create a colored circle with white text inside?
Kathleen
Kat
Michael Brady
On May 18, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Is there a way to create a colored circle with white text inside? These are small # icons pleased as anchored objects. My object is to avoid grouping text and circle, which is the way I've got the circles set up now. In the paste the text inside the circle couldn't be accurately positioned or would overset.
Sure. Make a text frame. Change it to a circle. Insert the text cursor and type a number. Center it and change it to white. Now, you'll have to fiddle with the baseline offset to position it vertically as you want. Set up the prototype by using the largest number in your set of circled numbers (1, 2, 3 digits?).
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Michael Brady
www.michaelbradydesign.com/Blog/ | mich...@michaelbradydesign.com
www.twitter.com/typehuile | www.linkedin.com/in/typehuile | www.facebook.com/typehuile
"Thinking Like a Designer" at https://www.createspace.com/3462255 or http://snipurl.com/z43se
William Adams
> Is there a way to create a colored circle with white text inside? These are small # icons pleased as anchored objects. My object is to avoid grouping text and circle, which is the way I've got the circles set up now. In the paste the text inside the circle couldn't be accurately positioned or would overset.
There are fonts which are created for this sort of thing --- also easy to make your own.
An interesting alternative if you're not already using paragraph rules and if you have a set text box width is to use a very short dotted rule and w/ appropriate offsets. Here, place this in a text file and pull it into a text block 45 picas wide:
<ASCII-MAC>
<vsn:6><fset:InDesign-Roman><ctable:=<Black:COLOR:CMYK:Process:0,0,0,1><C\=100 M\=0 Y\=0 K\=0:COLOR:CMYK:Process:1,0,0,0><Paper:COLOR:CMYK:Process:0,0,0,0>>
<dls:\[Default\]=<cas:0><cad:0>>
<dcs:number=<Nextstyle:number><cc:Paper>>
<dps:number-bullet-list=<Nextstyle:number-bullet-list><ptr:12\,Left\,.\,0\,\;><prac:C\=100 M\=0 Y\=0 K\=0><pras:12.000000><prao:-1.750000><prali:-2.750000><prari:530.625000><praon:1><prastype:JapaneseDots><bnlt:Numbered><nmcs:number><nmnum:\^\#\^t>>
<pstyle:number-bullet-list>This is an auto-numbered paragraph w/ circled numbers.
--
William Adams
senior graphic designer
Fry Communications
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Michael Brady
On May 18, 2011, at 12:59 PM, Michael Brady wrote:
> Sure. Make a text frame. Change it to a circle. Insert the text cursor and type a number. Center it and change it to white. Now, you'll have to fiddle with the baseline offset to position it vertically as you want. Set up the prototype by using the largest number in your set of circled numbers (1, 2, 3 digits?).
By the way, this can be saved as a paragraph style (for the text, i.e., the numbers) and as an object style that incorporates both the paragraph style and the anchored object attributes.
And with the just released ID CS5.5, there is a new feature that allows drag-and-drop positioning of anchored objects, much more user-friendly than cutting, switching to the text cursor, and then inserting.
It's very convenient to use one of those fonts with numbers in circles, but you are limited to the typeface, often not very imaginative. And the "white" part of the number is actually clear, which allows the background color to show through. Using ID frames, you can apply various effects, like gradient fills, bevels, drop shadows, etc., to both the background and to the numbers. And, as I said, these effects can be tucked into object styles.
Kathleen
I like the idea for the rule, but it wouldn't work for triangles (?) as I need solid color circles, triangles and squares and also outline circles triangles and squares.
kat
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Kat
McGraphics Design
(626) 799-2195
http://www.mcgraphics.us
Robert Severn
On May 18, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Is there a way to create a colored circle with white text inside? These are small # icons pleased as anchored objects. My object is to avoid grouping text and circle, which is the way I've got the circles set up now. In the paste the text inside the circle couldn't be accurately positioned or would overset.
> Kat
>
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>
Bob
Robert K Severn
Severn Associates
Marketing Services
rse...@severnet.com
"Let them fail; let everybody fail! I made my fortune when I had nothing to start with, by myself and my own ideas. Let other people do the same thing. If I lose everything in the collapse of our financial structure, I will start in at the beginning and build it up again."
-- Henry Ford
William Adams
> I like the idea for the rule, but it wouldn't work for triangles (?) as I need solid color circles, triangles and squares and also outline circles triangles and squares.
In that case, I'd use a special paragraph w/ just a point of leading, place the shape needed (use a graphic or draw it in InDesign) and shift it down --- then on the following paragraph use the numbered list to place the number.
William
Michael Brady
On May 18, 2011, at 6:52 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> I like the idea for the rule, but it wouldn't work for triangles (?) as I need solid color circles, triangles and squares and also outline circles triangles and squares.
Kat
This is very vexing. I was halfway through working out a demo of a number in a circle to meet the problem you described in your first post. I set up the number as a defined list, defined a paragraph style, inserted it as an anchored object, added a few gradient effects (for pizzazz), and saved it as an object style. I was planning to save it as a snippet and send it to you, but what's the point? What a waste of time trying to help, now that you have added triangles and squares to the menagerie.
In the future, please describe your *entire* problem or situation and not reveal additional critical information in dribs and drabs.
Mindy
Mindy
Robert Severn
Bob
William Adams
> Again -- USE Illustrator! You can drive nails with a wrench, but it's easier with the right tool. You can create any shape you need, add letters, and store the icons in an ID library for use when needed.
So long as one's workflow allows one the leisure of dragging such things in when they're needed --- the inability to place a graphic as part of a paragraph or character style is a limitation in InDesign when doing intricate work w/ specifically fancy elements --- funny that LaTeX is actually better at such.
William
Michael Brady
On May 19, 2011, at 11:21 AM, William Adams wrote:
> So long as one's workflow allows one the leisure of dragging such things in when they're needed --- the inability to place a graphic as part of a paragraph or character style is a limitation in InDesign when doing intricate work w/ specifically fancy elements --- funny that LaTeX is actually better at such.
IDCS5.5 has drag-and-drop inserting of anchored objects. Apply an object style that specifies the Anchored Object's attributes and you're halfway there.
I'm not sure how one could define a graphic as part of a paragraph style. That would be equivalent to using a style to define the letters in the paragraph, wouldn't it?
William Adams
> I'm not sure how one could define a graphic as part of a paragraph style. That would be equivalent to using a style to define the letters in the paragraph, wouldn't it?
It would be something like the Paragraph Rules pane. Except instead of specifying the formatting for the rule, it would allow one to select a graphic to appear at the beginning or end of the paragraph and where the graphic would appear in relation to the text. After would be especially nice for placing end of story dingbats.
I've actually drawn up fonts containing light bulbs (halftoned so as to appear greyscale) &c. for use as icons to mark specific paragraphs which are then called up using the bullets & numbering feature (in a different, proprietary composition system my former employer used).
Michael Brady
On May 19, 2011, at 11:37 AM, William Adams wrote:
> It would be something like the Paragraph Rules pane. Except instead of specifying the formatting for the rule, it would allow one to select a graphic to appear at the beginning or end of the paragraph and where the graphic would appear in relation to the text. After would be especially nice for placing end of story dingbats.
Sounds similar to making a bulleted list by selecting a graphic rather than a glyph from a font.
Kathleen
Please, please, please send snippet to me.
So often I just don't know what the real issue is until the group gives me feedback.
And when I ask for help I try to keep it as simple as possible.
And years ago no one would have know that anchored objects perfectly with tag structure for accessibility. But that you can't auto tag frames that contained grouped objects.
kat
Kathleen
I know ID has interesting strokes that can be created from paw prints, also strange and interesting rules. We just finished a dozen , so I have time to play with my numbered circle, triangle, square icons.
Anyone do any accessibility for screen readers in ID, which is what this is actually about, as my anchored icons are currently perfect, but each is grouped text and circle, square, or triangle.
kat
Michael Brady
On May 19, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Please, please, please send snippet to me.
I've sent Kat the snippet off-list, but if anyone else is interested in int, I have posted the snipped "Icon_numbers.idms" at
http://www.michaelbradydesign.com/Transfer/InDesign_List/
The snippet contains a frame of greek text with three numbers in circles inserted as anchored objects. The numbers are created by a defined list that is part of the paragraph style. The beauty of this is that as you create new duplicate circles, the numbers increase by one.
The coloring of the circle is made by a gradient and bevel effects and stored in an object style, which also records the anchored objects attributes.
Kathleen
Very cool, so how'd you make it, Michael.
kat
Michael Brady
> I opened Michael's circle with numbers inside in CS5.5. But I can't figure out how to select the text. In Story editor no text, but overset.
Do you have Times New Roman loaded?
If so, select the icon with the black arrow. Look in the Object Styles panel. Does the name Number Icon" have a + after it? If so, hold down the Opt key (Control on a PC, I think) and click on the style name to clear the overrides. Does that work?
> Very cool, so how'd you make it, Michael.
Details at 11:00 ...
Michael Brady
On May 21, 2011, at 6:50 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Very cool, so how'd you make it, Michael.
I've uploded a QT movie called "Making_button.mov" to
I've sent Kat the snippet off-list, but if anyone else is interested in int, I have posted the snipped "Icon_numbers.idms" at
http://www.michaelbradydesign.com/Transfer/InDesign_List/
Caveat: The movie file is 18Mb. Also, there are a few skips and jerky movements. But you get a chance to hear my voice.
Michael Brady
I've uploded a QT movie called "Making_button.mov" to
http://www.michaelbradydesign.com/Transfer/InDesign_List/
Robert Severn
Kathleen
Robert Severn
Andrew Brown
understandable consequence of national pride, I suppose... but any
group of elected representatives here in Europe could achieve the same
result, many of them much faster, and at greater cost. Our history
speaks for itself.
AB
Amy Rothstein
http://www.nilvsdcbs.com/labels.html
Please note that I have not read the rest of that web site, it could be full of hot air or brilliant ideas. But I very much like the page above. You?
----------------------------------
Amy Rothstein
a...@pondproductions.com
----------------------------------
William Adams
> Here's a new way to think about the apparently different views of the "left" and "right" in the current parlance. We actually share a lot more than we think we do.
>
> http://www.nilvsdcbs.com/labels.html
>
> Please note that I have not read the rest of that web site, it could be full of hot air or brilliant ideas. But I very much like the page above. You?
I have a hard time w/ the person's inability to spell correctly: ``contridictory'', ``beaurocrat'', ``beurocracy''?
William
Michael Brady
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 AM, William Adams wrote:
> I have a hard time w/ the person's inability to spell correctly: ``contridictory'', ``beaurocrat'', ``beurocracy''?
Correct spelling? That's so hegemonic and privileged.
<s>
Roy McCoy
containing "it's" as a possessive pronoun.
If thats hegimonic and privelidged, to bad.
Roy
Robert Severn
On Jun 2, 2011, at 7:45 AM, William Adams wrote:
> --
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>
Bob
Robert K Severn
Severn Associates
Marketing Services
rse...@severnet.com
"Make a deal with the devil, and you're the junior partner"
Dick Armey
Michael Brady
On Jun 2, 2011, at 8:42 AM, Robert Severn wrote:
> Other than spelling, I have a problem with his equation of government bureaucracy with corporate bureaucracy - the important difference is that the government has guns.
Yes, and criminal process.
Jules Siegel
> I have a problem with his equation of government bureaucracy with corporate bureaucracy - the important difference is that the government has guns.
>
armies. The government is only one of their customers. They also own prisons.
The list could go on. But I don't think this list is a place for that kind of
discussion, although I will add one thought: how would you be having it, if it
weren't for the Department of Defense? Yep, the government certainly created a
shortage of Internet communication when it invented the basis of the Internet
and then later put billions of dollars into deploying it for public use.
Corporations are now lobbying fiercely to create artificial shortages of
bandwidth in order to increase their profits from a government-sponsored system.
--
JULES SIEGEL http://www.moronia.us/
"If it ain't fixed, don't broke it."
Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/
Amy Rothstein
Lobbyists write laws, industry hopefuls staff regulatory agencies. Regulations conceived to protect citizens are watered down until they are pointless annoyances for industries.
Buying elections is not a crime. The military industries have used Eisenhower's warnings as a business plan, and threaten to completely consume the wealth created by other industries.
Case in point: Many American states use voting machines made by the same people that make ATM cash machines. The cash machines are accurate to the penny. The voting machines, not so much. Is that the fault of the private corporation who has a valuable contract for their proprietary voting machines? Or the government who won't just use trustworthy open-software for counting paper ballots?
Whose fault is that?
Robert Severn
Robert Severn
Amy Rothstein
Jules Siegel
> I think you took me literally. Of course many entities have guns. I meant that
> only the government can legally
You are so na�ve.
> enforce their whims by force of arms.
Not true. There are situations in which non-deputized individuals can legally
enforce their whims by force of arms. They don't consider them whims, however,
though others might.
> If a private citizen takes your wallet, it's theft. If a government decides
> that you no longer are entitled to that wallet, they will seize it.
You mean like when it gets stolen? They decide that the thief is no longer
entitled to that wallet and they confiscate it, the rascals!
Have a nice day, Internet viewers...while you still can.
Sam Al-Hamdani
I actually really like that this forum sometimes wanders from the topic, but it's getting all a little political at the moment.
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Sam Al-Hamdani, designer
Lifestyle Incentives Limited, Regent House, Heaton Lane, Stockport, Cheshire SK4 1BS
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Robert Severn
Robert Severn
Sam Al-Hamdani
Michael Brady
On Jun 2, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Sam Al-Hamdani wrote:
> Fair enough. If I manage to come up with a type of formatting called flush libertarian, I promise to think of you every time I use it.
Oh, that's called using the MF Wurd app, making a bulleted list, and then unbulleting it. Vwallah. Random anarchic freedom. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
Heather White
Does anyone use those terms anymore?
I like to, but then when no one understands them, I feel like they might think I'm trying to show off...
-heather
-----Original Message-----
From: indesi...@googlegroups.com [mailto:indesi...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Al-Hamdani
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:04 AM
To: indesi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ID] [OT] left? right?
So am I right in thinking that the relevance of all this is that Robert Severn is flush right, and Amy is flush left? Just checking this is still a InDesign message board? :)
I actually really like that this forum sometimes wanders from the topic, but it's getting all a little political at the moment.
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William Adams
> What about verso and recto? Are liberals verso and conservatives, recto?
pass
> Does anyone use those terms anymore?
Yes.
Just used them in a discussion on usenet:rec.arts.sf.written.
> I like to, but then when no one understands them, I feel like they might think I'm trying to show off...
That others were failed in their training is no reason to dumb down or cease to use the traditional specialized terms of a profession.
Michael Brady
> What about verso and recto? Are liberals verso and conservatives, recto?
Not really, inasmuch as "right" and "left" were first used in the first French Constituent Assembly to indicate where the different parties were sitting. Actually, "liberal" and "conservative" have become very narrowly defined to mean quasi-socialists or quasi-fascists. In England, the Liberal Party is the conservative one! I think of myself as a liberal "in the classic sense" but I am very much sympathetic to conservative proposals (more like a libertarian).
> Does anyone use those terms anymore?
I do. For one thing, it gets rid of the inevitable ambiguity of "right" meaning correct, conservative, and "opposite of left," which itself had more than one meaning. And then there's the problem of "on my right or on your right?"
> I like to, but then when no one understands them, I feel like they might think I'm trying to show off...
Sounds like their problem. Using "recto" and "verso" is technical jargon, well understood in the trade, and ambigue-less. Now and then I run into a designer who measures the layout in inches or millimeters--not so surprising, actually--but I've encountered one or two people who measure type in fractions of inches! That's very strange.
Evans, Rebecca
them in general conversation, though, because I don't expect them to be
widely known outside of publishing.
Rebecca
On 6/2/11 12:38 PM, "Michael Brady" <mich...@michaelbradydesign.com>
wrote:
>Does anyone use those terms anymore?
>
>I do. For one thing, it gets rid of the inevitable ambiguity of "right"
>meaning correct, conservative, and "opposite of left," which itself had
>more than one meaning. And then there's the problem of "on my right or on
>your right?"
>
>> I like to, but then when no one understands them, I feel like they
>>might think I'm trying to show off...
>
>Sounds like their problem. Using "recto" and "verso" is technical jargon,
>well understood in the trade, and ambigue-less. Now and then I run into a
>designer who measures the layout in inches or millimeters--not so
>surprising, actually--but I've encountered one or two people who measure
>type in fractions of inches! That's very strange.
>
>| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
>Michael Brady
>www.michaelbradydesign.com/Blog/ | mich...@michaelbradydesign.com
>www.twitter.com/typehuile | www.linkedin.com/in/typehuile |
>www.facebook.com/typehuile
>
>"Thinking Like a Designer" at https://www.createspace.com/3462255 or
>http://snipurl.com/z43se
>
Robert Severn
Kathleen
kat
On May 21, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Michael Brady wrote:
> Sorry, I forget to edit this message. I left in the paragraph about sending the snippet to Kat. It should read:
>
> I've uploded a QT movie called "Making_button.mov" to
>
> http://www.michaelbradydesign.com/Transfer/InDesign_List/
>
> Caveat: The movie file is 18Mb. Also, there are a few skips and jerky movements. But you get a chance to hear my voice.
Michael Brady
On Jun 3, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Kathleen wrote:
> Michael, how are you creating your cool little movies?
>>
>> I've uploded a QT movie called "Making_button.mov" to
>>
>> http://www.michaelbradydesign.com/Transfer/InDesign_List/
QuickTime, which come with Mac OS. You can make movie using the built-in camera or by capturing the screen movements, and you can record your voice as you do it. Mac has other movie-recording software, but QT allows me to record the screen action.
Arne Gustafsson
4 jun 2011 kl. 01.08 skrev Michael Brady:
>
> QuickTime, which come with Mac OS. You can make movie using the built-in camera or by capturing the screen movements, and you can record your voice as you do it. Mac has other movie-recording software, but QT allows me to record the screen action.
Where on the Internet can you read about how to do that?
Arne
Michael Brady
> Where on the Internet can you read about how to do that?
I just figured it out myself after I saw other people post screen movies. At first, I didn't speak, just recorded the screen actions silently. Then, after making one movie, I heard a mumbled curse word when I reviewed it, and I figured out it was also recording sound.
It's pretty easy to do with QuickTime on a Mac. I imagine Windows computers have equally easy tools.
I suppose there is a tutorial on the Apple site and other places, too.
Harry S. Pariser
Nini Tjäder
Page sizes should be in picas.
Michael Brady
On Jun 5, 2011, at 5:17 AM, Nini Tjäder wrote:
> Absolutely not.
> Only used in the US as far as I know.
>
> On 4 jun 2011, at 05.54, Harry S. Pariser wrote:
>
>> Page sizes should be in picas.
The way I learned it is, the page (trim) size is expressed in inches, but all internal measurements are expressed in picas and type in points.
Nini Tjäder
Here (Sweden) we neither use inches nor picas. For anything. Millimeters yes and points for type.
On 5 jun 2011, at 11.31, Michael Brady wrote:
>
> On Jun 5, 2011, at 5:17 AM, Nini Tjäder wrote:
>
>> Absolutely not.
>> Only used in the US as far as I know.
>>
>> On 4 jun 2011, at 05.54, Harry S. Pariser wrote:
>>
>>> Page sizes should be in picas.
>
> The way I learned it is, the page (trim) size is expressed in inches, but all internal measurements are expressed in picas and type in points.
C F Majors
It is suggested that using points for artwork that will become epubs
is the best universal solution.
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>
--
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Raleigh NC
. . . . . . . . . . . .
Michael Brady
On Jun 5, 2011, at 12:03 PM, C F Majors wrote:
> Am I the last to learn that 1 pixel = 1pt?
I don't know. Is there anybody else behind you in line?
Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio
> The way I learned it is, the page (trim) size is expressed in inches, but all
> internal measurements are expressed in picas and type in points.
Oohh, les Americains! ;-DDD
I believe in the whole Europe (save - maybe - for UK), and certainly here in
Italy, page size is always and only expressed in millimeters/centimeters.
The whole UNI standard (you know? A4 = 210x297 mm, A3 and so on...) revolves
around the metrical system.
It's always amazing, here, reading that someone else is not using it. :-)
C F Majors
William Adams
> The whole UNI standard (you know? A4 = 210x297 mm, A3 and so on...) revolves
> around the metrical system.
> It's always amazing, here, reading that someone else is not using it. :-)
Yeah, and it always freaks me out and irritates me to no end dealing w/ templates which we get from Europe where there's some bizarre gutter measurement and column width (4.233 mm and 60.511 mm for the current 3-column layout).
I've yet to see a written spec for a template for a publication w/ 3 columns which when expressed in millimeters doesn't have some ugly enumeration like the above.
Studio Torii
i think is because of Adobe, which has localized 12 pt by 4,233 mm.
There is also some weirdness in other localized Adobe software: in Acrobat, you can find a resolution in pixel per mm instead of ppi. But in France, we used to use ppi!
Overzealous???
Christophe
William Adams
> i think is because of Adobe, which has localized 12 pt by 4,233 mm.
Well, that's what that dimension is.
I guess you mean that Adobe should have altered the default column width to be something else?
Wouldn't matter, while in this instance it would result in an almost sensible column width (60.5mm), all-too-often dividing by thirds in metric is ugly. That's the advantage of a base 12 or base 72 system, one can divide into more numbers evenly.
> There is also some weirdness in other localized Adobe software: in Acrobat, you can find a resolution in pixel per mm instead of ppi. But in France, we used to use ppi!
Feature request?
Studio Torii
I mean Adobe could have kept 12 pt or use maybe 4 mm…
My feature request is simple: enhance french localization ;-)
Christophe
Bret Perry
>The way I learned it is, the page (trim) size is expressed in inches, but
>all
>internal measurements are expressed in picas and type in points.
Valter a scritto: Oohh, les Americains! ;-DDD
As an "ugly" American I am forced to work in inches because that is the
page size paper is cut to here.
But in practice I use inches only to set up page size, then often work in
millimeters (millimetres, we can't even spell it correctly) or picas
depending on what I am doing.
Similarly I must have both metric and "imperial" wrenches in my toolkit
because nuts come in both systems. They still sell many screws and bolts
in imperial sizes here, so we may never escape. I imagine the rest of the
world doesn't have this annoyance unless they have a passion for antique
American cars...
Bret Perry
Studio IT Manager/Production Artist
ph 626-463-9365
fax 626-449-2201
bpe...@russreid.com
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Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio
> Yeah, and it always freaks me out and irritates me to no end dealing w/
> templates which we get from Europe where there's some bizarre gutter
> measurement and column width (4.233 mm and 60.511 mm for the current 3-column
> layout).
That happens when the "designer" isn't smart enough (or is lazy enough ;-).
I would never create a layout like that; I always make calculations to avoid
decimals (only if unavoidable I would settle with something like 60.5 mm).
The above errors are typical "rookie" mistakes (or by people that doesn't
give a damn). The same people usually compose documents without using
styles, or master pages, and such.
It's not the millimeters... it's the people using them. :-D
Michael Brady
On Jun 6, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio wrote:
> That happens when the "designer" isn't smart enough (or is lazy enough ;-).
There are always ciceros if that inches and millimeters thing is too hard.
>
> I would never create a layout like that; I always make calculations to avoid
> decimals (only if unavoidable I would settle with something like 60.5 mm).
>
> The above errors are typical "rookie" mistakes (or by people that doesn't
> give a damn). The same people usually compose documents without using
> styles, or master pages, and such.
Now you're talking about Word's installed user base.
> It's not the millimeters... it's the people using them. :-D
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Robert Severn
On Jun 6, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio wrote:
> --
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>
Bob
Robert K Severn
Severn Associates
Marketing Services
rse...@severnet.com
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Robert Severn
On Jun 6, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio wrote:
Robert Severn
On Jun 6, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Valter Viglietti - Frame Studio wrote:
C F Majors
using this information in real world applications (like in photoshop)
for building "right sized" images for both print and epub is a new
concept. Never crossed my mind to use points in photoshop to make
pixel measurements easier.
I'm a pica and points gal myself. going to mm would be a tough
calculation for me. i tried to convert in the 80s when the changover
seemed imminent. wonder what happened to that initiative.
> --
> you are subscribed to "InDesign talk" on Google Groups, to post: send email to indesi...@googlegroups.com, to unsubscribe: send email to indesign-tal...@googlegroups.com, for more options visit http://groups.google.com/group/indesign-talk
>
--
William Adams
>> I imagine the rest of the
>> world doesn't have this annoyance unless they have a passion for antique
>> American cars...
I distinctly remember my SAE wrenches fitting just fine on my 1976 MGB.... I think it was my Geo Metro that forced me to buy a metric set of wrenches.
A F Clarke
> I'm a pica and points gal myself. going to mm would be a tough
> calculation for me. i tried to convert in the 80s when the changover
> seemed imminent. wonder what happened to that initiative.
it would have cost the American industry too much to
retool to. So they said then, but is a bit silly today
because much of US manufacturing is performed elsewhere.
At the time, though, it was all made moot and passed on
to the general public by the large number of imported
automobiles into the US, necessitating the adding of
metric wrenches to the garage mechanic's toolboxes. Now
that that has been accomplished, all is well
temporarily, but until we in the US start using -- and
thinking -- metric in everything we do, we will remain
stuck with the accursed fractions and an ignorance that
the rest of the world has come to grips with.
I use picas and points myself. I even use them on small
woodworking projects of less than an 18 inch rule might
measure. Something about no fractions. I suppose that if
I bought a metric ruler, I might attempt to use it, but
I am firmly established in geezerhood and would rather
crab about things as they are instead of how much better
they could be.
Do I remember correctly? Don't we share this
antimetricism with Australia?
Michael Brady
On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:27 PM, A F Clarke wrote:
> At the time, though, it was all made moot and passed on to the general public by the large number of imported automobiles into the US, necessitating the adding of metric wrenches to the garage mechanic's toolboxes. Now that that has been accomplished, all is well temporarily, but until we in the US start using -- and thinking -- metric in everything we do, we will remain stuck with the accursed fractions and an ignorance that the rest of the world has come to grips with.
American resistance to metrification is more fundamental than metric wrenches and Subarus and Vauxhauls. We've had bimensural containers for years, mostly in food and health products. I, for one, haven't internalized my own set of experiential units in the metric system. I have a close friend who is a German native. She's lived in the US for 26 years and is perfectly, even idiomatically, fluent in English. But when we talk about temprerature or weight, she's telling me it's 31 outside and that's way too hot for her, and I tell her I'm up to 250 and she takes a second to realize that I won't break her old-style chairs. For me, my standard of 32 = freezing and 75 = comfortable. When she says it's 30 and I'm standing in my shorts, I have to take a split second to change the calibration units in my mind. When someone says something is 270 mm long, I have to go through a two-step conversion: 270 mm = 27 cm and 2.54 cm = 1 inch, so 270 mm = a little less than 11 inches.
I've already infused the duodecimal system of points and picas into my own innate grasp of the inches system (I thought about calling it the "American imperial system," but that would just inflame political passions! <g>). I can do 6 picas = 1 inch, etc. But not with all things metrical.
William Adams
> Do I remember correctly? Don't we share this antimetricism with Australia?
Nope, Australia converted between 1970 or so and the late '80s. Part of the United Kingdom and all that (more-or-less).
The only countries not using the metric system are the U.S., Liberia, and Myanmar (as was recently shown in a nifty infographic)
William Adams
On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:27 PM, A F Clarke wrote:
> we will remain stuck with the accursed fractions
I actually find fractions far more rational and easier to compare and generally useful than bizarre decimals.
Archery is an excellent example of this, w/ arrow diameters for aluminum arrows having a nifty system which provides diameter and wall thickness in just 4 digits, e.g., a 2013 has an outside diameter of 20/64ths of an inch and a wall thickness of 13/1000 of an inch.
Even the new carbon arrows are still measured in Imperial when fitting accessories (Carbon Express arrows are 19/64ths of an inch), and I find my 29" draw length (and the 28" A.M.O. standard for measuring draw length) far more intelligible than 73.66 centimeters.
Merv Leeding
Down under we a're not part of the United Kingdom and we were ahead in
metrication. No more furlongs, acres or stones.
Money (pounds to dollars) Feb 1966 UK 1971
Measurements (inches to millimetres) 1976 UK 1978
Both changes were official form specific dates, use mandated by
legislation. Initially half inch timber was "12.7 mm" but as factories
converted whole millimetres were used�9, 13, 16, 19 etc. The workshop
manager where I worked gave away all imperial measuring devices to his
staff, including micrometres, the day metric started to force them to
rapidly adopt the new system.
Smallest value coin is 5 cents, others are 10, 20, 50, $1 and $2. Notes
(not "bills") are $5, $10, $20, $50, $100.
On 10/06/2011 2:44 AM, William Adams wrote:
> On Jun 9, 2011, at 1:27 PM, A F Clarke wrote:
>
>
>> Do I remember correctly? Don't we share this antimetricism with Australia?
>>
> Nope, Australia converted between 1970 or so and the late '80s. Part of the United Kingdom and all that (more-or-less).
>
> The only countries not using the metric system are the U.S., Liberia, and Myanmar (as was recently shown in a nifty infographic)
>
> William
>
>
--
Regards
Merv Leeding
Roy McCoy
> Money (pounds to dollars) Feb 1966 UK 1971
?????
Roy
Merv Leeding
of administering territories and with some residual custom we have
administered our own affairs since 1901. There was still a "belonging"
of sorts in 1938 when we hosted the British Empire Games.
Since WW II most former BE territories became self-governing and part of
a loose Commonwealth of Nations. Most Aussies only think of that
Commonwealth in terms of the Commonwealth Games. We have a large focus
on games.
We have state governors and a commonwealth governor general that are
"appointed" by the Queen but we tell her who to appoint. If you saw
anything of the recent royal marriage the feeling of the people to the
the Queen was obvious. Many here still feel the same way but that
doesn't mean they want any interference from her and there is none
really. That will steadily decline as the percentage of those of UK
ancestry decreases.
Melbourne had very large Italian, Greek and Chinese communities�
including a downtown Chinatown� although we tend to say "Asian" these
days for that last section. Mu daughter is at the late stage in the
adoption of a Taiwanese child. Significant Ethiopean and Sudanese
communities as well.
Out largest chemical company where I worked, formerly ICI now Orica, was
until the mid-90s part of the UK Imperial Chemical Industries (similar
to DuPont ins size and scope with many overseas subsidiary), but from WW
II on was unusual for such a subsidiary in the local management meant
that in many areas, particularly research, we controlled the direction
of the business.
Here endeth the lesson <G>. Why not come down to my home state of
Queensland and see the Barrier Reef?
An American from Texas was talking to one of our cattle graziers. "If I
get in my car to drive from one side of my property to the other, it
takes me two days".
"Yeah" said the Queenslander, "I once had a car like that." (Queensland
is not our largest state but is 2.94 times the area of Texas.)
Cheers, Merv
On 10/06/2011 10:17 PM, William Adams wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Merv Leeding wrote:
>
>
>> Down under we a're not part of the United Kingdom
>>
> Sorry, that should've been British Empire, right? Thanks for the correction.
>
> William
>
>
Merv Leeding
Prior to 1966 we used sterling, pounds shillings and pence. Our smallest
note ( = bill) was half a pound of ten shillings.
Going metric we replaced the ten shillings by the term "dollar". Ten
shillings was 120 pence but with 100 units to the dollar we termed those
"cents" and didn't use a somewhat silly term of "new pence" as the
English did. In their case the Pound was still called a Pound,
presumably because it did not change in value. They replace 240 pence to
the old pound with 100 new pence to the pound.
We used 1 and 2 cent coins for some time until their buying power became
vritually nil. With the smallest unit 5 cents, a transaction of 1 or 2
cents is rounded down, and 3 or 4 is rounded up. Banking and other
transactions that don't involve coins or notes preserve the actual cent
amounts.
At the time of metrication the US dollar was worth AUS 88 cents. I had
lived in Cambridge, Mass from 1961-1964 and US folk would send my kids
dollar notes in birthday cards and I had to substitute our dollars and
lost on the deal. Currently the AUS $ is worth US 1.07.
--
Regards
Merv Leeding
Jules Siegel
> Why not come down to my home state of Queensland and see the Barrier Reef?
--
JULES SIEGEL http://www.moronia.us/
"If it ain't fixed, don't broke it."
Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/
William Adams
<snip> excellent and informative history / geography lesson.
> Why not come down to my home state of Queensland and see the Barrier Reef?
I'd love to (even though at the TeX User's Group Conferences the Australians always have the most nightmarish of travel stories). Still trying to find time to visit all of the state and national parks here in Pennsylvania (and then I'll start in on the balance of the U.S.).
On Jun 10, 2011, at 10:42 AM, Jules Siegel wrote:
>> http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm
I'm reminded of the Terry Pratchett gag from his Discworld series where a character asks for a list of dangerous animals in (the Discworld equivalent of) Australia of a magical librarian and is buried under a large pile of books --- revising the question to a list of the animals which aren't dangerous was marginally more successful, resulting in a single sheet of parchment on which was written, ``some of the sheep''.
> An American from Texas was talking to one of our cattle graziers. "If I get in my car to drive from one side of my property to the other, it takes me two days".
>
> "Yeah" said the Queenslander, "I once had a car like that." (Queensland is not our largest state but is 2.94 times the area of Texas.)
An unfortunate result of Mercator and other distorted projections (hey! some graphic design content!). It's interesting how the U.S. and Australia are similar and different at the same time.
Funny thing was when I was stationed in Texas we'd get European Officers in for training who'd purchase 30-day Greyhound bus passes planning on seeing the U.S. over the weekends --- had to explain that if they got on a bus on Friday, they'd reach an edge of the state sometime late enough Saturday that there'd just be time to turn around and come back in time for class Monday (can't recall any Australians though). Usually they would end up seeing the Alamo and the San Antonio Zoo, and a fair number of them went out to Austin for the music scene there at my advice.
William
(who wishes that Amtrak were a more viable travel option here in the U.S.)
Roy McCoy
> [The British replaced] 240 pence to the old pound with 100 new pence to the pound.
Ah yes, they did change the currency, now I remember. But not to dollars.
> We used 1 and 2 cent coins for some time until their buying power became vritually nil. With the smallest unit 5 cents, a transaction of 1 or 2 cents is rounded down, and 3 or 4 is rounded up. Banking and other transactions that don't involve coins or notes preserve the actual cent amounts.
Same here in NL with euro cents. I was at a supermarket last week, the bill was €19.03, I paid with a twenty and a 5-cent coin. Then I noticed that I had a 2-cent and a 1-cent coin and wanted to give her those and get the 5-cent one back, but she adamantly refused to take them. From what she said she wouldn't have taken them even if I hadn't given her the 5-cent one first, as according to her they refused to accept coins smaller than that. I didn't mind the two cents, but the annoyance of not being able to get rid of the small, or should I say tiny, change. I tossed the two coins in when I paid for an ear of sweet corn at a music festival a day or two later (http://www.dunya.nl), so it was no real problem.
Roy
Merv Leeding
Those beaches are not deserted because of those dangers. That's
rubbish�scare journalism. We get the same sort of articles about the
risk of living in the US.
About 60% of us live in half a dozen large cities (Melbourne and Sydney
all > 3 million) . We can go to safe beaches in an hour or so but those
deserted beaches are about 2000 miles from here, access is not easy,
accommodation is mostly nil. Petrol may be at 100 mile intervals.
There are thousands of beautiful beaches that are patrolled by volunteer
lifeguards who warn of jellyfish and sharks. Shark attacks are very
rare. Serious sunburn with unaware foreigners, and inadequate experience
with surfing dangers are the real problem. All schools here promote the
SLIP on a T-shirt, SLOP on some sunscreen and SLAP on a hat. And that
means a wide-brim hat, not a useless cap.
There's a rain forest north of my home town of Brisbane where I took
high school boys "bush walking" through areas where trained soldiers for
jungle warfare in WW II. Yes, there are some snakes that rival the worst
in the world. But a forest ranger who had managed school camps every
holiday for 8 years and there had never had one snake bite incident.
It's more dangerous driving on our roads. Or yours.
Merv
On 11/06/2011 12:42 AM, Jules Siegel wrote:
> On 6/10/2011 9:21 AM, Merv Leeding wrote:
>> Why not come down to my home state of Queensland and see the Barrier
>> Reef?
> http://www.yesaustralia.com/Curiosidades-animaising.htm
>
--
Regards
Merv Leeding
Merv Leeding
It's interesting how the U.S. and Australia are similar and different at the same time.
had to explain that if they got on a bus on Friday, they'd reach an edge of the state sometime late enough Saturday that there'd just be time to turn around and come back in time for class Monday (can't recall any Australians though)
And even that article quoted said at the bottom:
It's very difficult to be a victim of these animals while you are in Australia
(I didn't add the red.)
Merv
Jules Siegel
> It's more dangerous driving on our roads. Or yours.
I don't drive. I gave it up about the time I moved to Mexico. I have been bitten
by a black widow spider. Draw your own conclusions.
Merv Leeding
in Brisbane. In my part of Melbourne they are in most backyards hiding
under old word or uptruned clay pots. Last bite I heard of was 30 years
ago. While they can give a nasty bite they are not aggressive and run away.
This week we had a fatal accident when a guy ran his car into an
electric pole. Not the driver�the pole fell on a pedestrian..
Merv