Digitization of herbarium

25 views
Skip to first unread message

Rajendra Shinde

unread,
Jan 12, 2010, 12:40:12 PM1/12/10
to indiantreepix Indian
Hello,

I am looking for a paper published in Taxon May 2009 on digitization of herbarium by Dr. Veena Chandra of FRI.

If anyone subscribes the same, can someone xerox and send me ? 

Thanking you in advance.

Rajendra

--
Dr. Rajendra D. Shinde,
Director, Council of International Programmes,
& Reader in Botany
St. Xavier's College,
(University of Mumbai)
Mumbai 400001.
India.
Off. Tel. +91-22-2262 0662 ext 356
Cell : 9819100131

Dr. Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Jan 12, 2010, 1:17:37 PM1/12/10
to efloraofindia
Respected Dr. Shinde,
I couldnt find any articles by Dr. V. Chandra in Taxon May 2009 issue.
I am pretty sure, because I have one of my own article in that issue,
co-authored by Dr. G.S.Rawat and Dr. J.F.Veldkamp.
If you could specify properly then I can try to check from my friends,
if they can get the article.
Regards
Pankaj

J.M. Garg

unread,
Feb 17, 2010, 7:08:56 AM2/17/10
to efloraofindia, Rajendra Shinde, Dr. Pankaj Kumar

Forwarding again for assistance pl.

Earlier relevant feedback:

“Respected Dr. Shinde,

Pankaj”



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.




--
With regards,
J.M.Garg (jmg...@gmail.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
Image Resource of more than a thousand species of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg
For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- Efloraofindia:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Feb 17, 2010, 9:09:44 AM2/17/10
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Rajendra Shinde
I think i forwarded the required article to the concerned person already.
Regards
Oankaj

Rajendra Shinde

unread,
Feb 18, 2010, 11:48:43 AM2/18/10
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Dear Mr. Garg, Pankaj,
Thanks for your email. I had got this article. Some one from Korea emailed me the same. (I had put in the request on IAAT groups.). Now I am collecting info on inverted high resolution A3 size scanners. If you could find anything, please let me know.
I am attaching this for others here. 

Regards and Thanks,

Rajendra
DIGITIZATION_OF_THE_DEHRADUN.pdf

Swagat

unread,
Feb 19, 2010, 9:01:03 AM2/19/10
to Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
Dear Sir,
 
here you will find some more information...
 
 
 
 
 
 
Regards,
 
~Swagat
9223217568 / 9422317979
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2010/2/18 Rajendra Shinde <rdsh...@gmail.com>



--
'I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; I will not refuse to do the something I can do.' - Helen Keller

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 12:31:56 AM2/20/10
to Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
For some time I was thinking of initiating a thread on digitising herbarium specimens, but was reluctant because whenever there is mention of digital herbarium, there is always mention of a scanner. I have worked with scanners (though not high end ones), but always find a good digital SLR camera giving very good results. I had started this with old photographs in our family albums, and when I thought of digitising my personal and College herbarium specimens, I found Digital SLR camera much more handy and useful. Today I got this encouragement from MBLWHOI Library Digital Herbarium.

"Specimens too bulky or fragile to be scanned will be photographed with a digital camera" 

Personally I feel Digital SLR camera is much more useful, as it saves a lot of time as compared to a scanner. My question is if Digital SLR camera can give good results with fragile and bulky specimens, and is much more faster than a scanner, why not to use it in routine procedures.
   May someone with good experience with both can give better opinion.



-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Balkar Arya

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 11:02:50 AM2/20/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, Dr. Pankaj Kumar
I too agree with Dr Gurcharan Singh ji, i have tried to scan some herbarium specimens of ferns collected from Manipur with a high end scanner but not good results. Images of thick specimens were not even in acceptable form. With Digital SLR we can control many things like lighting etc to clarify every detail. I have tried this with Fujifilm Digital SLR and got good results. Results will be better with large optical zoom camera because it will give more indepth in closeups also.

Dr Balkar Singh

Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 11:09:31 AM2/20/10
to Balkar Arya, Gurcharan Singh, Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
I replied this on Indian Angiosperm Taxonomy group on yahoo and copying pasting the same thing here....hope this will be taken in good spirits......


With due respects to all the seniors and friends, I just wanted to put up my view, that, there is a difference between 'digital herbarium' and 'digital image'. What you are taking from a digital camera is a digital image because the size of the image is not regulated. The picture that you are taking from a scanner, you fix it at 100% and the size what of the image you get is the actual size of the herbarium sheet. So just need to calibrate, and then you can even take measurements on the picture itself. There are few ideal digital herbaria available on the internet, where the image is attached with a software with which you can take measurements online too. Such facility is lacking in most of the other dig. herb.!
When you take multiple shots of the plant concerned from different angles and details and then arrange it in a systematic manner, then it is called an 'illustration' .

So for your convenience and for your records you can always have digital images and illustrations, yes offcourse it is convenient!

Secondly, when you take a picture through digital camera, it is likely that the image gets distorted on the corners, and you dont get the actualy rectangular image, so you cant take or claim to have taken proper measurements using those images.

Regards

Dr. Pankaj Kumar

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 11:38:11 AM2/20/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Balkar Arya, Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Dear Pankaj ji
I did not know that Pankaj Sahni of  Indian Angiosperm Taxonomy group is our Dr. Pankaj Kumar.
The reply I gave there is reproduced here. I have been repeatedly requesting members not to underestimate others knowledge.

 Dear Mr Sahni
It is healthy to present ones views, but definitely not to think that others on the group don't know the difference between digital image and digital herbarium. We are here discussing the relative merits of a scanner and digital SLR camera and not to comment on others knowledge.
      Whereas  it seems reasonable to think that because centered position of camera lens, centre and edges of the herbarium may not focussed equally, I think high resolution SLR and focussing taking care of depth of focus can override this handicap. As for actual size criterian is concerned, I suppose all images, whether created through Scanner or Digital camera ultimately get reduced on digital screen of computer, and actual size would be meaningful if scale is placed or created along side. I don't find any difference in this aspect.
      I have tried to find distinction between Virtual herbarium (term used intitially) and digital herbarium, and find latter to be now the preferred term for collection of digital images, whether through scanner or digital camera. 
       Waiting to get more information  
-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 


Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 11:50:43 AM2/20/10
to Gurcharan Singh, Balkar Arya, Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Respected Gurcharan Sir,

Seems I have been making enemies more than friends. Frankly speaking, I never underestimated your knowledge on anything. I really admire your patience for every thing on this group through which I know you...may be I wont be able to make you believe because I never want others to believe me. Its upto them, if they dont then I am not loosing anything....

Some people have this self made impression of mine, for which I cant help.

Here is another reply form me there.... I will surely try to share some sample pics from our scanner.

PLUS: Just incase you have heard of DRUM SCANNERS, that is supposed to give best results, much better than the FLATBED SCANNERS which uses CCD censors. But they are very costly.

------------------
Respected Gurcharan Sir
No, you cannot override the abberation caused by a SLR lens towards the edges. One simple way to experiment is to take a picture of a graph paper and see towards the edges.
One way to minimise the abberation is taking pictures from a distance. Like keep the image on the central 1/9th part of the viewfinder and try. But images will be comparatively smaller, 1/9th of the original picture size from the particular camera.
Regards
Pankaj
---------------

Just for your information, we have this scanner at our office for A3 sized herbarium sheets "EPSON EXPRESSION 10000XL" and it works out well. I have tried it myself. I tried it on smaller flowers. There is an option of focussing the lens too in this, so you can get good results. I will try to post some pics from it....hopefully you all will like.

But sure there should be much better scanners available in market as the technology advances day by day. 

Regards

Pankaj

-------------------





Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 12:13:54 PM2/20/10
to Pankaj Kumar, Balkar Arya, Swagat, Rajendra Shinde, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Pankaj ji

When I replied on Indian Angiosperm Taxonomy Group, I did not know it was you. So my response was just natural, and not based on any preformed opinion. Pankaj ji, I admire your knowledge of Indian Flora and orchids in particular, and I sincerely want that you serve the nation and earn more friends. I have just retired from active service, and I wish you were there in those farewell parties. I want you to earn more and more friends, because you have a long career before you. Please don't say or write things which can offend others, and I know through private communications, you have earned many. Here are few of mine observations:

Whenever one starts "With due respects to all the seniors and friends", something offensive will follow.

We should avoid using phrases which give impression that others don't know something, otherwise there was no idea writing "there is a difference between 'digital herbarium' and 'digital image'.". and that in a group consisting of taxonomists of repute.

Just incase you have heard of DRUM SCANNERS-------another of your comments above which shows others don't know what you know. What made you think, I have not heard or know about DRUM Scanners. 

I wish you avoid such comments, and I am sure you will have more friends and no enemies on the group. You have a long career before you, and I want you to be a very successful taxonomist.

 

-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

,

Dr. Pankaj Kumar

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 12:35:45 PM2/20/10
to efloraofindia
Respected Gurcharan Sir,

When I am responding to a long conversation, I usually write, "with
due respects" because most of the previous replies are from senior
persons like you.
Secondly, when I wrote "just incase you have heard of drum scanners"
my emphasis was not on this line but the following sentence which
says, "that is supposed to give best results, much better than the
FLATBED SCANNERS which uses CCD censors. But they are very costly.".
Frankly this sentence was not even meant to you personally but to all,
and I am sure many doesnt know abt drum scanners.

Sir I do wish I was there in your farewell, because the fact is, I was
there in DU only that day, met Dr. Babbar and Dr. A.K.Pandey too. Went
there to check Dr. Babbar's orchid collection and help him in some
unidentified Orchids.

But I apologize for my wordings but my feeling were never rude for you
or anyone. I will try to maintain the dignity of both communities.

And thanks for all your good wishes.

Regards
Pankaj

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 20, 2010, 12:44:15 PM2/20/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
Pankaj ji
Please don't mind my frank observations. My only wish is that whether communicating with seniors or juniors alike, we should avoid sentences which can cause misunderstanding. I have never believed in juniors or seniors. If we give respect to others, we get it doubled.


-- 
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

Gurcharan Singh

unread,
Feb 21, 2010, 1:37:27 PM2/21/10
to Dr. Pankaj Kumar, efloraofindia
I have received two responses from TAXACOM, both supporting the use of DSLR. Here is the latest one:

We (USF) routinely use a DSLR camera for herbarium specimens. We use a high
F-number to keep bulky specimens in focus, a high ISO, and two diffused
flashes. Once setup (with the camera on a stand), the process is a breeze.

Alan Franck, Ph.D. candidate
Herbarium Assistant
Dept. of Cell Biology, Microbiology, and Molecular Biology
BSF 218
University of South Florida
Tampa, Florida 33620-5150
1(813)974-7602

Now I feel confident in having opted for DSLR for herbarium specimens.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages