list bullet beyond the left text frame?

[Kathleen]

Is there a way to move a list bullet beyond the left text frame?

Kat
McGraphics Design, Inc.
(626) 799-2195
http://www.mcgraphics.us

[Dick Margulis]

On 8/26/2013 6:47 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Is there a way to move a list bullet beyond the left text frame?

Assuming the answer is no, why don't you just set up your text styles
with a consistent left indent and then eliminate all or part of that
indent for your list style?

[Michael Brady]

On Aug 26, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Kathleen <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:

Is there a way to move a list bullet beyond the left text frame?

There are several ways to do this, but they are workarounds and each one has a different trade-off.

1. What Dick said. The tradeoff is that you have to reset the margins to accommodate the extra space for the bullets and then get used to every other paragraph starting with a left margin indent.

2. Using the Story panel, select Optical Margin Alignment and specify how much you want the text to push out beyond the left margin. I've tested it with 12 and 18 points and that seems to get the bullet right outside the margin. But using a smaller or larger amount seems to bring the bullet back inside the margin. I don't grok how this feature works in fullness.



3. Modify the left edge of the text frame so the text extends out farther to the left. Tradeoff: This is a permanent alteration of the text frame. If you reflow the text, whatever text flows into these "niches" will be aligned farther to the left. 





| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Michael Brady

[Dick Margulis]

On 8/26/2013 7:20 PM, Michael Brady wrote:

On Aug 26, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Kathleen <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:

Is there a way to move a list bullet beyond the left text frame?

There are several ways to do this, but they are workarounds and each one has a different trade-off.

2. Using the Story panel, select Optical Margin Alignment and specify how much you want the text to push out beyond the left margin. I've tested it with 12 and 18 points and that seems to get the bullet right outside the margin. But using a smaller or larger amount seems to bring the bullet back inside the margin. I don't grok how this feature works in fullness.

NOTE: This solution is only available for ragged text. If you are setting justified text, it's a nonstarter, because whatever size you specify affects both the left and right. The main use for optical margin alignment is to hang punctuation, and it's assumed you want to do so symmetrically.—Dick

[Kathleen]

I'll try the optical character margin and get back to you. Where do I find it?

I was able to create an Indyfont triangle bullet which I'd created in Illustrator and linked to ID then set as an anchored object with the width of the triangle outside the text frame. Have to match the AO placement in existing books. Design can't be edited.

Kat
McGraphics Design, Inc.
(626) 799-2195
http://www.mcgraphics.us

On Aug 26, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Michael Brady wrote:

>
> On Aug 26, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Kathleen <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to move a list bullet beyond the left text frame?
>
> There are several ways to do this, but they are workarounds and each one has a different trade-off.
>
> 1. What Dick said. The tradeoff is that you have to reset the margins to accommodate the extra space for the bullets and then get used to every other paragraph starting with a left margin indent.
>
> 2. Using the Story panel, select Optical Margin Alignment and specify how much you want the text to push out beyond the left margin. I've tested it with 12 and 18 points and that seems to get the bullet right outside the margin. But using a smaller or larger amount seems to bring the bullet back inside the margin. I don't grok how this feature works in fullness.
>

> <Screen Shot 2013-08-26 at 7.11.07 PM.png>

>
> 3. Modify the left edge of the text frame so the text extends out farther to the left. Tradeoff: This is a permanent alteration of the text frame. If you reflow the text, whatever text flows into these "niches" will be aligned farther to the left.
>

> <Screen Shot 2013-08-26 at 7.15.37 PM.png>
>
>
>
> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> Michael Brady
>
>
>
>
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[Bret Perry]

Story editor - click in the text stream of bullet and go to story editor.
What a weird place for alignment!

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[Michael Brady]

On Aug 27, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Kathleen <kat...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> I'll try the optical character margin and get back to you. Where do I find it?

The Story panel

[Evans, Rebecca]

You might be able to get the bullet to hang outside the margin by
adjusting the sidebearings to zero in Indyfont, or some other glyph
position/space adjustment.

A rule above/below can extend outside the margin. Maybe there is a way to
define a dashed rule where the dashes are triangles and have a huge gap
between dashes. I bet Kelly Vaughn could figure this out, she's been
posting some neat tricks on the InDesign Secrets blog.

Rebecca

[Kathleen]

Optical Margin Alignment does outdent bullet a tiny bit. But it also affects the left indent of all text in the story, which isn't workable because its affects the margin-indented text below the bulleted line.

Kat
McGraphics Design, Inc.
(626) 799-2195
http://www.mcgraphics.us

>> <Mail Attachment.png>

[Russel Davis]

Probably not what you are looking for but... Simply use a separate text box that is no more than the bullets. Would be fine for print when generating a PDF.

Russ Davis / Gray Dog Press

[Kathleen]

Thanks Dick, Michael, Finally left within the fame. Now to run it by the client.

The free Indyfont script allows you to make one character, in my case bullet per font. I'm going to make 5 custom bullets.

Indyfont seems to use fonts as a kind of reference, but doesn't do anything to them. Your bullet is another font entirely. You can turn black and white designs or logos into fonts. Then you can apply type setting to them.

Very cool.

Kat
McGraphics Design, Inc.
(626) 799-2195
http://www.mcgraphics.us

On Aug 26, 2013, at 6:30 PM, Dick Margulis wrote:

[Brian Pearce]

Could anyone recommend a good book (or just good resources) for someone well-versed as a designer who needs to learn his way around PowerPoint?

Any advice appreciated!

BRIAN PEARCE
Red Jacket Press, LLC
<http://www.redjacketpress.com>

[Pauline Johnson]

I have found the MS resources online to be pretty good when it comes to Office products. I Google for topics and usually find the info right away.

Thanks,
Pauline

Sent from my iPhone... Please overlook any typos, thanks.

[Dick Margulis]

On 10/16/2013 10:12 PM, Brian Pearce wrote:
> Could anyone recommend a good book (or just good resources) for someone well-versed as a designer who needs to learn his way around PowerPoint?
>

Your primary needs in this situation will be met by spiritual practice.
Consider adopting a Buddhist philosophy, or perhaps brush up on your
Transcendental Meditation. Either of those will be cheaper than
psychotherapy and probably more effective. And if all else fails,
there's Scotch. At a bare minimum, deep cleansing breaths will come in
handy.

Do read Edward Tufte's trenchant critique of PowerPoint before you get
too far down the rabbit hole.

The actual how-to stuff is pretty straightforward. Here are some
non-obvious things to watch out for in the interface:

1. Selection. Everything is based on the exact location of the cursor,
although you can't always see what you're clicking on. Pay attention to
the borders of containers. Texture changes indicate functional changes
(of things like arrow keys and the tab key, for example). Do you have
the container selected, or are you just inside the container looking at
text? You'll get used to this.

2. The tab ruler. It works more or less the same as the tab ruler in
Word, if you're familiar with that. Things can get out of whack if some
client is mucking about trying to format bullets. If you're not in that
situation, just accept the automatic indents and you should be okay.

3. Slide masters. There are numerous layout options available to choose
from before you start customizing. Start with one that's close to what
you need for any given slide. I'm not talking about design templates
(graphic backgrounds and themes). Those are pretty obvious, and they're
infinitely customizable. I'm talking about the layout of content holders
within the slide, which many users never notice.

4. Comments and tracked changes. Not really. The comment boxes are
awkward at best, and there are no tracked changes. However, a trick you
can use is to zoom out, so the slide is an island in the middle of the
pasteboard, and then add text boxes and leader lines outside the slide.
This is not a bad way to communicate design meta-information to your
client or another worker.

5. You can select and edit control points and Bezier curves on shapes.
This is sort of a hidden feature, but be constantly on the lookout for
what's available on the right-click context menus.

6. The Alt key lets you move stuff smoothly rather than to preset grid
points.

That's what I can come up with off the top of my head. There's more. As
clunky, unintuitive, and awful as PowerPoint is, if you approach it with
an open mind, you can generally get it to do what you want it to do.

Good luck.

Dick

[David Creamer]

Brian,

 

As mentioned, Microsoft has lots of tutorial info available:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint-help/getting-started-with-powerpoint-2010-HA010359435.aspx

 

Also, Lynda.com is a good resource too. You can sign up for a free week.

 

David Creamer

IDEAS Training

http://www.ideastraining.com

 

PS: Nice site--I’ve already ordered one of your books.

If you could ever get the rights, a good companion to Children of the Atom would be Gladiator by Philip Wylie.