ANMAR55/77 Please identify this plant

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Anurag Sharma

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Mar 27, 2015, 11:22:39 AM3/27/15
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Family: Vitaceae
Date: 24th March 2015
Place: Mullayanagiri, Chikamagalur, Karnataka
Habit: Climber
Habitat: Shola forest
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surajit koley

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Mar 28, 2015, 11:15:20 PM3/28/15
to Anurag Sharma, efloraofindia
Dear Anurag Ji,

Again I fail to reach a conclusive decision. What I notice in your attached pics are -
  • branch muricated, as in T. muricatum, T. leucostaphylum, T. sulcatum
  • I am not sure if branches are sulcate
  • flowering season doesn't match with muricatum, match with sulcatum, don't have info on leucostaphylum
  • leaves in your pics do not have long petiole, whereas herbaria of sulcatum and muricatum show long petioled leaves
  • I am not sure if these leaves can be called crenate, as in sulcatum
  • Wight Icones T 740 has not been referred to sulcatum
  • Icones T 740 is related with muricatum and leucostaphylum
  • T 740 has acuminate leaflets, moderately long petiole
  • I think leaves and inflorescence rather match with Icones T 28, but branch in that plate is not muricated. T 28 is related to sulcatum as per FBI
Thank you
Regards
surajit

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Anurag Sharma <anurag...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello sir, good evening.

I hope I got this one right this time. Please take a look at your leisure. Eagerly looking forward to the inevitable month/months of discussion on this topic! I have several other photos also, please do ask me for the angles that you require and if I have them, they will be sent to you immediately.

Thank you.

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surajit koley

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Mar 29, 2015, 10:31:33 PM3/29/15
to Anurag Sharma, efloraofindia
Dear Anurag Ji,

No need to hurry, first of anything is your study, you do need to reply any thread right now. I can and will wait until your are done with all your other priorities.

I think it's better to to wait for the mature fruits of this plant if it's in your vicinity.

You can download Icones from http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/92#/summary. Meanwhile attached here related plates for your perusal.

Thank you and best wishes for your upcoming exams.

Regards

surajit


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Anurag Sharma <anurag...@gmail.com> wrote:
I would really love to have the Wight Icones. I would certainly make good use of them.

Please give me some time to get back to you sir. It is that time of the year again for me. The last four days have been spent in studying Chemistry for my upcoming end semester exams. I will reply soon.
Thank you so much for your quick reply.
Icones28.jpg
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surajit koley

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Mar 29, 2015, 10:34:37 PM3/29/15
to Anurag Sharma, efloraofindia
Dear, please read you need not reply any thread.... not is missing in my earlier mail :D
Regards

J.M. Garg

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Apr 1, 2015, 3:07:51 AM4/1/15
to efloraofindia, Anurag Sharma

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Again I fail to reach a conclusive decision. What I notice in your attached pics are -
  • branch muricated, as in T. muricatum, T. leucostaphylum, T. sulcatum
  • I am not sure if branches are sulcate
  • flowering season doesn't match with muricatum, match with sulcatum, don't have info on leucostaphylum
  • leaves in your pics do not have long petiole, whereas herbaria of sulcatum and muricatum show long petioled leaves
  • I am not sure if these leaves can be called crenate, as in sulcatum
  • Wight Icones T 740 has not been referred to sulcatum
  • Icones T 740 is related with muricatum and leucostaphylum
  • T 740 has acuminate leaflets, moderately long petiole
  • I think leaves and inflorescence rather match with Icones T 28, but branch in that plate is not muricated. T 28 is related to sulcatum as per FBI
Thank you
Regards
surajit 

No need to hurry, first of anything is your study, you do need not reply any thread right now. I can and will wait until your are done with all your other priorities.

I think it's better to to wait for the mature fruits of this plant if it's in your vicinity.

You can download Icones from http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/bibliography/92#/summary. Meanwhile attached here related plates for your perusal.

Thank you and best wishes for your upcoming exams.

Regards

surajit 

Tetrastigma species in eFloraofindia (with details/ keysfrom published papers/ regional floras/ FRLHT/ FOI/ Biotik/ efloras/ books etc., where ever available) 

 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Anurag Sharma <anurag...@gmail.com>
Date: 27 March 2015 at 20:52
Subject: [efloraofindia:219386] ANMAR55/77 Please identify this plant
To: indian...@googlegroups.com


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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses
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Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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J.M. Garg

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Apr 4, 2015, 8:23:37 AM4/4/15
to efloraofindia, Anurag Sharma, surajit koley

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Anurag Sharma

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Apr 8, 2015, 1:16:25 PM4/8/15
to J.M. Garg, efloraofindia, surajit koley
Good evening sir,

I go with Tetrastigma muricatum/Tetrastigma leucostaphylum because the Gamble description (1 and 2) effectively rules out Tetrastigma lanceolarium (although the key puts the species under not or little tuberculate). And the other possible species Tetrastigma sulcatum can be ruled out (if you agree) based on the leaf margin because as you say, they may not be crenate but rather distantly serrate.

Regarding the size of the leaves, I believe I have a very simple answer. I, very unwittingly, picked out a set of NEW AND SMALL LEAVES! Please see the attached photo. Although blurry, the background shows significantly larger leaves than the small leaves in the centre left of the photo.

As for the conundrum between Tetrastigma muricatum/Tetrastigma leucostaphylum:

Character

Tetrastigma muricatum

Tetrastigma leucostaphylum

Branches

Terete, muricate

Angled, tuberculate/muricate

Leaves

Usually 3-foliate, may be pedately 5-foliate (sizes very similar)

Leaves pedately 5-foliate (sizes very similar)

Leaflets

Broadly elliptic

Oblanceolate

Inflorescence

Ferruginous

Ferruginous

Fruit

1cm across (cannot find no. of seeds)

1 cm across, 2-4 seeded


The place is quite accessible with a guide and is only a few hours away from Bangalore. I will update with fruits if possible.
In the meanwhile, please let me know what you think.

Thank you very much.
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surajit koley

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Apr 8, 2015, 3:17:38 PM4/8/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Yes Anurag Ji, perhaps we can skip T. lanceolarium and T. sulcatum.
Since branches are not angled and one or two leaf 3 foliolate it should be T. muricatum, not T. leucostaphylum. Leaves also match with Flora-Karnataka (JCB) herbarium. However, JCB says branches of T. leucostaphyllum is terete and leaves elliptic! Yet, it is closer to T. muricatum, I think.

Thank you
Regards

Anurag Sharma

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Apr 9, 2015, 11:16:00 AM4/9/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
That is quite odd sir. Different books report different shapes.
Thank you sir.

surajit koley

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Apr 9, 2015, 1:21:35 PM4/9/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Not only the stem character, Anurag Ji, leaves of T. leucostaphylum are broadly elliptic as per JCB, it goes against your description you keyed in your table (comparing both muricatum and leucostaphylum). Fruit sized also differs in JCB.

So, it's a very complicated case, as can be seen in discrepancies in KEY and descriptions across various literature.

Thank you
Regards
surajit

Anurag Sharma

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Apr 10, 2015, 1:06:31 PM4/10/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Indeed sir.
And also sir, here are those sheets that I referred, one from Coorg flora and the other Hassan flora.
Flora of Coorg district.jpg
Flora of Hassan district.jpg

surajit koley

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Apr 10, 2015, 1:58:04 PM4/10/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Here you have account of T. leucostaphylum from Singapore, Anurag Ji. A bit more elaborate https://floraofsingapore.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/tetrastigma-leucostaphylum/. And also see pictures in http://www.natureloveyou.sg/Tetrastigma%20leucostaphylum/Main.html.

Perhaps you can skip T. l. too!

Thank you
Regards
surajit

D.S Rawat

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Apr 11, 2015, 12:52:21 AM4/11/15
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Keys from Flora of India vol-5 are attached. Hope these help too.
DSRawat Pantnagar
Tetrastigma_1.JPG
Tetrastigma_2.JPG
Trtrastigma_3.JPG

Anurag Sharma

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Apr 11, 2015, 12:49:40 PM4/11/15
to D.S Rawat, indiantreepix
Thank you very much Rawat sir. Fruits and seeds are so very important to distinguish these species.

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surajit koley

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Apr 29, 2015, 2:04:05 PM4/29/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Many thanks to Rawat Sir.

Anurag Ji, following Flora of India KEY I would like to try one more time.

We can skip all species after KEY-11b.
We can also skip species no. 8 at KEY-9b
We can also skip species no. 14 at KEY-10a. (we do not have fruits. but distribution is unlikely?)

That leaves us with only two species - T. sulcatum and T. nilagiricum.

It appears to me it is same species as in your other upload - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/WsS7RH-k8V0/_geQhnWEZhEJ

Thank you
Regards

Anurag Sharma

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May 20, 2015, 9:50:04 AM5/20/15
to surajit koley, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Surajit sir, thank you for your tireless efforts. I also agree with T. sulcatum in both this thread and the other.
I looked in a lot of other district flora and find no mention of Tetrastigma nilagiricum. So that may be ruled out too!

Anurag Sharma

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May 20, 2015, 9:51:49 AM5/20/15
to surajit koley, D.S Rawat, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
Rawat sir, thank you very much for the key!

surajit koley

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May 20, 2015, 1:45:42 PM5/20/15
to Anurag Sharma, J.M. Garg, efloraofindia
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