Submission of Hibiscus hirtus

[Lalithamba Avadhanam]

Dear all

I have observed Hibiscus hirtus placed in efi is Hibiscus micranthus (Ref. eflora karnataka; again the description given does not match; It is a rather rare plant; leaves trilobate; hence I am adding description with images captured in wild at Velugonda hills of Eastern ghats

Hibiscus hirtus L., Sp. Pl. 694. 1753. 

Ver.names: Lesser mallow orange (Eng.) Nityamalli నిత్యమల్లె  (Tel.) 

Family: Malvaceae

Description:

Herbs, perennial, up to 2 m tall; stems much branched, appressed-stellate-setulose. Leaves alternate; petiole 0.5-4cm long; lamina ovate-lanceolate, 4-6 × 2-3 cm, shallowly 3 lobed, sparsely to fairly densely stellate-hispid on both surfaces, apex acute, margin serrate, base obtuse. Flowers 1-2cm in diam.,  white; peduncle articulated just below the calyx. Epicalyx lobes 6-7, 5-10 mm long, filiform, stiff. Calyx stellate-setulose; lobes up to 8-9 × 1•5 mm., linear-lanceolate. Corolla 1.5-2cm across, ovate,  white. Staminal column shorter than petals. Ovary globose; style divided above the stamina column, stigmas 5, capitate. Capsule 9 mm in diam., subglobose, minutely pubescent. Seeds reniform, with white silky floss.  

Habitat & location: Rare in hills. 

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Lalithamba ji.

I will shortly look into it. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Lalithamba ji.

I think your posted plant seems to be Hibiscus micranthus as per images herein and as per keys in BSI Flora of India

There are many varieties as per http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/taxonList.action?id=5689&type=4

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Lalithamba ji. 

On Mon 9 Apr, 2018, 8:45 PM Lalithamba Avadhanam, <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

In H.micranthus flowers are solitary usually arise in leaf axils , Epicalyx shorter than calyx lobes

In H.hirtus flowers arise in axils of reduced leaves in racemose manner (upper leaves normally not lobed) fully developed leaves more than 3 cm in diam, epicalyx longer than calyx segments

A.Lalithamba 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg ji 

the attached plant is Hibiscus micranthus, (H.micranthus produces white and pink flowers it is Syn of H.ovalifolius(Forsk.)Vahl, 

Leaves simple less than 2cm in diam, in H.micranthus, In H.hirtus leaves partite or lobed(Please observe 2 specimens) epicalyx shorter than calyx, plants hard, stellate hairs short(not as soft as H.Hirtus); in white variety of  H.micranthus the corolla is reflexed

in H.hrus epicalyx simple, seeds cottony, plants bushy, soft hairy

(It is not the colour of the flower that determines the species)

It is as per Gamble, Flora A.P By T.Pullaiah, 

based on these books and after cross check at BSI I have identified

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 6:33 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Lalithamba ji.

I think your posted plant seems to be Hibiscus micranthus as per images herein and as per keys in BSI Flora of India

There are many varieties as per http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/taxonList.action?id=5689&type=4

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: 30 March 2018 at 13:03
Subject: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear all

I have observed Hibiscus hirtus placed in efi is Hibiscus micranthus (Ref. eflora karnataka; again the description given does not match; It is a rather rare plant; leaves trilobate; hence I am adding description with images captured in wild at Velugonda hills of Eastern ghats

Hibiscus hirtus L., Sp. Pl. 694. 1753. 

Ver.names: Lesser mallow orange (Eng.) Nityamalli నిత్యమల్లె  (Tel.) 

Family: Malvaceae

Description:

Herbs, perennial, up to 2 m tall; stems much branched, appressed-stellate-setulose. Leaves alternate; petiole 0.5-4cm long; lamina ovate-lanceolate, 4-6 × 2-3 cm, shallowly 3 lobed, sparsely to fairly densely stellate-hispid on both surfaces, apex acute, margin serrate, base obtuse. Flowers 1-2cm in diam.,  white; peduncle articulated just below the calyx. Epicalyx lobes 6-7, 5-10 mm long, filiform, stiff. Calyx stellate-setulose; lobes up to 8-9 × 1•5 mm., linear-lanceolate. Corolla 1.5-2cm across, ovate,  white. Staminal column shorter than petals. Ovary globose; style divided above the stamina column, stigmas 5, capitate. Capsule 9 mm in diam., subglobose, minutely pubescent. Seeds reniform, with white silky floss.  

Habitat & location: Rare in hills. 

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[J.M. Garg]

Yes, this is also micranthus.Calyx and epicalyx are the key characters. Pl. go through all posts in efi site, things will be more clear. 

On Mon 9 Apr, 2018, 8:45 PM Lalithamba Avadhanam, <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

In H.micranthus flowers are solitary usually arise in leaf axils , Epicalyx shorter than calyx lobes

In H.hirtus flowers arise in axils of reduced leaves in racemose manner (upper leaves normally not lobed) fully developed leaves more than 3 cm in diam, epicalyx longer than calyx segments

A.Lalithamba 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg ji 

the attached plant is Hibiscus micranthus, (H.micranthus produces white and pink flowers it is Syn of H.ovalifolius(Forsk.)Vahl, 

Leaves simple less than 2cm in diam, in H.micranthus, In H.hirtus leaves partite or lobed(Please observe 2 specimens) epicalyx shorter than calyx, plants hard, stellate hairs short(not as soft as H.Hirtus); in white variety of  H.micranthus the corolla is reflexed

in H.hrus epicalyx simple, seeds cottony, plants bushy, soft hairy

(It is not the colour of the flower that determines the species)

It is as per Gamble, Flora A.P By T.Pullaiah, 

based on these books and after cross check at BSI I have identified

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 6:33 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Lalithamba ji.

I think your posted plant seems to be Hibiscus micranthus as per images herein and as per keys in BSI Flora of India

There are many varieties as per http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/taxonList.action?id=5689&type=4

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: 30 March 2018 at 13:03
Subject: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear all

I have observed Hibiscus hirtus placed in efi is Hibiscus micranthus (Ref. eflora karnataka; again the description given does not match; It is a rather rare plant; leaves trilobate; hence I am adding description with images captured in wild at Velugonda hills of Eastern ghats

Hibiscus hirtus L., Sp. Pl. 694. 1753. 

Ver.names: Lesser mallow orange (Eng.) Nityamalli నిత్యమల్లె  (Tel.) 

Family: Malvaceae

Description:

Herbs, perennial, up to 2 m tall; stems much branched, appressed-stellate-setulose. Leaves alternate; petiole 0.5-4cm long; lamina ovate-lanceolate, 4-6 × 2-3 cm, shallowly 3 lobed, sparsely to fairly densely stellate-hispid on both surfaces, apex acute, margin serrate, base obtuse. Flowers 1-2cm in diam.,  white; peduncle articulated just below the calyx. Epicalyx lobes 6-7, 5-10 mm long, filiform, stiff. Calyx stellate-setulose; lobes up to 8-9 × 1•5 mm., linear-lanceolate. Corolla 1.5-2cm across, ovate,  white. Staminal column shorter than petals. Ovary globose; style divided above the stamina column, stigmas 5, capitate. Capsule 9 mm in diam., subglobose, minutely pubescent. Seeds reniform, with white silky floss.  

Habitat & location: Rare in hills. 

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[J.M. Garg]

In your these images, I clearly see filiform epicalyx and calyx divided upto the middle as per keys in BSI Flora, making it micranthus.

--

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Lalithamba ji,

Do you still have doubts of this being Hibiscus micranthus on account of filiform epicalyx and calyx divided upto the middle as per keys in BSI Flora of India ?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: 30 March 2018 at 13:03
Subject: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Lalithamba ji.

Hope something useful comes out of these discussions.

Due to confusion in Regional Floras & BSI Flora of India, it is sure that there is a long standing confusion between the two.

Finally I think we have to rely on Malvaceae of Southern Peninsular India: A Taxonomic Monograph (I think published after BSI Flora of India).

From perusing this, you will agree with id of Hibiscus micranthus (which also has tri-lobed leaves and plant is pubescent and leaf size larger than 4 cm)  

Based on this, colour of the flower only decides the species among these two, as per the keys. 

On 19 April 2018 at 14:26, Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I firmly believe it is Hibiscus hirtus only; be cause we have observed the fresh specimen; some leaves are tri lobed; (H.micranthus never bear tri-lobed leaves,)epicalyx are longer than calyx; the entire plant is softly pubescent, the leaf size is larger than 3cm, (As per Flora of A.P.by Pullaiah, FPM by Gamble)

thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

[J.M. Garg]

Hi Lalithamba ji,

I am waiting for your final views in the matter. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Lalithamba ji

On Sun 22 Apr, 2018, 5:46 PM Lalithamba Avadhanam, <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank You Garg ji,

It is Hibiscs hirtus only as per my opinion, It is up to you only

thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>

Date: 9 April 2018 at 20:25
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Garg ji 

the attached plant is Hibiscus micranthus, (H.micranthus produces white and pink flowers it is Syn of H.ovalifolius(Forsk.)Vahl, 

Leaves simple less than 2cm in diam, in H.micranthus, In H.hirtus leaves partite or lobed(Please observe 2 specimens) epicalyx shorter than calyx, plants hard, stellate hairs short(not as soft as H.Hirtus); in white variety of  H.micranthus the corolla is reflexed

in H.hrus epicalyx simple, seeds cottony, plants bushy, soft hairy

(It is not the colour of the flower that determines the species)

It is as per Gamble, Flora A.P By T.Pullaiah, 

based on these books and after cross check at BSI I have identified

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Shrikant ji,

May I request you pl. confirm this as Hibiscus micranthus or otherwise. 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri 30 Mar, 2018, 1:03 PM
Subject: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Shrikant ji,

You can see the calyx on enlarging the first image in some of the flowers.

On 9 May 2018 at 14:49, Shrikant Ingalhalikar <shrikant.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can not be sure since the key characters do not appear in close ups in images but leaves are not serrate dentate and flowers are turning to orange on fading. I am hence not familiar to this plant from eastern ghats. It does not look to be H micranthus or H hirtus either. Regards

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 11:48 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Shrikant ji,

May I request you pl. confirm this as Hibiscus micranthus or otherwise. 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri 30 Mar, 2018, 1:03 PM
Subject: [efloraofindia:291433] Submission of Hibiscus hirtus
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear all

I have observed Hibiscus hirtus placed in efi is Hibiscus micranthus (Ref. eflora karnataka; again the description given does not match; It is a rather rare plant; leaves trilobate; hence I am adding description with images captured in wild at Velugonda hills of Eastern ghats

Hibiscus hirtus L., Sp. Pl. 694. 1753. 

Ver.names: Lesser mallow orange (Eng.) Nityamalli నిత్యమల్లె  (Tel.) 

Family: Malvaceae

Description:

Herbs, perennial, up to 2 m tall; stems much branched, appressed-stellate-setulose. Leaves alternate; petiole 0.5-4cm long; lamina ovate-lanceolate, 4-6 × 2-3 cm, shallowly 3 lobed, sparsely to fairly densely stellate-hispid on both surfaces, apex acute, margin serrate, base obtuse. Flowers 1-2cm in diam.,  white; peduncle articulated just below the calyx. Epicalyx lobes 6-7, 5-10 mm long, filiform, stiff. Calyx stellate-setulose; lobes up to 8-9 × 1•5 mm., linear-lanceolate. Corolla 1.5-2cm across, ovate,  white. Staminal column shorter than petals. Ovary globose; style divided above the stamina column, stigmas 5, capitate. Capsule 9 mm in diam., subglobose, minutely pubescent. Seeds reniform, with white silky floss.  

Habitat & location: Rare in hills. 

Thank you

regards

A.Lalithamba

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to indian...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Shrikant Ingalhalikar

12, Varshanand Society

Anandnagar, Sinhagad road

Pune 411051. INDIA

Tel. +9120 2435 0765

www.flowersofsahyadri.com

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Lalithamba ji. 

On Thu 10 May, 2018, 8:22 AM Shrikant Ingalhalikar, <shrikant.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, one can barely see but epicalyx is seen much longer than calyx while description says almost as long. What about other characters that do not match?

The key between two species is based on leaves.

Leaves long, narrow...hirtus

Leaves broad, short....micranthus

Other characters are overlapping.

Even if my guess is incorrect on this, the confidence level of images is poor.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Shrikant ji,

May I request you to pl. peruse the Monograph at https://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=Hibiscus+hirtus+%2B+monograph+of+indian&source=bl&ots=aHVIaPCQmk&sig=IVANi2I0HBHe8ccDDALptE_0zw8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivzYjXgsbaAhUILI8KHTpfCWoQ6AEISDAJ

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Lalithamba ji.

On 10 May 2018 at 10:30, Lalithamba Avadhanam <alali...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Garg ji and Shrikanth ji, 

In a hurry I had taken the images, taking one branch for observation, it is also lost,  but it is not H.micranthus, 

thank you for the efforts you have employed

regards

A.Lalithamba

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 9:53 AM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Shrikant ji,

May I request you to pl. peruse the Monograph at https://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=Hibiscus+hirtus+%2B+monograph+of+indian&source=bl&ots=aHVIaPCQmk&sig=IVANi2I0HBHe8ccDDALptE_0zw8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivzYjXgsbaAhUILI8KHTpfCWoQ6AEISDAJ

On Thu 10 May, 2018, 9:50 AM J.M. Garg, <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Lalithamba ji. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Shrikant ji.

On 10 May 2018 at 10:53, Shrikant Ingalhalikar <shrikant.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Gargji. This is going in circles. Can't go beyond the keys given in flora and can't challenge the monograph too. Regards

On 10 May 2018 09:53, "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Shrikant ji,

May I request you to pl. peruse the Monograph at https://books.google.co.in/books?id=XhVI5BluzCUC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=Hibiscus+hirtus+%2B+monograph+of+indian&source=bl&ots=aHVIaPCQmk&sig=IVANi2I0HBHe8ccDDALptE_0zw8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivzYjXgsbaAhUILI8KHTpfCWoQ6AEISDAJ

On Thu 10 May, 2018, 9:50 AM J.M. Garg, <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Lalithamba ji. 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.