................................. 7. T. wallichiana

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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