Re: [ID] How to move an anchored object behind text?
William Adams
> Is there a way to "arrange" and anchored object (in this case a plain box filled with a process color)? I'd like to send the anchored box to back, behind the text that it's anchored in. I've tried all the options I can think of, but I must be missing something.
Is there a reason why you can't just use a rule?
William
--
William Adams
senior graphic designer
Fry Communications
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Michael
On Dec 17, 2010, at 1:11 PM, john wrote:
> I'd like to send the anchored box to back, behind the text that it's anchored in. I've tried all the options I can think of, but I must be missing something.
If you anchor it as an inline object, then it can appear behind text below its anchor position, but it will appear in front of text above the anchor position. Also, the anchored object will appear behind the text below it *but in front of any colored fill for the text rame. Unfortunately, if it's an inline object, it cannot extend beyond the left or right margin.
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Michael Brady
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john davis
Thanks,
John
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Dave Saunders
then dragging it down so it hangs from the baseline. It will then
behind the text that follows the line with the anchor (which is not
quite what you asked for).
Dave
Nicole
I've used this method to highlight text.
Nicole
On Dec 17, 10:46 am, john davis <john5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK. It would be nice to be able to push it to Back as a custom anchored
> object. We were trying to use this to highlight call-out text and were
> staying away from rules above/below because we want to be able to use them
> to frame the text. But I guess manipulating the rule below will give us more
> options than trying to anchor the box in a blank paragraph above the
> call-out text.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2010, at 1:11 PM, john wrote:
>
> > > I'd like to send the anchored box to back, behind the text that it's
> > anchored in. I've tried all the options I can think of, but I must be
> > missing something.
>
> > If you anchor it as an inline object, then it can appear behind text below
> > its anchor position, but it will appear in front of text above the anchor
> > position. Also, the anchored object will appear behind the text below it
> > *but in front of any colored fill for the text rame. Unfortunately, if it's
> > an inline object, it cannot extend beyond the left or right margin.
>
> > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> > Michael Brady
> >www.michaelbradydesign.com/Blog/
> > LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/typehuile
> > Facebook:http://www.facebook.com/typehuile
>
> > "Thinking Like a Designer" is now available at
> > --
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Glenn Heckard
I've intentionally ordered new PCs with XP but now I am biting the bullet. I
bought a notebook with Windows Home Premium (HP Pavilion dv7-4173) and I
also want to upgrade to CS5. I would like to keep CS4 around for awhile on
this new system. Once I get the notebook working then I'll upgrade my
desktop.
1. Will Windows 7 home premium be enough OS or do I have to upgrade to
Professional so I can run CS4?
2. Will CS5 and CS4 coexist with either version of Windows 7?
3. What font manager do you recommend? I'm using an older one now, Font
Reserve, and for the most part is working OK. I don't know if it will work
on Win7 so now might be a good time to upgrade it too.
4. Any other issues upgrading from XP to Windows 7?
If you have a suggestion of where to look for these and other answers to
questions like this please let me know. I do appreciate your advice.
Warm regards from Wisconsin,
Glenn
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Merv Leeding
I've only had CS5 installed on Win7 Home Premium 32-bit for a short time
but it hasn't given any problems.
No experience with CS4 on Win7.
You don't mention whether you have 32 or 64-bit but I expect that Adobe
would have made it 64-bit capable.
Not an "issue" but a tip. With more than a year with Win7 I suggest you
explore the WinKey short-cuts. Some of them do save time, particularly
the way you can split a large (24in in my case) screen exactly into two
program windows. Another is the use of WinKey + 1-9 and 0 to start one
or more of the taskbar programs.
A quick way to find something that may have "moved" is to tap the
WinKey, start typing (eg rem) and watch the pop-up start window. In that
case rem would put Remote Assistance up at the top of the items found
and Enter would get you into that area. Little need to use Start Run
since that method searches programs, help, control panel, documents and
files. Rightly used it can save a lot of keys and mouse clicks. I find
many users clicking the Start button not realising it is faster to tap
the WinKey.
Feel free to send off-topic Win7 questions off list. Can't guarantee an
answer of course.
Regards, Merv
--
Regards
Merv Leeding
Glenn Heckard
The system I bought is a 64 bit. I'm certain that CS5 can run on 32 or 64
bit systems. The question about running CS4 is the main concern. The
specifications say it is certified for 64 bit on Vista and nothing about Win
7. I also saw where there is a download for Win 7 that allows XP certified
programs to run and I my assumption is I'll need to do that. If not for CS$
most likely for other older programs.
Regards,
Glenn Heckard
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Merv Leeding
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 4:10 PM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
G'day Glen
I've only had CS5 installed on Win7 Home Premium 32-bit for a short time but
it hasn't given any problems.
No experience with CS4 on Win7.
You don't mention whether you have 32 or 64-bit but I expect that Adobe
would have made it 64-bit capable.
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Merv Leeding
I have given you the run-down on XP Mode for Windows 7 in case you have
old programs that won't run on Windows 7. However If ID CS4 is OK for
Vista 64-bit there is a good chance that it will run on Windows 7 64-bit.
-----------------------
The XP capability is called XP Mode and has a "virtual machine"
(actually a large file) into which a registered copy of XP Service Pack
3 is installed. This allows you to run XP independently of Win7 and
install older programs into that.
The concept of virtual machines with separate OS's installed inside.
What makes XP Mode different is that there is integration with Win7.
What this means is that programs installed into XP are listed in the
Win7 Start Menu and can be run from there.
So whereas normally you would open the virtual machine OS (XP) and then
run from the XP Start Menu, you have a quicker option where you don't
see the intermediate opening of XP but go straight to(in your case) CS4.
I've done a few XP Mode installations and it works like this.
(1) You must have Win7 64-bit Professional or Ultimate. It does not work
with Home Premium.
(2) You go to the Microsoft XP Mode site
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx
It verifies that you have Windows 7 Pro or Ultimate and then gives you
three files to download. Note that many tutorial sites refer to two
files but they are not up to date. One small file is Virtual-PC, The
XP-Mode is 400+ MB because it is a licensed copy of XP. The third small
file added recently is software emulation of "virtualization" to cover
cases with machines that lack hardware virtualization. Even if you have
hardware virtualization it can be turned off in the BIOS. It shouldn't
be hard to find how to do that with Google.
All my machines needed the software virtualization.
Microsoft suggest one order for the two files and many others suggest
the reverse. I suggest you follow the instructions on that site. It is a
relatively simple installation and calls for no special knowledge.
(3) When you run XP Mode (from say a desktop icon or start menu) it
takes over part of the system memory, usually 500 MB, which then becomes
unavailable for Win7. There are settings control for XP Mode that can
change that amount of memory.
Now 32-bit PCs can use about 3.4 GB of the 4 GB commonly installed but
64-bit can use the full 4 GB. However Win7 supports something like 128
GB and it makes sense to have 6 or more GB installed to get the full
benefit from 64-bit. The theoretical support of 64-bit is astronomical,
something like 16 exabytes ane enough to contain the internet.
(4) I XP Mode you have by default a drive C. This is a virtual drive
inside the large file that holds XP and the virtual machine. Any real
drives you have on the machine do not have drive letters but are given
names like C on GLEN, D on GLEN where GLEN is the computer name. You
still access them from inside XP Mode but it is slightly confusing.
If you wanted to have another drive (D) in XP Mode you can create one or
two and choose their size. Actually you can give them a fixed size or a
small dynamic size where they expand to meet the need. These virtual
hard drives are separate large files on a real hard drive similar to the
XP Mode file.
By default when you close XP Mode it transfers the memory content to a
hibernation file in the same way as Win7.
XP Mode supports USB ports and this has not always been true of virtual
machines. XP Mode has a small toolbar at the top of the screen with such
items as "Ctrl-Alt-Del" to shut down XP. If you used those keys they
would act on Win7.
It sounds more complicated than it is. You can have XP Mode as a window
or full-screen. I haven't tried but as a window you could move it to a
second monitor.
Regards, Merv
Glenn Heckard
have to upgrade my OS from Home Premium to Professional.
Take care.
Glenn Heckard
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Merv Leeding
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 6:58 AM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
G'day Glen
I have given you the run-down on XP Mode for Windows 7 in case you have old
programs that won't run on Windows 7. However If ID CS4 is OK for Vista
64-bit there is a good chance that it will run on Windows 7 64-bit.
Dov Isaacs
(or the underlying version of Windows 7) to fully and properly support
any of the CS4 applications. They all run perfectly fine under both
Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 64-bit with no special installation
requirements.
And both CS4 and CS5 may be installed simlutaneously with the
following caveats:
(1) You cannot have both Acrobat 8 and Acrobat 9 simultaneously
installed without major problems. By default, the installers don't
allow this.
(2) If you install both CS4 and CS5, install CS5 after CS4. Note that
otherwise, by default the CS4 programs will be invoked when clicking
on file icons and the icons may not be correct for InDesign files.
(3) If at some point you need or want to uninstall CS4, you will be
best off to totally uninstall CS5 then CS4 and then reinstall CS5.
Otherwise your installation may be missing required components.
- Dov
>
> - Show quoted text -
Glenn Heckard
Gratefully,
Glenn Heckard
- Dov
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Heather White
Got me thinking. I'm about to get CS5 (yay!). But I do still have CS3 on my machine. Definitely don't need that anymore. But I do want to keep CS4 on the machine.
Can I uninstall CS3 without much issue? (I'm on a pc - windows xp).
Thanks!
-heather
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dov Isaacs
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:34 PM
To: InDesign talk
- Dov
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Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Heather White wrote:
> Got me thinking. I'm about to get CS5 (yay!). But I do still have CS3 on my machine. Definitely don't need that anymore. But I do want to keep CS4 on the machine.
>
> Can I uninstall CS3 without much issue? (I'm on a pc - windows xp).
Since you're on Windows you can probably get away with it and I'm probably an exception on the Mac platform but I've never been able to use either InD CS4 or CS5. I try and try but it's just too slow. I've turned off every setting I possibly can, trashed my prefs, started from scratch (not using a template) - even turned off most of my fonts - and it still hangs constantly. One simply cannot layout a magazine - or even a 1-page ad - when one has to sit and wait for 30+ seconds every time a key is hit.
I use CS3 for InD, CS5 for Photoshop (it has always been 100% reliable and still is) and the odd time I can force myself to use DW (instead of GL) I use CS5 for as long as it will stay open. I could never keep DW CS4 open long enough to do anything (made for a good excuse not to use it <G>) and CS5 is better but it still quits unexpectedly.
For years I had purchased only bits and pieces of the Suites, never the whole thing, until CS4 came along. Now I feel totally screwed by Adobe because they made me pay for CS5 when I'd never been able to use CS4.
Sorry - didn't mean to get into a rant about it. My point is - don't throw away InD CS3! You may need it some day.
--
Helen W. Lee, Kamloops, British Columbia
Webmaster, Canine Review Magazine: http://www.caninereview.ca
(Available in the App Store and iTunes)
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William Adams
> For years I had purchased only bits and pieces of the Suites, never the whole thing, until CS4 came along. Now I feel totally screwed by Adobe because they made me pay for CS5 when I'd never been able to use CS4.
Have you tried the following:
- Use System Profiler.app to check the state of your hardware, including the SMART status of your drive(s) to see if you have a possible hardware fault
- maxxing out your installed memory
- reformatting your HD and re-installing the OS, performing all OS updates, then installing CS4 (or 5) and performing all updates (you could do this pretty easily by purchasing a Firewire drive)
- upgrading to Snow Leopard (10.6), performing a clean install, then installing CS5 (only)
Given that CS4 works quite well on my old dual G5, it should work well on any but the oldest of Intel Macs.
Dov Isaacs
- Dov
William Adams
> - Use System Profiler.app to check the state of your hardware, including the SMART status of your drive(s) to see if you have a possible hardware fault
There's also a hardware diagnostic check on the OS disk which came w/ your Mac --- System Profiler.app will tell you when last it was run.
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:27 AM, William Adams wrote:
> Have you tried the following:
>
> - Use System Profiler.app to check the state of your hardware, including the SMART status of your drive(s) to see if you have a possible hardware fault
I actually took the computer in to my service guys (Apple Reseller; closest Apple Store is a 5-hour drive away over the mountains) and they ran tests on it for a full day and it passed with flying colours. It's only a couple of years old (MacBookPro5,4 - Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.53 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 500GB hard drive).
> - maxxing out your installed memory
I can probably add more but surely 4 GB should be enough for InD?! We're talking 1-page files here; CS3 could handle 200-page files with aplomb, never slowing down.
> - reformatting your HD and re-installing the OS, performing all OS updates, then installing CS4 (or 5) and performing all updates (you could do this pretty easily by purchasing a Firewire drive)
I have a couple of external drives but since the computer was practically brand new when I installed CS4 and it was completely unusable, I don't really thing wiping it off again would have much effect, would it? When I bought the laptop (upgrade from a smaller laptop) it was brand new and the techs did the OS install and moved my files, so it was done correctly, I'm sure.
> - upgrading to Snow Leopard (10.6), performing a clean install, then installing CS5 (only)
I *am* on Snow Leopard although it wasn't a clean install, just an upgrade. I suppose I could try reinstalling from scratch but since I've been using Adobe products from the very beginning (PageMaker, PageMill, SiteMill, etc.) with never a problem, I just expect Adobe products to work properly. The CS4 and CS5 suites don't. CS3 InD - no problem. Even my antique GL CS still works without a hitch.
> Given that CS4 works quite well on my old dual G5, it should work well on any but the oldest of Intel Macs.
Perhaps you're just lucky? :>) Don't get me wrong - I love the Adobe products. I'm just upset that after 20+ years of using their products they couldn't cut me a deal (other than a 5% discount or something like that) after I'd put out $1400+ for CS4 which I couldn't use.
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:38 AM, William Adams wrote:
> There's also a hardware diagnostic check on the OS disk which came w/ your Mac --- System Profiler.app will tell you when last it was run.
Where would I look for that info? What is the diagnostic checker called? Would I look for it under applications (in the Profiler) or under some other heading?
William Adams
> I *am* on Snow Leopard although it wasn't a clean install, just an upgrade.
Upgrading Snow Leopard is known to have issues and a clean install will provide better performance.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 12:47 PM, Lee Helen W. wrote:
> Where would I look for that info? What is the diagnostic checker called? Would I look for it under applications (in the Profiler) or under some other heading?
Apple Hardware Test.
Here's a page on how to do it:
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509
Theresa Mesa
I'm on an Intel MacPro (late 2006) running 4G of RAM. I zap the PRAM periodically, repair permissions occasionally, and just ran it through DiskWarrior, which did find and fix some problems.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:57 AM, Theresa Mesa wrote:
> Because of a web project needing transparent PNG8 files, I got Fireworks CS4, which came with Bridge CS4. I've never used anything so buggy for my day-to-day work. Apparently, CS4 (especially FW and PS) tended to be pretty buggy on the Mac (Intel Macs, running Leopard - now Snow Leopard), based on all the reading I did when encountering problems with FW. I vowed not to give another cent of my money to Adobe until they fixed the problem. And yes, CS3 works just fine, although ID and Illustrator sometimes inexplicably crash when I'm trying to open a file I've opened a bazillion times before.
Thanks Theresa - it's nice to know I'm not alone in this.
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:55 AM, William Adams wrote:
>> Where would I look for that info? What is the diagnostic checker called? Would I look for it under applications (in the Profiler) or under some other heading?
>
>
> Apple Hardware Test.
>
> Here's a page on how to do it:
>
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509
I know how to do that. What I was wondering was where in the System Profiler.app would I find the data on when the Hardware Test was last run? I've looked at a few options that seem logical to me but have yet to find it. Sometimes my logic is a bit different. :>)
William Adams
> What I was wondering was where in the System Profiler.app would I find the data on when the Hardware Test was last run? I've looked at a few options that seem logical to me but have yet to find it. Sometimes my logic is a bit different. :>)
System Profiler.app | Hardware | Diagnostics
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 10:20 AM, William Adams wrote:
>> What I was wondering was where in the System Profiler.app would I find the data on when the Hardware Test was last run? I've looked at a few options that seem logical to me but have yet to find it. Sometimes my logic is a bit different. :>)
>
> System Profiler.app | Hardware | Diagnostics
Found it! Thanks William.
Michael
On Dec 27, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Lee Helen W. wrote:
>>> What I was wondering was where in the System Profiler.app would I find the data on when the Hardware Test was last run? I've looked at a few options that seem logical to me but have yet to find it. Sometimes my logic is a bit different. :>)
>>
>> System Profiler.app | Hardware | Diagnostics
>
> Found it! Thanks William.
On a Mac, if you want to examine all of the various logs, open the Console, which is found at
Applications / Utilities / Console
It shows many reports, such as crash reports, hang reports, diagnostic reports, and such. Probably TMI unless you read Geek or Klingon, but interesting nonetheless. Also, if you ever have to report a serious problem and Apple or Adobe or someone else asks for a crash report, this is where to look.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Michael Brady
www.michaelbradydesign.com/Blog/
mich...@michaelbradydesign.com
Robert Severn
> --
> you are subscribed to "InDesign talk" on Google Groups, to post: send email to indesi...@googlegroups.com, to unsubscribe: send email to indesign-tal...@googlegroups.com, for more options visit http://groups.google.com/group/indesign-talk
>
Bob
Robert K Severn
Severn Associates
Marketing Services
rse...@severnet.com
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The extent of a production problem is inversely
proportional to the time remaining to correct it.
Bret Perry
FW - Fireworks CS4 is extremely buggy and crashes/quits unexpectedly, freezes, slows and fails to update its windows for minutes at a time. This is most apparent in docs with dozens of layers and several pages and live text, especially when working with files on the server.
Snow Leopard is a little worse in this regard, and we also have some crashing problems with large Photoshop files in Snow.
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Severn
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 11:40 AM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Theresa Mesa
I am having fewer problems with FW (EVERY single time I closed it, it would crash) than I did when I first got it.
I did run DiskWarrior recently, which found and repaired some issues,so we'll see if ID and Illustrator keep crashing when I open a file from Bridge or from the finder, instead of opening it from the file menu.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Theresa Mesa
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Theresa Mesa wrote:
> Thank you for letting everyone know I'm not crazy, Bret. ;-)
ditto!
William Adams
> I did run DiskWarrior recently, which found and repaired some issues
But you haven't tried a tabula rasa, ex nihilo from-scratch reinstall of the OS and relevant applications (and then tested and graduated installation of apps / utilities).
Believe it or not, Adobe does go to quite a bit of effort to develop these apps and test them, and if you match your environment to the base-line testing scenarios they will work reliably.
Theresa Mesa
And seriously, Adobe needs to be putting out software that doesn't need to be handled with kid gloves in order to work properly.
With all due respect, it's best not to jump to conclusions about another person's set-up and installation and maintenance actions. Impressed with your verbiage, though. I'll have to share it with my friends at Mensa. I've been using Macs for 27 years now. I'm able to correct 99% of all issues that crop up with my hardware or software. I rarely need to go to the Genius Bar. I've been using Adobe products since it was just "InDesign." I used Quark before that. I did my paste-up with wax and Bestine before that. I've been in the biz since literally junior high. That makes 40 years.
I am still having issues with CS products, including Dreamweaver. I use them nearly daily.
I think all companies, including Apple and Adobe and even my own company, get lazy and careless. Probably because they are run by humans, and not God. Garbage in, garbage out.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
William Adams
> Actually, after the Mother of All Mac Crashes (because of a non-free font issue) on my MacPro in April of this year, I did install EVERYTHING from scratch, as you described.
And did you test extensively before installing each additional application / utility / font?
> I am still having problems with ID and Illustrator crashing when opening from Bridge or from the stand-alone file. Not all the time, but enough to be annoying. I am fully updated.
In that case, I'm sure that an Adobe engineer would be glad to work w/ you when you find a repeatable crash --- every time I've found such a thing, I've been able to work w/ Adobe and they've been very interested in fixing things.
> And seriously, Adobe needs to be putting out software that doesn't need to be handled with kid gloves in order to work properly.
And seriously, most people don't need kid gloves.
> With all due respect, it's best not to jump to conclusions about another person's set-up and installation and maintenance actions.
If one sets things up properly, maintenance, beyond backing up, shouldn't be an issue.
> Impressed with your verbiage, though. I'll have to share it with my friends at Mensa. I've been using Macs for 27 years now. I'm able to correct 99% of all issues that crop up with my hardware or software. I rarely need to go to the Genius Bar. I've been using Adobe products since it was just "InDesign." I used Quark before that. I did my paste-up with wax and Bestine before that. I've been in the biz since literally junior high. That makes 40 years.
Fair enough, but I've been using them quite as long, and the software has gotten much more reliable in the past couple of years. I appreciate that it's frustrating when things crash, but if it's repeatable enough to be annoying as you describe, it's repeatable enough that there's an underlying problem which you can root out and solve.
Theresa Mesa
On Dec 27, 2010, at 12:37 PM, William Adams wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Theresa Mesa wrote:
>
> And did you test extensively before installing each additional application / utility / font?
Fairly extensively, considering I had to get back up and running before too long, because I had deadlines. I was very methodical. Not after every font, but have the crash wipe out over 1000 fonts, I only had about 480 added fonts, and 400+ system fonts left. This loss included about $1000 worth of Linotype fonts purchased from MyFonts before Linotype pulled the licenses on them, so I wasn't able to retrieve them from MyFonts. That is a long and drawn-out story, due in part to my own stupidity, I don't want to go into.
> In that case, I'm sure that an Adobe engineer would be glad to work w/ you when you find a repeatable crash --- every time I've found such a thing, I've been able to work w/ Adobe and they've been very interested in fixing things.
My experience with Adobe is that their customer service sucks rotten eggs, and they won't talk to you unless you pay them first. The problem is intermittent - repeatable, but not necessarily reproducible consistently enough for problem-solving.
> And seriously, most people don't need kid gloves.
As evidenced by the thousands of posts I've read re: CS4 problems, apparently they do.
>
> If one sets things up properly, maintenance, beyond backing up, shouldn't be an issue.
In a perfect world. Every file you pull onto your computer from a client is a potential problem, and yes, I have safeguards in place.
>
> if it's repeatable enough to be annoying as you describe, it's repeatable enough that there's an underlying problem which you can root out and solve.
Not necessarily. It's like bringing your car to the mechanic because it's been making a funny noise for weeks, but the mechanic can't reproduce the sound. And I have enough rare and incurable health issues to know that not all problems are able to be rooted out and solved.
But thanks.
>
> William
>
> --
> William Adams
> senior graphic designer
> Fry Communications
> Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
>
Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio
> If one sets things up properly, maintenance, beyond backing up, shouldn't be
> an issue.
William, software HAS bugs. Any software.
(I'm both an ex programmer and a power-user. I know ;-)
So, even if you do everything properly, sometimes shit happens.
That wouldn't even be such an issue (nobody's perfect, so why the software
should be?)... if the errors would be managed properly.
I got crazy installing CS3 some times ago: ID kept crashing all the time, in
a non-consistent way. The crash reports were mostly unhelpful (or
misleading). I did the usual things (prefs, fonts, permissions, etc.),
nothing.
I was desperate (and frightened: every mouse click could lead to a crash!),
when I noticed the problem got worse with other apps open. Then, I
discovered it was likely a low memory issue: if ID was the only app running,
it worked fine (most of the time).
I didn't think about low memory first (I have a G4 with 1 GB), because my
OSX 10.4 has always been very good at memory management (never had an issue
with a dozen apps open).
It would have been so difficult to insert some error management code into
the app, telling the user something like "Sorry, I'd need more memory, I
quit", or "Ouch, some font is corrupted, bye"?
Not doing so, to me, it's bad - or lazy - programming. When I was a
programmer, almost half the code were routines to check (and manage) errors
(both system's and user's).
The problem aren't the bugs themselves (you can't get rid of all of them),
but the app feedback. You don't know why the app crashes, so you lose lots
of time and get mad. :-(
The ID CS3 crash feedback was the least informative I ever got in 25 years
of computing. That's why I agree with blaming Adobe.
Nini Tjäder
I've been using Adobe apps since versions 1 in most cases, and Macs since 1984, plus doing client support and maintenance almost as long (Macs only).
In most cases it is either hardware (internal or external including cables and networks), other software, non-Adobe plug-ins, non-healthy fonts, caches, prefs and user-caused (like not having restarted for a couple of months), too full harddisk, too little RAM, too many apps running at the same time, some "system-enhancement" that gets in the way, a corrupt image, too many active fonts, old font-managers, not having ran the latest updates for apps and system, etc. that is the cause for problems. There are many things that can cause the problem - you "just" have to find what it is....
On 27 dec 2010, at 21.37, William Adams wrote:
> Fair enough, but I've been using them quite as long, and the software has gotten much more reliable in the past couple of years. I appreciate that it's frustrating when things crash, but if it's repeatable enough to be annoying as you describe, it's repeatable enough that there's an underlying problem which you can root out and solve.
nini ;-)
___________________________________________
Nini Tjäder __ ni...@ninisworld.com
http://www.ninisworld.com
Theresa Mesa
I don't use free fonts. They're an accident waiting for a place to happen. Heck, even paid fonts can be a problem.
My computer is shut. down. every night. Maintenance chron jobs will run when I turn the computer on since I'm on 10.6.
74% of my hard drive is free.
4G Ram.
Use Font Agent Pro 4 (latest update) to manage my fonts so they all don't have to be active.
I almost always let my apps update when updates become available.
I run Intego Virus Barrier on my computer, with the real-time scanner going. As the Mac gains market share, it also gains the attention of those who need to spend their time more productively than dreaming up malware.
Time Machine running, and Super Duper doing an incremental backup twice a day to another hard drive.
Hardware is constantly being monitored in a variety of ways. I blow out the tower every month or so.
All my Digital Juice files are on their own external hard drive.
I periodically zap my PRAM and do other system maintenance chores, including going in and cleaning out funky preferences that have popped up, probably during an app crash.
I have noticed that QuickBooks (I really hate Intuit) makes certain apps kind of cranky, so I make sure it's not running in the background. I use it. I close it.
Power users are going to have a lot of different things going on with their computers. More software than the average bear. More apps running at the same time. More RAM being used. More processes going. Since Adobe markets itself to power users, it really should be able to cope with the demands made of it. By the same token, I run a fairly lean system, and don't go downloading software willy-nilly. Probably why I have 74% of my 500G hard drive free.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 9:55 AM, William Adams wrote:
> Apple Hardware Test.
>
> Here's a page on how to do it:
>
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1509
Ran this and passed with flying colours, as I thought it would. :>)
I have picked up one tip from this discussion that I hadn't thought of, though. I'll try running InD with very few other apps open. Can't see how I can run it without Photoshop but I can probably shut down most of the other what seems like dozens of apps I generally have open.
Oh - and I do shut down the computer periodically, although not every night. Probably on average once a week or so.
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 27, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Michael wrote:
> On a Mac, if you want to examine all of the various logs, open the Console, which is found at
> Applications / Utilities / Console
>
> It shows many reports, such as crash reports, hang reports, diagnostic reports, and such. Probably TMI unless you read Geek or Klingon, but interesting nonetheless. Also, if you ever have to report a serious problem and Apple or Adobe or someone else asks for a crash report, this is where to look.
Klingon is about right. I *have* read the Console reports periodically and they're a pretty hard go. :>) Thanks for the reminder about that, Michael.
Michael
On Dec 27, 2010, at 11:21 PM, Lee Helen W. wrote:
> I have picked up one tip from this discussion that I hadn't thought of, though. I'll try running InD with very few other apps open. Can't see how I can run it without Photoshop but I can probably shut down most of the other what seems like dozens of apps I generally have open.
Also occasionally take a look at the Activity Monitor > System Memory tab (at bottom). It will display a pie chart with four components. The two to pay attention to are Active memory (yellow) and Free memory (green). The yellow wedge shows you the amount of memory being used by active processes and the green wedge shows unused memory (available to be used). If you are using many apps, the yellow wedge will be quite big, perhaps 60% or more, and the green wedge will get smaller as you use up all the installed memory.
When my machine is running slowly, I sometimes look at the Activity Monitor to see if I'm using all the memory, and if that's the case, then I start to shut down apps, such as Word or PPT (because they're made by you-know-who), or most often Safari. Just by quitting Safari, the green wedge gets bigger and the yellow wedge gets much smaller. Then shortly after that, I'll need to look something up on the web and I'll launch Safari again, but this time it isn't taking up as much memory until I go to an active site with lots of Flashy things (advertisements and other animations).
William Adams
> Use Font Agent Pro 4 (latest update) to manage my fonts so they all don't have to be active.
Have you tried other font managers?
> I almost always let my apps update when updates become available.
>
> I run Intego Virus Barrier on my computer, with the real-time scanner going. As the Mac gains market share, it also gains the attention of those who need to spend their time more productively than dreaming up malware.
Given the basic security safeguards built-into a filesystem w/ ownership &c. I wouldn't bother w/ this (or if you're really feeling paranoid --- install it on a separate machine in a single account and only run it from there, isolating all incoming files to that environment before checking) --- but I'd be suspicious of it, since it adds an extraneous file examination and lock which seems likely to create race conditions which IME lead to crashes.
> Time Machine running, and Super Duper doing an incremental backup twice a day to another hard drive.
Does Super Duper run a background process? If so, I'd dispense w/ it. Set up a network server, run the backup process on that.
> Hardware is constantly being monitored in a variety of ways. I blow out the tower every month or so.
Sounds like a lot of unnecessary wear-and-tear.
> All my Digital Juice files are on their own external hard drive.
I don't understand what this refers to.
> I periodically zap my PRAM and do other system maintenance chores, including going in and cleaning out funky preferences that have popped up, probably during an app crash.
A necessary evil, but I'd hope that you could get the number of crashes down low enough that you're not doing that so often. (Interestingly the first couple of search results for Fireworks crashing suggest doing this and it solving it for the OP).
> I have noticed that QuickBooks (I really hate Intuit) makes certain apps kind of cranky, so I make sure it's not running in the background. I use it. I close it.
I would suggest isolating that to at a minimum its own account or preferably its own machine --- a quick search seems to indicate that it installs a kernel extension (probably for copy protection).
> Power users are going to have a lot of different things going on with their computers. More software than the average bear. More apps running at the same time. More RAM being used. More processes going. Since Adobe markets itself to power users, it really should be able to cope with the demands made of it. By the same token, I run a fairly lean system, and don't go downloading software willy-nilly. Probably why I have 74% of my 500G hard drive free.
There are a lot of power users on this list who aren't having the difficulties you are (and I'm sure that there are some at Adobe). Sure, software crashes some, but it's gotten reliable enough that I haven't up-dated the paper background of my ``Crash Log'' outside my cubicle in two years now (guess I'll have to do it this year) w/ 2009 having less than 100 crashes (including Quark) and 2010 likely to finish out w/ just 32.
When you get a chance, let the hardware diagnostic run overnight, then (if it checks out OK), re-install just the OS, just your CS4 apps, just the fonts which you need, just your font manager and just the other graphic-design/text-processing apps, all relevant updates and you'll match what others are running successfully --- if things don't work at that point, I'd begin to suspect an intermittent hardware fault like a bad soldering joint (my wife's laptop just died after a month or so of intermittent crashes caused by cracks developing in the solder holding down the GPU --- running the hardware diagnostic overnight _should_ catch this, but if it's a thermal stress may miss it if it doesn't run the machine hard / hot enough). If they do, then we've isolated things down to the extra software (Quickbooks, Super Duper, Virus Barrier) which aren't typical for graphic design use.
Why not get an inexpensive machine to run QuickBooks &c. on?
Theresa Mesa
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Theresa Mesa
> On Dec 27, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Theresa Mesa wrote:
>
> Have you tried other font managers?
Yeah, Extensis Suitcase, which contributed to a huge crash a few years or so ago. I've been using FAP for a few years, and like it better.
>
> Given the basic security safeguards built-into a filesystem w/ ownership &c. I wouldn't bother w/ this (or if you're really feeling paranoid --- install it on a separate machine in a single account and only run it from there, isolating all incoming files to that environment before checking) --- but I'd be suspicious of it, since it adds an extraneous file examination and lock which seems likely to create race conditions which IME lead to crashes.
Hmmm, will think about it.
>
> Does Super Duper run a background process? If so, I'd dispense w/ it. Set up a network server, run the backup process on that.
Super Duper - highly regarded by the guys at MacWorld for years. The only background process is when it runs twice a day, as scheduled.
>
> Sounds like a lot of unnecessary wear-and-tear.
I don't know what you're talking about. The system uses S.M.A.R.T. status, and blowing out the tower means with canned air to get rid of dust, which is a computer killer.
>
> A necessary evil, but I'd hope that you could get the number of crashes down low enough that you're not doing that so often. (Interestingly the first couple of search results for Fireworks crashing suggest doing this and it solving it for the OP).
Not many crashes in the grand scheme of things.
>
>> I have noticed that QuickBooks (I really hate Intuit) makes certain apps kind of cranky, so I make sure it's not running in the background. I use it. I close it.
>
> I would suggest isolating that to at a minimum its own account or preferably its own machine --- a quick search seems to indicate that it installs a kernel extension (probably for copy protection).
This would be EXTREMELY annoying to do, since I use it to track my work time, and I'm the treasurer of a nonprofit organization. I just try not to multitask with it open.
>
> There are a lot of power users on this list who aren't having the difficulties you are (and I'm sure that there are some at Adobe). Sure, software crashes some, but it's gotten reliable enough that I haven't up-dated the paper background of my ``Crash Log'' outside my cubicle in two years now (guess I'll have to do it this year) w/ 2009 having less than 100 crashes (including Quark) and 2010 likely to finish out w/ just 32.
Sounds about right.
>
> When you get a chance, let the hardware diagnostic run overnight, then (if it checks out OK), re-install just the OS, just your CS4 apps, just the fonts which you need, just your font manager and just the other graphic-design/text-processing apps, all relevant updates and you'll match what others are running successfully --- if things don't work at that point, I'd begin to suspect an intermittent hardware fault like a bad soldering joint (my wife's laptop just died after a month or so of intermittent crashes caused by cracks developing in the solder holding down the GPU --- running the hardware diagnostic overnight _should_ catch this, but if it's a thermal stress may miss it if it doesn't run the machine hard / hot enough). If they do, then we've isolated things down to the extra software (Quickbooks, Super Duper, Virus Barrier) which aren't typical for graphic design use.
>
> Why not get an inexpensive machine to run QuickBooks &c. on?
Because I can't afford to. The only other computer is my laptop, and I don't put financial info on there, because i take it when traveling on business trips. I have let the hardware diagnostic run overnight, and everything has been fine. I have two CS4 apps - Fireworks and Bridge (which automatically installs because of Fireworks). Everything else is CS3.
I'm also not reinstalling anything. As I said, I did a clean install with a wipe in April.
I don't just do graphic design. I do web development too (CSS-based, W3C validated, 508 accessible), with all the attendant security issues. I have Parallels/WinXP installed, with two virtual machines, for cross-platform and cross-browser checking. It's not unheard of for a graphic designer to also do web work. As I said, I'm a *power* user. Considering that the Design Suite includes Dreamweaver, Adobe is aware of that issue.
I'm not having all that many difficulties. Recent Adobe updates seem to have resolved FW's issues, and only only have occasional problems with ID3 and Ill3 crashing when opening a file I've opened a bazillion times before.
Thank you for your time.
William Adams
> I have two CS4 apps - Fireworks and Bridge (which automatically installs because of Fireworks). Everything else is CS3.
<snip>
> only only have occasional problems with ID3 and Ill3 crashing when opening a file I've opened a bazillion times before.
Using Bridge CS4 to manage files which are opened by ID3 and Ill3 is a pretty unusual configuration --- probably one which hasn't been tested much, if at all --- if you're configuration doesn't match what anyone else is using you shouldn't be surprised that you're having issues no one else experiences.
I suspect you'd eliminate these remaining issues if you'd upgrade the balance of your apps to CS4 (rather unfortunate that Adobe doesn't make that sort of thing easy) CS5 offers some really nice features though and is a worthwhile upgrade (though if you're out of the upgrade window, I'd still advocate doing that clean install).
Theresa Mesa
Can't afford it, and I don't trust CS4.
The economy in our region has been hit VERY hard. Unemployment is near 15%. Many ad agencies in our area have closed. We have two for-profit design schools - Platt and Art Institute, which are vomiting $100,000 school loan-laden graduates onto the streets at the same time as employees of defunct ad agencies have gone freelance. There are a 100 graphic designers and web designers on every street corner. Biz has been very slow, but I've stayed working, due in large part to clients who have been with me for several years. Not too many new clients this year.
I'm past president of the Inland Empire chapter of the American Advertising Federation, and current treasurer of District 15 (which covers from Southern Nevada to San Diego, CA), so I'm intimately aware of the business issues in our region.
In other words, when I have money, I'm going to pay bills and buy groceries, not buy a buggy software suite. I haven't heard nearly as much negative press about CS5, but I can't afford the suite at this juncture. I'll put up with my software issues. They are not so bad as to make working impossible or even difficult. They are enough to be occasionally irritating.
>
> Using Bridge CS4 to manage files which are opened by ID3 and Ill3 is a pretty unusual configuration
Tell me about it. Thanks Fireworks CS4.
Bret Perry
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/33300/internet-security-barrier
or google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=virusbarrier+crash&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
If money is tight, ClamXav antivirus is slow but effective and free. I'd ditch Virus Barrier at least until you solve your issues.
I use Sophos (pricey but good, although constant definition downloads are a pain) -- really nothing to worry about as a Mac user, the only "virus" issue I've had in the past ten years is when Sophos issued a warning in error, claiming a lot of system files were infected and offering to delete them. I didn't go for it but many did, requiring a reinstall of OS. An hour later Sophos fixed the issue.
If you are truly worried that you'll become the first Mac user in this century to be harmed by a virus, go clamXav.
Or just let the Windows users fight their own darn virus battles. (I sent a virus? Oh dear, I'm on a Mac and I can't tell).
Oddly, I had more issues with CS3 than I have with CS4. Many others seem to have had the opposite experience.
(mine probably related to old CS2 files converted from Quark -- we rebuilt a lot of them from scratch in CS4)
CS5 seems more stable and launches quickly (but is slower for most things than CS4).
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 5:24 PM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Re: Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
4G Ram.
--
Theresa Mesa
As the Mac gains market share, it also gains vulnerability. Black hats are looking for bang for the buck, and there is a certain cachet to taking down the OS that will not be taken down. In October 2010, Boonana - a cross-platform Trojan Horse - made its appearance.
http://news.techworld.com/security/1798/mac-os-x-security-myth-exposed/
http://www.homelandsecureit.com/blog/2010/06/secure-it-alert-apple-mac-trojan-vulnerability-patched-in-os-x-malware-upgrade/
http://www.reedcorner.net/thomas/guides/macvirus/malware_catalog.shtml
http://www.net-security.org/malware_news.php?id=1509
http://www.appletell.com/apple/comment/boonana-trojan-horse-for-mac-os-x-spread-via-social-media/
http://osxdaily.com/2010/10/27/mac-trojan-horse-discovered-boonanakoobface/
http://www.spamfighter.com/News-15314-Boonana-Trojan-Infects-Mac-OS-X-By-Proliferating-Through-Social-Networks.htm
Oh, and this is my fave: http://www.machacking.net/
Best not to get to complacent just because one is a Mac owner.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Bret Perry
Boonana -- well, if you are over 19 and playing games on facebook, you deserve it ;_0 (not really)
But it is a Trojan not a virus (and therefore requires you to be so complacent that you will install anything)
I enjoy facebook but don't trust ANY of their apps. Just say no to FB apps.
Turning off Java (not JavaScript) in your browsers is always good, and run as non-admin and don't install what you don't know.
I do use Sophos, but it never finds anything other than PC viruses.
I was Mac-attacked by several viruses in the "classic" days, so I do run AV because our day will come someday... but so far nothing has hit me in OSX. And likely if we do get hit, it will be before the AV software knows about it.
So use your brain and be careful what you click. That is your real defense.
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:11 AM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Re: Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
--
Theresa Mesa
I have made it a person mission to *block* <heh-heh-heh>, hide, or not engage in any apps on FB, ESPECIALLY those that require me to release the information of my friends. That includes the benevolent "Causes" app that requires the release of my and my friends' personal info, User ID, etc. I don't care if using it will save the world from imminent destruction. I'm not "liking" it.
A Trojan horse is malware. A virus is malware. A back door/trap door is malware. A worm is malware. A rootkit is malware. And so on, and so on. Most people will use the term "virus" to encompass them all, but malware is more appropriate. AV software is *supposed* to protect against all malware, not just viruses, but we know that's not the case. I'm always careful about what I click, and can usually smell malware (and urban legends) from a mile away. Since malware evolves all the time, I don't ever assume its activation procedure will always remain the same.
I knew a gray hat hacker from one of my college computer classes - nice enough guy - who took down our K-12 school district's web site just for sport. Funny thing is, I knew it was him the minute I encountered it, and confirmed it in my next conversation with him. He was quite pleased with himself. He put the site back up.
A client sent me a download from a friend of theirs. I wrote back and told her I don't ever download anything unless I'm reasonably certain of the source and purpose. I don't click links in emails without hovering over the link to make sure the link text that pops up it looks legit, and even then, I just go directly to the site it proposes to be from, because the link could always be munged.
One of the reasons I don't use free fonts (besides the fact that they're usually blatant rip-offs of other fonts, and their kerning, etc. is probably not up to par with professional use) is that I don't know what kind of payload the download of the free font is carrying.
I'm kind of a security fanatic/geek - since the days of Computer Science 101 class, wherein we discussed Computer Security.
So you would NOT recommend Sophos? Again, I am not super-impressed with Intego, and I do believe it cause issues with my system. I was instructed by Mac friends and the geniuses at Apple to NEVER put anything Norton on a Mac, and my experience with that bears that out.
It gets kind of sketchy, because we graphic designers are always receiving files from clients who are not familiar with or are disinterested in correct computer hygiene.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Michael
On Dec 28, 2010, at 11:06 AM, Theresa Mesa wrote:
> One thing I've noticed with Leopard and Snow Leopard especially is that it will say that an app isn't responding when in fact, it's just opening, and taking its time about it.
My take on that is that the Activity Monitor is pinging the app, but the app is busy with a slow process and doesn't respond. Ergo, the Not Responding status.
Theresa Mesa
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
On Dec 28, 2010, at 11:30 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> My take on that is that the Activity Monitor is pinging the app, but the app is busy with a slow process and doesn't respond. Ergo, the Not Responding status.
>
>
> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> Michael Brady
> www.michaelbradydesign.com/Blog/
> mich...@michaelbradydesign.com
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/typehuile
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/typehuile
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/typehuile
>
> "Thinking Like a Designer" is now available at
> https://www.createspace.com/3462255 or http://snipurl.com/z43se
>
>
Bret Perry
Their one snafu was several years ago, and they fixed it within an hour or so...
It is un-noticeable except when downloading defs, and then it is only your internet or server connection that slows a bit.
But I think it is one of the best. They update defs quickly.
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 11:28 AM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Re: Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
--
Theresa Mesa
I don't want to TRY NOW FOR FREE before I can see the price, because what that usually means is that before I can even see the price, I'm downloading something onto my computer. Also #FAIL.
Freakin' A.
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
Bret Perry
http://www.sophos.com/products/buy-now/
I'm at a big firm, so our IT is "forced" to buy it at a group rate. Over 100 seats it becomes quite economical...
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 12:21 PM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] Re: Cs4 and/or CS5 with Windows 7 questions
Freakin' A.
--
Theresa Mesa
Second of all, seems it would be better if I just download the free Home version, since I'm only worried about two seats. You warned me about the price, not about the deficient web interface. LOL!
Theresa Mesa
909-799-7405 | Fax 888-676-7640
http://mesadesignhouse.com | http://theresajennings-artwork.com
steve harley
> Boy, Sophos sure doesn't want you to see its prices, does it? Ecommerce #Epic #Fail. Aside from their Free Mac AV Download, they don't seem to have an integrated suite for the Mac. If they do, it's well-hidden. And when the website is this difficult to navigate, it makes me wonder about the app's interface.
from what i understand Sophos mostly sells enterprise solutions that
are sold through system integrators (similar to InDesign Server); that
is probably why you can't find a price
steve harley
> When my machine is running slowly, I sometimes look at the Activity Monitor to see if I'm using all the memory, and if that's the case, then I start to shut down apps, such as Word or PPT (because they're made by you-know-who), or most often Safari. Just by quitting Safari, the green wedge gets bigger and the yellow wedge gets much smaller. Then shortly after that, I'll need to look something up on the web and I'll launch Safari again, but this time it isn't taking up as much memory until I go to an active site with lots of Flashy things (advertisements and other animations).
analyzing system memory usage on a Mac is subtle; you have to take
into account virtual memory and how much swapping (moving information
between disk and RAM to accomodate overflow) is taking place; once
virtual memory is engaged (indicated by "Swap used" greater than zero)
the system runs _best_ when there is _no_ free RAM; when you quit apps
you may seem to "free" some RAM, but the next time an application uses
memory that is mapped to disk, it will fill that free RAM back up,
because RAM is more efficient than virtual memory
swap used can be a crude indicator of whether apps are using so much
memory that they are slowing the system -- if it's greater than the
lesser of your RAM amount or 4GB, that correlates with VM slowdowns;
but a much better measure is the rate of paging, that is, the rate of
increase of the "Page ins" and "Page outs" numbers; the amounts
themselves aren't indicative since they are since the last boot, but
if they are increasing quickly and steadily, that means the system is
waiting as it writes to or reads from disk instead of memory
how quickly do the numbers need to increase to indicate a slowdown?
disk is roughly two orders of magnitude slower than RAM, but it's
still pretty fast; if we assume the disk works at about 50 MB/second,
that means every time (Page ins + Page outs) increases by 50 MB, your
system experiences about a one second slowdown; experientially, a
system only has to pause for a second or two now and then for it to
feel slow; you would probably perceive some slowness at a paging rate
of 50 MB/minute; at ten times that your system would feel very
sluggish
steve harley
> I warned you :-) $$$ -- Sophos Antivirus Mac,1 year, 3 users $136; 2 years, 3 users $203 (3 user is minimum)
$34/year/user is not too bad if you think it really has any value at all
Theresa Mesa
Ann_Camilla
time, the *!* dialogue box can't say something informative about why
it can't open a file or whatever -- surely it could indicate something
from huge list of possibles that Nini mentioned. In CS4 I used to get
Error 5 all the time. What ... ? When I googled it the solution seemed
to be to open that InDesign file in Quark. Well I'm not going to buy
Quark for that!! I just dream that soon a clever techie will set up an
app that will say, in English (pref UK English!!! :)), why my Mac
crashed.
Happy New Year everyone,
Ann
On Dec 27, 9:59 pm, Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio
> That wouldn't even be such an issue (nobody's perfect, so why the software
> should be?)... if the errors would be managed properly.
>
Nini Tjäder
On 29 dec 2010, at 16.12, Ann_Camilla wrote:
> why my Mac
> crashed.
Alan Gilbertson
Given the complexity of modern professional-grade software, there is no chance that every possible combination of software and hardware can be tested, no matter how thorough the engineering and QA teams are, nor how vast the army of beta testers. Not even Apple pretends otherwise (outside of their marketing department, anyway). You have a very complex and unusual setup. Something is causing a problem for you that doesn't occur for the majority of users. It doesn't really matter much what you've done or not done so far; the bottom line is you still haven't isolated the problem, and it is up to you to do that if you want it fixed. You're assuming that the problem is exclusively Adobe's, but you don't really know that. (The fact that you bought FW just to do PNG-8 images makes me wonder a bit. Photoshop does those just fine, so I almost never use FW for anything.)
When something breaks, you have to work out how to replicate the problem, or at least nail down some describable circumstances. Report it directly on the Adobe website (and that of any other vendor involved) as a bug with as much information as you can. In cases of app crashers I have always had an email response from a QE or Dev engineer at Adobe. They do work with me on it. Engineers can get when you send them the exact bit of info needed to reproduce a bug. Quite often they've been banging their heads against it for weeks, unable to isolate the problem, so they LOVE to have a report that lets them nail that sucker to the wall.
We're all in this together, as far as I'm concerned: we as professionals and the developers who create our tools have a mutual interest in the performance of the products. Programming as a discipline is barely 60 years old, desktop publishing is less than 30, the Creative Suite less than 10. That's not maturity. (It's not even adolescence -- think how old printing, architecture or typography are.) Yes, it can be intensely annoying when something just won't do what it's supposed to -- we've all been there far too often. But annoyance doesn't fix anything. Helping the developer isolate a problem so they can fix it helps everyone, and is a lot more rewarding than chewing up the rug, the desk or that hapless intern who wandered in just as your project crashed for the fifth time.
Where the peculiarities of a particular type of setup are causing problems, as in your case, the more people who report it in detail and send in crash reports, etc., the faster the QE folks can replicate the problem and get out a dot release. Without those reports, nothing can happen, because (obviously) nowhere among the hundreds of testing configurations at Adobe is there one quite like yours, and nobody among the external pre-release testers has a setup or a workflow quite like yours, so the problem couldn't (not "didn't") surface until after release. If your setup is totally unique then, like it or not, it really is up to you to isolate the problem. Only then can you legitimately hammer on Adobe's door (if it is their problem). As you've found in this forum, there are always people willing to help out, but ultimately the responsibility is yours.
I can guarantee you that the only reason any issue that crashes or freezes an Adobe app doesn't get fixed is that a) sufficient information to replicate it has not gotten to Adobe, or b) it's something genuinely outside their control (that would have to be fixed by, say, Apple or Intuit). It's not as if Adobe has a vested interest in people complaining, or in their products not functioning the way they were designed. And it's not as if they don't look for such things to prevent them happening in the first place.
You make it sound ("thousands of posts") like CS4 was riddled with bugs, but in my experience it was no different than CS3 or CS2 in that regard. I ran into very few issues with any of the apps, reported the ones I did find and saw the fixes come out as dot releases. The CS5 apps I use (PS, ID, IA, DW, AE, Pr, Sb, En, FL, FC, Bridge and Acrobat) are stable, and I've also upgraded hardware to take advantage of some of the new features, so they're lightning fast. As a comparative, there were loud howls of pain on the Apple forums when Snow Leopard bit people; enough to make me quite cautious about upgrading, even though I run Windows 7 on my Macbook Pro. It embarrassed Apple because they had made such a big deal of how easy it was all going to be, and it happened across a broad enough spectrum of system configurations that lots of info poured in to indicate where the problem lay so they could fix it, but even that was a minority of upgraders.
In your case, there are so many variables that you have to cut them back a long way before you can start to isolate where the problem lies. Until you do, you really can't dump the problem on Adobe's doorstep, fold your arms and expect them to investigate it for you while you tap your foot impatiently on the sidewalk, looking pointedly at your watch every few minutes.
If the people at Adobe didn't listen, I would be using Quark and other competing products. But they do listen, even if they're sometimes a bit slower off the mark than I'd like. The different application groups generally do an amazing job developing new tools to make us more productive, and fixing the bugs that inevitably surface after release. One can't possibly lose by helping them do their jobs more effectively.
And you can always upgrade your whole setup. I'm in roughly the same neck of the woods you are, have clients almost in your back yard in fact. I constantly have far more freelance work than I can handle and my pricing structure is not near the low end, so I don't buy the "economic crisis" bit. (Nor am I at all impressed with the quality of recent design school grads, but that's another story.) The upgrade is worth far more in gained productivity than it costs, unless you exclusively charge by the hour (in which case GridIron Flow v2, rather than QB, is a much better, designer-specific choice).
Alan
Theresa Mesa
And you can always upgrade your whole setup. I'm in roughly the same neck of the woods you are, have clients almost in your back yard in fact. I constantly have far more freelance work than I can handle and my pricing structure is not near the low end, so I don't buy the "economic crisis" bit. (Nor am I at all impressed with the quality of recent design school grads, but that's another story.) The upgrade is worth far more in gained productivity than it costs, unless you exclusively charge by the hour (in which case GridIron Flow v2, rather than QB, is a much better, designer-specific choice).
Alan
Lee Helen W.
On Dec 28, 2010, at 3:32 AM, Michael wrote:
> When my machine is running slowly, I sometimes look at the Activity Monitor to see if I'm using all the memory, and if that's the case, then I start to shut down apps, such as Word or PPT (because they're made by you-know-who), or most often Safari. Just by quitting Safari, the green wedge gets bigger and the yellow wedge gets much smaller. Then shortly after that, I'll need to look something up on the web and I'll launch Safari again, but this time it isn't taking up as much memory until I go to an active site with lots of Flashy things (advertisements and other animations).
I've always got Activity Monitor running and check it periodically but have usually just looked at the figures at the top - mainly %CPU - because GoLive has a tendency to be a hog. Thanks for this tip, Michael. I've just done a test while looking at the System Memory chart and was amazed to see that one of the apps which freed up the most space was Preview!! It freed up even more than quitting Word did. Amazing.
I've also done a couple of other things which were suggested in this thread (can't remember now what they were I'm afraid) and now my InD CS5 appears to be at least usable. I still have the odd slow spots but they are now only a few (5 or 6) seconds instead of being so long that I've had to force quit InD.
Happy New Year everyone!
steve harley
> I've always got Activity Monitor running and check it periodically but have usually just looked at the figures at the top - mainly %CPU - because GoLive has a tendency to be a hog.
note that running Activity Monitor itself will slow your computer
significantly -- ever noticed "pmtool" high on the CPU% list? that's a
helper for Activity Monitor
> Thanks for this tip, Michael. I've just done a test while looking at the System Memory chart and was amazed to see that one of the apps which freed up the most space was Preview!! It freed up even more than quitting Word did. Amazing.
as i noted previously, free memory is a false economy -- try paying
attention to the amount "Swap used" and the rate of paging
Malena Luongo
On Friday, December 17, 2010 1:21:40 PM UTC-5, Michael Brady wrote:
On Dec 17, 2010, at 1:11 PM, john wrote:> I'd like to send the anchored box to back, behind the text that it's anchored in. I've tried all the options I can think of, but I must be missing something.
If you anchor it as an inline object, then it can appear behind text below its anchor position, but it will appear in front of text above the anchor position. Also, the anchored object will appear behind the text below it *but in front of any colored fill for the text rame. Unfortunately, if it's an inline object, it cannot extend beyond the left or right margin.
Michael Brady
> Thanks for your reply, but this this doesn't work. In line anchored objects force all the text following them to wrap, not overprint.
>
> On Friday, December 17, 2010 1:21:40 PM UTC-5, Michael Brady wrote:
>
> On Dec 17, 2010, at 1:11 PM, john wrote:
> > I'd like to send the anchored box to back, behind the text that it's anchored in. I've tried all the options I can think of, but I must be missing something.
>
> If you anchor it as an inline object, then it can appear behind text below its anchor position, but it will appear in front of text above the anchor position. Also, the anchored object will appear behind the text below it *but in front of any colored fill for the text rame. Unfortunately, if it's an inline object, it cannot extend beyond the left or right margin.
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Michael Brady