Is COVID a hype? Scientific discussions are worth reading

[Dr S B Gogia]

Dear Friends

A doctor friend and international celebrity scientist - over 1000 publications  (r/o Europe but used to visit India every 6 months for research and study purposes.) recently died after a 5 weeks stay in hospital. The cause of death has not been revealed,

Without revealing his name, I am sending ditto copies of his mails sent to a different group where his slant is obvious. It is an interesting topic for discussion His personal mails to me during the last year were a continuous lament that COVID is obstructing his work and travel. He worded that it is more a political ploy than anything. HIs frustration was that his plans to revisit India slated first for March/ April then July and then definitely in November could not happen

All the following mails were on Oct 4th and then maybe he was admitted 

Mail # 1

One of the main obstacles in a rational estimation of the main death factor is that the rate of carriership of  Covid19  (latent virus) in a general population has never been studied. There was no need for that. It is estimated that 3 to 20 % of people around the world may be long haulers of this virus showing no infection symptoms, as it is the case with Herpes, papilloma species, HIV and 16 families of respiratory viruses. They exist in our body hidden in as it is called “ immunologically privileged sites”  This being so, somebody who is a symptomless carrier and dies of infarct is classified as Covid 19 victim, while this is not true that he died of viral infection. Inflammatory parameters may be elevated due to flu with lung edema, acute GI infection, acute rheumatic episode,   etc. The professional virologists estimate Covid 19 death rate at 3% of those who had acute respiratory symptoms.

I don’t negate the importance of the clinical problem. The excess death rate, one year after epidemics started, will show the real data. 

Why do populations of aborigines in Brazilien jungle or at Andaman Island are carriers of Covid19 having not had contacts with outside people?

# 2

Impact of anticoagulation prior to COVID-19 infection: a propensity score–matched cohort study | Blood | American Society of Hematology

https://ashpublications.org/blood/article/136/1/144/458074/Impact-of-anticoagulation-prior-to-COVID-19

# 3

According to the ICD classification we list all diseases of a given person and on the first place put the most recent one that was diagnosed (but not necessarily fatal). Covid detected but not stated that it was responsible for death?

From the practical medicine platform we classify according the condition most likely causing death eg  myocardial infarct in a person with detected Covid 19  or acute respiratory insufficiency in a Covid 19 carrier. Heart insufficiency resulted in death. The role of covid19 only secondary if at all.

From the academic point of view we have to measure the viral load of the respiratory viruses in lung biopsy material of the deceased and prove Covid19 was dominant. So far few publications.  

All is not simple but it would be better if aircraft engineers analysed what is wrong in the aircraft construction and not the traffic controllers. Our task as medical professionals is to provide evidence the politicians could base on.

# 4

Anticoagulation practice patterns in COVID‐19: A global survey - Rosovsky - 2020 - Research and Practice in Thrombosis and Haemostasis - Wiley Online Library

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rth2.12414

# 5

Does the COVID-19 cytokine storm exist? Research may have an impact on the chances of success of a specific treatment -- ScienceDaily

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200904100551.htm

And a reply 

Dear XXX
I don't get it clearly but isn't it a matter of common sense and not a rocket science to define the Coronavirus infection as well as the mortality and morbidity caused by the virus? Multiorgan failure is one of the outcomes of failed clinical reaction to defend properly.
As long as the virus precipitates or initiates whatever the process of body reaction, it is the virus infection which caused the mortality by definition no matter whether the patients have any comorbidity like COPD or diabetes or not!
200,000 deaths are the outcome of Coronavirus infection after all!
I simply failed to understand your rationale to deny this common sense. I hope I misunderstood you.
Sincerely, -

-YYYY

Warm Regards

Shashi Gogia

Consultant Surgeon 

President SATHI 

Director Virtual SATHI Private Limited

Founding Fellow IAHSI 

Book Editor Fundamentals of Telemedicine and Telehealth (Published by Elsevier)

[Dr S B Gogia]

Thank you Dr Padam

It is an interesting read and strongly recommended for all

The citation again - 

CITATION: Editorial. Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science
BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4425 (Published 13 November 2020)

PS -Since this is a bid to initiate discussions among various groups to finally focus on one. I am forwarding to the other groups

Please note that over a period of 2 months we will only be using Hit_...@googlegroups.com - To join that - send me a private mail o even better send an email to

hit_forum...@googlegroups.com

Warm Regards

Shashi Gogia

Consultant Surgeon 

President SATHI 

Director Virtual SATHI Private Limited

Founding Fellow IAHSI 

Book Editor Fundamentals of Telemedicine and Telehealth (Published by Elsevier)

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 5:00 PM 'Padam Khanna' via sathi <sathi_...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Dr Gogia,

Thanks for sharing this mail, important for us to know of such thoughts. In continuation to this am
sharing citation of an article appeared in BMJ, it is good to read:

CITATION: Editorial. Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science
BMJ 2020; 371 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.m4425 (Published 13 November 2020)

Best wishes,



On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 08:36:32 +0530 Dr S B Gogia wrote
>Dear FriendsA doctor friend and international celebrity scientist - over 1000 publications  (r/o

Europe but used to visit India every 6 months for research and study purposes.) recently died after a 5

weeks stay in hospital. The cause of death has not been revealed,Without revealing his name, I am

sending ditto copies of his mails sent to a different group where his slant is obvious. It is an
interesting topic for discussion His personal mails to me during the last year were a continuous lament
that COVID is obstructing his work and travel. He worded that it is more a political ploy than
anything. HIs frustration was that his plans to revisit India slated first for March/ April then July

and then definitely in November could not happenAll the following mails were on Oct 4th and then maybe
he was admitted Mail # 1One of the main obstacles in a rational estimation of the main death factor is

that the rate of carriership of  Covid19  (latent virus) in a general population has never been
studied. There was no need for that. It is estimated that 3 to 20 % of people around the world may be
long haulers of this virus showing no infection symptoms, as it is the case with Herpes, papilloma
species, HIV and 16 families of respiratory viruses. They exist in our body hidden in as it is called “
immunologically privileged sites”  This being so, somebody who is a symptomless carrier and dies of
infarct is classified as Covid 19 victim, while this is not true that he died of viral infection.
Inflammatory parameters may be elevated due to flu with lung edema, acute GI infection, acute rheumatic
episode,   etc. The professional virologists estimate Covid 19 death rate at 3% of those who had acute

respiratory symptoms.I don’t negate the importance of the clinical problem. The excess death rate, one

year after epidemics started, will show the real data. Why do populations of aborigines in Brazilien
jungle or at Andaman Island are carriers of Covid19 having not had contacts with outside people?#

2Impact of anticoagulation prior to COVID-19 infection: a propensity score–matched cohort study | Blood
| American Society of Hematologyhttps://ashpublications.org/blood/article/136/1/144/458074/Impact-of-
anticoagulation-prior-to-COVID-19

# 3According to the ICD classification we list all diseases of a given person and on the first place

put the most recent one that was diagnosed (but not necessarily fatal). Covid detected but not stated

that it was responsible for death?From the practical medicine platform we classify according the

condition most likely causing death eg  myocardial infarct in a person with detected Covid 19  or acute
respiratory insufficiency in a Covid 19 carrier. Heart insufficiency resulted in death. The role of

covid19 only secondary if at all.From the academic point of view we have to measure the viral load of

the respiratory viruses in lung biopsy material of the deceased and prove Covid19 was dominant. So far
few publications.  All is not simple but it would be better if aircraft engineers analysed what is
wrong in the aircraft construction and not the traffic controllers. Our task as medical professionals
is to provide evidence the politicians could base on.

# 4Anticoagulation practice patterns in COVID‐19: A global survey - Rosovsky - 2020 - Research and

Practice in Thrombosis and Haemostasis - Wiley Online
Libraryhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rth2.12414

# 5Does the COVID-19 cytokine storm exist? Research may have an impact on the chances of success of a
specific treatment -- ScienceDailyhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200904100551.htm
And a reply Dear XXXI don't get it clearly but isn't it a matter of common sense and not a rocket

science to define the Coronavirus infection as well as the mortality and morbidity caused by the virus?

Multiorgan failure is one of the outcomes of failed clinical reaction to defend properly.As long as the

virus precipitates or initiates whatever the process of body reaction, it is the virus infection which
caused the mortality by definition no matter whether the patients have any comorbidity like COPD or

diabetes or not!200,000 deaths are the outcome of Coronavirus infection after all!I simply failed to

understand your rationale to deny this common sense. I hope I misunderstood you.Sincerely, --YYYY

Warm Regards

Shashi GogiaConsultant Surgeon President SATHI Director Virtual SATHI Private LimitedFounding Fellow

IAHSI Book Editor Fundamentals of Telemedicine and Telehealth (Published by Elsevier)

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Padam

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