Francis Clooney’s talk on his books at Chennai: A Vaishnavite-Christian dialogue
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Vedaprakash
Oct 25, 2009, 11:26:40 AM10/25/09
to Inculturation
Francis Clooney’s talk on his books at Chennai: A Vaishnavite-
Christian dialogue
By vedaprakash
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/francis-clooney%E2%80%99s-talk-on-his-books-at-chennai-a-vaishnavite-christian-dialogue/
Francis Clooney’s talk on his books at Chennai: A Vaishnavite-
Christian dialogue
Vedaprakash
Prof Clooney’s lecture had been arranged at F-50 hall of University of
Madras on Tuesday August 4, 2009 at 11.00 am. The lecture program was
arranged jointly by the departments of Vaishnavaite Studies[1] and the
Christian Studies[2], under the auspices of Narasimhachariar’s
Endowment Lecture. Even around 10.50, the hall was empty, as there
were only four or five sitting there. Slowly, around 40 persons
gathered by 11 am of which 3/4th had been Christians of the Christian
Studies department and as well as Clooney’s friends[3]. Of the
audience, the Vaishnavites (Iyengars or Hindus sporting Namam on their
foreheads) had been elders of age above 60 / 70, whereas the
Christians have been young. It is not known as to why the students of
Vaishnvite department had not attended the program. Thus, it is
evident that the program had been dominated by the Christians.
(Note: To understand the proceedings, interested readers and friends
are requested to read the mentioned articles[4], as they have bearing
on the present lecture of Prof Clooney).
G. Patrick, Lecturer, Department of Christian Studies: As a post-
centenary celebration program of University of Madras, several
Endowments were constituted during the year 1984 and Sri
Narasimhachariar’s Endowment has been one of them…… He has been a
Vaishnavite scholar, visiting professor to Mauritius teaching Hindu
Philosophy…….. Thus, under the auspices of the Endowment, Prof
Clooney’s lecture has been arranged and we are happy to invite Prof
Clooney from the Harvard University………. Proof M. A. Venkatakrishnan
has been the HOD of Department of Christian Studies (sic) and we thank
him for arranging the program [Here, there was some commotion, as one
of audience pointed out, he was HOD of Vaishnavaite Studies. An
visibly upset Venkatakrishnan, correcting Patrick by shaking hands].
Oh I am sorry, I mentioned unconsciously……..[a comment from the
audience, telling that it could be “consciously” also…………. Prof
Clooney was starring at that side, where that comment was coming].
There are many programs to take place and I invite all of you to
attend such programs……
Patrick addresses
M. A. Venkatakrishnan[5], HOD, Department of Vaishnavite Studies: Prof
Clooney has been author of many books on Vaishavism and his interest
in Vaishnavism has been remarkable…….. He has written many books on
Vaishnavism and he is an authority…………. He is just like a honeybee
collecting nectar from different flowers………..I thank Prof Patrick for
helping me to arrange this program. It is a lecture of inter-religious
dialogue. The University of Madras itself insists that such type of
“dialogue” meetings should be conducted., In fact, there has been a
proposal to start a separate department to start for inter-religious
dialogue studies. Thus, the inter-religious studies have been
forefront gaining importance nowadays…There will be two lectures with
a break in between with discussion and questions……..
MAVenkatakrishnan, Narasimhachari, clooney and Raghavan on the dias
M. A. Venkatakrishnan, Narasimhachari, Clooney and Raghavan were on
the dias, as Patrick spoken.
Narasimhachari receives purse
MAV, Clooney and Narasimhachari.
Clooney comes to address
Clooney got up to address!
Prof Francis Xavier Clooney: I thank organizers…………I happy to be here
on the occasion of celebrations of 25th year of the Christian Studies
department (started in 1983)…….I know Prof M. A. Venkatakrishna since
1982, when I first met him at Triplicane, who helped me in many
ways………….. He helped me in getting books, materials about my study
abut Vaishnavism………..I also thank Dr Bhooma[6], who is a well known
scholar here, helped me many ways……..I had opportunity to visit many
temples going inside…….and learn bakti……in inter-religious studies one
has to learn from others crossing the boundaries……….People may think
how a Roman Catholic could learn from Vaishnavism………..or they may
think the Christians come here and get information and write
books….superficial learning or understanding would not help, as one
has to read the books completely for better understanding of other
religions. As mentioned, my talk would on two books – The Truth, the
Way, the Life and “Beyond Compare: St. Francis de Sales and Vedanta
Desika on loving surrender to God”[7].
There have been different types of approaches in the inter-religious
studies:
* Some people create walls built in between them…….We are
Christians and we are Vaishnavites and therefore we should not read
about others.
* Allowing others to learn about us, would be a threat to our
religion and therefore, we should not allow others to study our
religion…but not allowing learning others is also a bad idea.
* Our religion is complete and therefore, we need not learn from
others is also wrong.
* The attitude that my religion is superior to yours is incorrect
in 21st century……….
The definition of “Theology” has been some thousands years old……..it
could be simply “faith seeking understanding”………It could be paradox
“faith seeking”[8]..being a believer with questions could be also part
of such definition…….I went to Katmandu in 1973 and returned in
1975…..in 1984 I became Dr Clooney. But I cannot stop my studies. I
continue research and write books, These two books were released last
year and I am going to write a book on “Bhagawat Vishyam”.
One may ask why Vedanta Desika should be taken for comparative study.
Why not Vanamamalai or Pillai Lokachariyar?….Definitely, I think about
a book on them also……..But here, in the context, the study has been
about the “Rahasya Traya Saram” – three mantras of the chapters 27, 28
and 29.
Clooney addresses
The so-called “dialogue” of Discussion and questions: After the first
lecture was over, questions were invited. K. V. Ramakrishna Rao asked
addressing to Prof Clooney and Prof Venkatakrishnan (MAV), “I am K. V.
Ramakrishna Rao from Chennai. I had privilege of having discussion
with Fr Bede Griffths[9], Fr Ignatius Hrudhayam[10] of Ikkiya Alayam,
I hope Prof Clooney must be remembering him and others of course Prof
Clooney whom I met twice earlier and my question has been in the
context of inter-religious dialogue. Both of you have been professors
in the respective studies. Therefore, if each could accept God of
others as one’s own God, then the inter-religious issue can be
solved”. Patrick objected to it and urged to ask question related to
the topic. Rao insisted that it was related to the topic only.
Venkatakrishnan interjected to say that Clooney was making comparative
study and therefore there is no question of telling my God is superior
to yours or inferior etc. Clooney was telling that the question should
be related to his book. Then, Rao asked, “Out of the four mantras, why
you selected only, “Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit”
comparing with the Divya mantras? But Venkatakrishnan told, “Your time
is over”! So the next “questioner” rose to compliment Clooney without
asking any question paving way for the second lecture! Thus, in this
way, the “dialogue” was conducted!
KVR asks questions
K. V. Ramakrishna Rao, an independent researcher who questioned both
professors MAV and Clooney.
In his second lecture, Clooney accepted the fact that when De Sales
was living there was religious conflict between Protestants and Roman
Catholic Christians killing each other. Thus, it is not known in his
Vedanta Desikan period, was there any religious conflict in south
India?
My God is your God and Your god is no God: The dialoguers have been in
the attitude of “My God is your God and your god is no God”. However,
in the inter-religious dialogue and comparative studies, such claims
cannot be made. Perhaps, Clooney himself has noted such point in his
blogs[11]. The quoted Pope’s speech could be noted, as he reportedly
mentioned “God” instead of naming the god[12]. Clooney interpreted,
“What he really means, it might be said, is that “God” is “our Jewish,
Muslim, Christian God,” not “their God.” Unfortunately, here also, the
western religious experts want to exclude the Eastern religions from
their purview, obviously with the concept of “al-kitabia”, the people
with revealed books / scriptures and without. As mentioned by K. V.
Ramakrishna Rao[13], “Theo-centric and theocratic eclectics are
dangerous as nuclear, chemical and other warheads. The concept of “My
God is your God, but your God is no God” does not foster
understanding, co-operation and goodwill.” The concept should be
changed to “Your God is my God and my God is your God,” and accepted
by all religions”. Therefore, instead of allowing Clooney to respond,
Venkatakrishnan has evidently committed a blunder. In fact, as he was
stressing for “inter-religious dialogue” during his introductory
speech, he should have come forward to respond openly, instead of
covering up an important issue. Or if Clooney interprets that such
mutuality of understanding is applicable only to the three religions
mentioned and not to others, then definitely, MAV has failed in his
duty and also prevented Rao from further questioning Clooney. Then,
naturally, the fundamental question is raised, why they talk about
“dialogue” when they do not want or have no guts to have such
“dialogues”?
Section of the audience LHS
Was the program stage-managed by the Christians? The way in which the
proceedings were conducted appeared that the Christians had stage-
managed the lecture-program exploiting the provisions of University of
Madras. The Christians dominated at all levels, in organizing the
program, assembling in strength and co-coordinating at all levels,
whereas, the so-called department of Vaishnavite Studies and the HOD
Venkatakrishnan had simply carried on their wish in arranging the
program. It is not known that the University of Madras wants to
conduct “inter-religious / faith conferences, seminars and lectures”
in this way. The above point raised also questions the very
fundamental of “dialogue”, after all, the dialogue of religions cannot
be done without their gods!
Section of the audience RHS
“The Vaishnavites” failed in the dialogue? MAV should be held
responsible for such a situation, as the suspicion of needle points to
him also. That is why, few days back, I warned as follows:
“Let us have dialogue with him: There is no meaning in hiding or
keeping quite or crying wolf, when he has been very much here. If the
Vaishnavites feel really thyat he has offended their theology through
his books, he should be challenged in Chennai itself without mincing
words. If any such meeting / lecture is arranged, it should be a
dialogue and not monologue. Let him talk for 30 minutes or half-an-
hour. Then, a Vaishnavite scholar or anybody should be given an
opportunity to counter his propositions or arguments the HOD
department of Vaiushnavite Studies department Venkatakrishnan in spite
of mentioning about “inter-religious dialogue” and so on, actually
knows or does not know about it!”
But none cared and ironically, the “Vaishnavites” have only given
platform to Clooney and encouraged such “monologues”. The Pope has
been very clear and Clooney cannot do anything beyond:
“The Vatican II Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-
Christian Religions (Nostra aetate) says ‘The Catholic Church rejects
nothing of true and holy in these religions………yet she proclaims and is
duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth
and the life (Jn 14:6). Besides, the ‘DECLARATION DOMINUS JESUS’ adds,
“the various traditions contain and offer religious element which come
from God, and which are part of what ‘the spirit brings about in human
hearts and in the history of peoples, in cultures, and
religions’” (Art No.21).”
Does MAV aid and abet Nostra aetate and Domininus Jesus? Now, a
serious question rises as to how and why knowingly or unknowingly,
some Vaishnavites should aid and abet the principles of Vatical
Council-II? In a single stroke, Clooney has faithfully fulfilled both
the above points:
* yet she proclaims and is duty bound to proclaim without fail,
Christ who is the way, the truth and the life (Jn 14:6): thus, his
first lecture revolved around his book: “The Truth, the Way, the Life”
So here, he is exposed as, he cannot say that , “Christ who is the
way, the truth and the life” is different from his title of the book
“The Truth, the Way, the Life”
* Ironically, it is said, “Francis Clooney’s commentary is
explicitly Christian and yet deeply indebted to the classic reading of
the mantras by the 14th century theologian Vedanta Desika; it thus
exemplifies an interreligious learning appropriate to the 21st century
and yet, in the end, still deeply Christian”[14]. Then MAV like
Vaishnavites act as collaborators of Cloney?
* Coming to the second point, “the various traditions contain and
offer religious element which come from God, and which are part of
what ‘the spirit brings about in human hearts and in the history of
peoples, in cultures, and religions’” (Art No.21).” Thus, the spirit
that Nammazhwar was talking about is only “the spirit” as perceived by
the Vatican, the Pope and Clooney.
* “Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit:” is nothing but
equivalent to Sri Narayanaya Namaha and SrimanNarayana-caranau-caranau
prapadye and “the spirit” is “Narayana”!.
Only “Narayana” alone could help: Indiuans / Hindus have not
understood the implications of inter-religious / faith dialogue and
inculturation,. Instead of, they have been in their own world and
indulging with the westerners extending all logistic supports. But
what is targeted has been thousands of years old culture, tradition,
heritage and civilization by the conscious Christians. The present
modern world has already demolished their fundamental tenets of
Christianity rendering Jesus a myth. Under such circumstances, in
stead of safeguarding their belief-system, they have unnecessarily but
venomously targeted Hindu religion and trying to confuse all.
Actually, the Christianity is going to get negative results by
indulging in such unethical “theological” experiments.
It is ironical that MAV like Vaishnavas scholars with all their high
qualification could not understand Clooney, as hundreds of his
articles prove how he has been rather an agent of Benedict, the
present Pope. He takes every opportunity and writers / posts a blog
supporting the above Vatican.s agenda of inter-religious dialogue and
inculturation under the purview of “Dominus Iesu”[15].
Vedaprakash
05-08-2009
[1] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/vai.html
[2] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/chris1.html
[3] After the meeting, Clooney was seen with groups of Christians
talking introducing themselves mentioning that so-and-so met him at so-
and-so place and so on.
One American Professor (with ponytail) who was staying at Shantivanam
also came, in fact he was one of the four audience by 10.50 am.
Shantivanam is the controversial “Inculturation” centre, that created
heat discussion during 1980s resulting in the series of books
published – Catholic Ashrams, The Hindu-Christian Dialogue etc., by
Voice of India. There was many letters appeared in Indian Express
(Madras edition) later forming part of the mentioned books.
[4][4] Vedaprakash, How Catholic Clooney became Vaishnavite
Researcher?, dated 31-07-2009.
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/how-catholic-clooney-became-a-vaishnavite-researcher/
………………, “Beyond Compare” and the Christian-Vaishnavite encounters,
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/beyond-compare-and-christian-vaishnavite-encounters/
………………, An Exploration of Inter-religious Understanding: A Hindu-
Christian Perspective, dated 18-07-2009.
………………, Francis Xavier Clooney in Chennai!, dated 17-07-2009
J. K. Bajaj and M. D. Srinivas, Core Issues of Hindu-Christiuan
Dialogue, Idol-worshgip, Cow-protection and conversion, may have been
issued in 2007 subsequent to the “discussion meeting” held on
Wednesday March 14, 2007 at the Centre for Policy Studies.
Dr S. Kalyanaraman, A Note on Comparative Theology as a dangerous
intrusion into sacred space, dated 06-08-2005.
……………………., The Futility of Inter-faith Dialogue – A meeting with
Francis X Clooney, dated 10-08-2005.
[5] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/venvai.html and
http://www.srivaishnava.org/talks/mav/
[6] Dr. Bhooma is wife of Dr M. A. Venkatakrishnan married in 1982. An
avid companion of her husband in all his religious pursuits, Dr.
Bhooma has B.Ed (’83), M.A. (Vaishnavism, ‘87) and PhD (’95) degrees
to her credit. Her PhD thesis was on the topic “The Contribution of
Nanjiyar.” In addition to working as a Part-Time Lecturer in the
Department of Vaishnavism, University of Madras, Dr. Bhooma also
lectures on Sri Vaishnavism at various locations. Dr. MAV and Dr.
Bhooma have one son, Chi. Madhusudhanan, who is a student of BCA at
Vaishnav College, Chennai.
[7] Francis X. Clooney, Beyond compare: St. Francis de Sales and
Vedanta Desika on loving surrender to God, Georgetown University
Press, 2008.
[8] When “faith” is faith, i.e, belief, devotion, commitment,
faithfulness, loyalty, dedication etc., there is no question of
seeking such faith of one group of “believers” about the belief of
other “believers”.
[9] Founder of the controversial “Catholic Ashram” and builder of
Hindu-temple like Church and crucified OM there at Tannirpalli
(Kulitthalai, Karur District) very near to Sri Ramakrishna Tabhovanam
and some 100 kilometres from Sri Rangam! As mentioned, Clooney was
camping there.
[10] Founder of another controversial Ashram at Chennai near to
Mylapore, where Clooney had stayed several times during his sojourn to
Chennai since 1980s.
[11] In Case You Missed It: Pope Benedict’s Most Generous
Interreligious Vision Posted at: 2009-06-02 20:58:08.0 Author: Francis
X. Clooney, S.J.
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=98558261-3048-741E-8226182426431865
[12] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2009/may/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20090511_dialogo-interreligioso_en.html
[13]
[14] http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=8407
[15] Francis X. Clooney, SJ: “Interreligious dialogue is here to stay”
“The Pope Speaks – As If Dialogue is Here to Stay”, by Francis X.
Clooney, SJ. America April 25, 2008:
http://benedictinamerica.blogspot.com/2008/05/francis-x-clooney-sj-interreligious.html
Christian dialogue
By vedaprakash
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/francis-clooney%E2%80%99s-talk-on-his-books-at-chennai-a-vaishnavite-christian-dialogue/
Francis Clooney’s talk on his books at Chennai: A Vaishnavite-
Christian dialogue
Vedaprakash
Prof Clooney’s lecture had been arranged at F-50 hall of University of
Madras on Tuesday August 4, 2009 at 11.00 am. The lecture program was
arranged jointly by the departments of Vaishnavaite Studies[1] and the
Christian Studies[2], under the auspices of Narasimhachariar’s
Endowment Lecture. Even around 10.50, the hall was empty, as there
were only four or five sitting there. Slowly, around 40 persons
gathered by 11 am of which 3/4th had been Christians of the Christian
Studies department and as well as Clooney’s friends[3]. Of the
audience, the Vaishnavites (Iyengars or Hindus sporting Namam on their
foreheads) had been elders of age above 60 / 70, whereas the
Christians have been young. It is not known as to why the students of
Vaishnvite department had not attended the program. Thus, it is
evident that the program had been dominated by the Christians.
(Note: To understand the proceedings, interested readers and friends
are requested to read the mentioned articles[4], as they have bearing
on the present lecture of Prof Clooney).
G. Patrick, Lecturer, Department of Christian Studies: As a post-
centenary celebration program of University of Madras, several
Endowments were constituted during the year 1984 and Sri
Narasimhachariar’s Endowment has been one of them…… He has been a
Vaishnavite scholar, visiting professor to Mauritius teaching Hindu
Philosophy…….. Thus, under the auspices of the Endowment, Prof
Clooney’s lecture has been arranged and we are happy to invite Prof
Clooney from the Harvard University………. Proof M. A. Venkatakrishnan
has been the HOD of Department of Christian Studies (sic) and we thank
him for arranging the program [Here, there was some commotion, as one
of audience pointed out, he was HOD of Vaishnavaite Studies. An
visibly upset Venkatakrishnan, correcting Patrick by shaking hands].
Oh I am sorry, I mentioned unconsciously……..[a comment from the
audience, telling that it could be “consciously” also…………. Prof
Clooney was starring at that side, where that comment was coming].
There are many programs to take place and I invite all of you to
attend such programs……
Patrick addresses
M. A. Venkatakrishnan[5], HOD, Department of Vaishnavite Studies: Prof
Clooney has been author of many books on Vaishavism and his interest
in Vaishnavism has been remarkable…….. He has written many books on
Vaishnavism and he is an authority…………. He is just like a honeybee
collecting nectar from different flowers………..I thank Prof Patrick for
helping me to arrange this program. It is a lecture of inter-religious
dialogue. The University of Madras itself insists that such type of
“dialogue” meetings should be conducted., In fact, there has been a
proposal to start a separate department to start for inter-religious
dialogue studies. Thus, the inter-religious studies have been
forefront gaining importance nowadays…There will be two lectures with
a break in between with discussion and questions……..
MAVenkatakrishnan, Narasimhachari, clooney and Raghavan on the dias
M. A. Venkatakrishnan, Narasimhachari, Clooney and Raghavan were on
the dias, as Patrick spoken.
Narasimhachari receives purse
MAV, Clooney and Narasimhachari.
Clooney comes to address
Clooney got up to address!
Prof Francis Xavier Clooney: I thank organizers…………I happy to be here
on the occasion of celebrations of 25th year of the Christian Studies
department (started in 1983)…….I know Prof M. A. Venkatakrishna since
1982, when I first met him at Triplicane, who helped me in many
ways………….. He helped me in getting books, materials about my study
abut Vaishnavism………..I also thank Dr Bhooma[6], who is a well known
scholar here, helped me many ways……..I had opportunity to visit many
temples going inside…….and learn bakti……in inter-religious studies one
has to learn from others crossing the boundaries……….People may think
how a Roman Catholic could learn from Vaishnavism………..or they may
think the Christians come here and get information and write
books….superficial learning or understanding would not help, as one
has to read the books completely for better understanding of other
religions. As mentioned, my talk would on two books – The Truth, the
Way, the Life and “Beyond Compare: St. Francis de Sales and Vedanta
Desika on loving surrender to God”[7].
There have been different types of approaches in the inter-religious
studies:
* Some people create walls built in between them…….We are
Christians and we are Vaishnavites and therefore we should not read
about others.
* Allowing others to learn about us, would be a threat to our
religion and therefore, we should not allow others to study our
religion…but not allowing learning others is also a bad idea.
* Our religion is complete and therefore, we need not learn from
others is also wrong.
* The attitude that my religion is superior to yours is incorrect
in 21st century……….
The definition of “Theology” has been some thousands years old……..it
could be simply “faith seeking understanding”………It could be paradox
“faith seeking”[8]..being a believer with questions could be also part
of such definition…….I went to Katmandu in 1973 and returned in
1975…..in 1984 I became Dr Clooney. But I cannot stop my studies. I
continue research and write books, These two books were released last
year and I am going to write a book on “Bhagawat Vishyam”.
One may ask why Vedanta Desika should be taken for comparative study.
Why not Vanamamalai or Pillai Lokachariyar?….Definitely, I think about
a book on them also……..But here, in the context, the study has been
about the “Rahasya Traya Saram” – three mantras of the chapters 27, 28
and 29.
Clooney addresses
The so-called “dialogue” of Discussion and questions: After the first
lecture was over, questions were invited. K. V. Ramakrishna Rao asked
addressing to Prof Clooney and Prof Venkatakrishnan (MAV), “I am K. V.
Ramakrishna Rao from Chennai. I had privilege of having discussion
with Fr Bede Griffths[9], Fr Ignatius Hrudhayam[10] of Ikkiya Alayam,
I hope Prof Clooney must be remembering him and others of course Prof
Clooney whom I met twice earlier and my question has been in the
context of inter-religious dialogue. Both of you have been professors
in the respective studies. Therefore, if each could accept God of
others as one’s own God, then the inter-religious issue can be
solved”. Patrick objected to it and urged to ask question related to
the topic. Rao insisted that it was related to the topic only.
Venkatakrishnan interjected to say that Clooney was making comparative
study and therefore there is no question of telling my God is superior
to yours or inferior etc. Clooney was telling that the question should
be related to his book. Then, Rao asked, “Out of the four mantras, why
you selected only, “Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit”
comparing with the Divya mantras? But Venkatakrishnan told, “Your time
is over”! So the next “questioner” rose to compliment Clooney without
asking any question paving way for the second lecture! Thus, in this
way, the “dialogue” was conducted!
KVR asks questions
K. V. Ramakrishna Rao, an independent researcher who questioned both
professors MAV and Clooney.
In his second lecture, Clooney accepted the fact that when De Sales
was living there was religious conflict between Protestants and Roman
Catholic Christians killing each other. Thus, it is not known in his
Vedanta Desikan period, was there any religious conflict in south
India?
My God is your God and Your god is no God: The dialoguers have been in
the attitude of “My God is your God and your god is no God”. However,
in the inter-religious dialogue and comparative studies, such claims
cannot be made. Perhaps, Clooney himself has noted such point in his
blogs[11]. The quoted Pope’s speech could be noted, as he reportedly
mentioned “God” instead of naming the god[12]. Clooney interpreted,
“What he really means, it might be said, is that “God” is “our Jewish,
Muslim, Christian God,” not “their God.” Unfortunately, here also, the
western religious experts want to exclude the Eastern religions from
their purview, obviously with the concept of “al-kitabia”, the people
with revealed books / scriptures and without. As mentioned by K. V.
Ramakrishna Rao[13], “Theo-centric and theocratic eclectics are
dangerous as nuclear, chemical and other warheads. The concept of “My
God is your God, but your God is no God” does not foster
understanding, co-operation and goodwill.” The concept should be
changed to “Your God is my God and my God is your God,” and accepted
by all religions”. Therefore, instead of allowing Clooney to respond,
Venkatakrishnan has evidently committed a blunder. In fact, as he was
stressing for “inter-religious dialogue” during his introductory
speech, he should have come forward to respond openly, instead of
covering up an important issue. Or if Clooney interprets that such
mutuality of understanding is applicable only to the three religions
mentioned and not to others, then definitely, MAV has failed in his
duty and also prevented Rao from further questioning Clooney. Then,
naturally, the fundamental question is raised, why they talk about
“dialogue” when they do not want or have no guts to have such
“dialogues”?
Section of the audience LHS
Was the program stage-managed by the Christians? The way in which the
proceedings were conducted appeared that the Christians had stage-
managed the lecture-program exploiting the provisions of University of
Madras. The Christians dominated at all levels, in organizing the
program, assembling in strength and co-coordinating at all levels,
whereas, the so-called department of Vaishnavite Studies and the HOD
Venkatakrishnan had simply carried on their wish in arranging the
program. It is not known that the University of Madras wants to
conduct “inter-religious / faith conferences, seminars and lectures”
in this way. The above point raised also questions the very
fundamental of “dialogue”, after all, the dialogue of religions cannot
be done without their gods!
Section of the audience RHS
“The Vaishnavites” failed in the dialogue? MAV should be held
responsible for such a situation, as the suspicion of needle points to
him also. That is why, few days back, I warned as follows:
“Let us have dialogue with him: There is no meaning in hiding or
keeping quite or crying wolf, when he has been very much here. If the
Vaishnavites feel really thyat he has offended their theology through
his books, he should be challenged in Chennai itself without mincing
words. If any such meeting / lecture is arranged, it should be a
dialogue and not monologue. Let him talk for 30 minutes or half-an-
hour. Then, a Vaishnavite scholar or anybody should be given an
opportunity to counter his propositions or arguments the HOD
department of Vaiushnavite Studies department Venkatakrishnan in spite
of mentioning about “inter-religious dialogue” and so on, actually
knows or does not know about it!”
But none cared and ironically, the “Vaishnavites” have only given
platform to Clooney and encouraged such “monologues”. The Pope has
been very clear and Clooney cannot do anything beyond:
“The Vatican II Declaration on the Relation of the Church to non-
Christian Religions (Nostra aetate) says ‘The Catholic Church rejects
nothing of true and holy in these religions………yet she proclaims and is
duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth
and the life (Jn 14:6). Besides, the ‘DECLARATION DOMINUS JESUS’ adds,
“the various traditions contain and offer religious element which come
from God, and which are part of what ‘the spirit brings about in human
hearts and in the history of peoples, in cultures, and
religions’” (Art No.21).”
Does MAV aid and abet Nostra aetate and Domininus Jesus? Now, a
serious question rises as to how and why knowingly or unknowingly,
some Vaishnavites should aid and abet the principles of Vatical
Council-II? In a single stroke, Clooney has faithfully fulfilled both
the above points:
* yet she proclaims and is duty bound to proclaim without fail,
Christ who is the way, the truth and the life (Jn 14:6): thus, his
first lecture revolved around his book: “The Truth, the Way, the Life”
So here, he is exposed as, he cannot say that , “Christ who is the
way, the truth and the life” is different from his title of the book
“The Truth, the Way, the Life”
* Ironically, it is said, “Francis Clooney’s commentary is
explicitly Christian and yet deeply indebted to the classic reading of
the mantras by the 14th century theologian Vedanta Desika; it thus
exemplifies an interreligious learning appropriate to the 21st century
and yet, in the end, still deeply Christian”[14]. Then MAV like
Vaishnavites act as collaborators of Cloney?
* Coming to the second point, “the various traditions contain and
offer religious element which come from God, and which are part of
what ‘the spirit brings about in human hearts and in the history of
peoples, in cultures, and religions’” (Art No.21).” Thus, the spirit
that Nammazhwar was talking about is only “the spirit” as perceived by
the Vatican, the Pope and Clooney.
* “Father, into thy hands, I commend my spirit:” is nothing but
equivalent to Sri Narayanaya Namaha and SrimanNarayana-caranau-caranau
prapadye and “the spirit” is “Narayana”!.
Only “Narayana” alone could help: Indiuans / Hindus have not
understood the implications of inter-religious / faith dialogue and
inculturation,. Instead of, they have been in their own world and
indulging with the westerners extending all logistic supports. But
what is targeted has been thousands of years old culture, tradition,
heritage and civilization by the conscious Christians. The present
modern world has already demolished their fundamental tenets of
Christianity rendering Jesus a myth. Under such circumstances, in
stead of safeguarding their belief-system, they have unnecessarily but
venomously targeted Hindu religion and trying to confuse all.
Actually, the Christianity is going to get negative results by
indulging in such unethical “theological” experiments.
It is ironical that MAV like Vaishnavas scholars with all their high
qualification could not understand Clooney, as hundreds of his
articles prove how he has been rather an agent of Benedict, the
present Pope. He takes every opportunity and writers / posts a blog
supporting the above Vatican.s agenda of inter-religious dialogue and
inculturation under the purview of “Dominus Iesu”[15].
Vedaprakash
05-08-2009
[1] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/vai.html
[2] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/chris1.html
[3] After the meeting, Clooney was seen with groups of Christians
talking introducing themselves mentioning that so-and-so met him at so-
and-so place and so on.
One American Professor (with ponytail) who was staying at Shantivanam
also came, in fact he was one of the four audience by 10.50 am.
Shantivanam is the controversial “Inculturation” centre, that created
heat discussion during 1980s resulting in the series of books
published – Catholic Ashrams, The Hindu-Christian Dialogue etc., by
Voice of India. There was many letters appeared in Indian Express
(Madras edition) later forming part of the mentioned books.
[4][4] Vedaprakash, How Catholic Clooney became Vaishnavite
Researcher?, dated 31-07-2009.
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/how-catholic-clooney-became-a-vaishnavite-researcher/
………………, “Beyond Compare” and the Christian-Vaishnavite encounters,
http://vaticanculturation.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/beyond-compare-and-christian-vaishnavite-encounters/
………………, An Exploration of Inter-religious Understanding: A Hindu-
Christian Perspective, dated 18-07-2009.
………………, Francis Xavier Clooney in Chennai!, dated 17-07-2009
J. K. Bajaj and M. D. Srinivas, Core Issues of Hindu-Christiuan
Dialogue, Idol-worshgip, Cow-protection and conversion, may have been
issued in 2007 subsequent to the “discussion meeting” held on
Wednesday March 14, 2007 at the Centre for Policy Studies.
Dr S. Kalyanaraman, A Note on Comparative Theology as a dangerous
intrusion into sacred space, dated 06-08-2005.
……………………., The Futility of Inter-faith Dialogue – A meeting with
Francis X Clooney, dated 10-08-2005.
[5] For details, see at: http://www.unom.ac.in/venvai.html and
http://www.srivaishnava.org/talks/mav/
[6] Dr. Bhooma is wife of Dr M. A. Venkatakrishnan married in 1982. An
avid companion of her husband in all his religious pursuits, Dr.
Bhooma has B.Ed (’83), M.A. (Vaishnavism, ‘87) and PhD (’95) degrees
to her credit. Her PhD thesis was on the topic “The Contribution of
Nanjiyar.” In addition to working as a Part-Time Lecturer in the
Department of Vaishnavism, University of Madras, Dr. Bhooma also
lectures on Sri Vaishnavism at various locations. Dr. MAV and Dr.
Bhooma have one son, Chi. Madhusudhanan, who is a student of BCA at
Vaishnav College, Chennai.
[7] Francis X. Clooney, Beyond compare: St. Francis de Sales and
Vedanta Desika on loving surrender to God, Georgetown University
Press, 2008.
[8] When “faith” is faith, i.e, belief, devotion, commitment,
faithfulness, loyalty, dedication etc., there is no question of
seeking such faith of one group of “believers” about the belief of
other “believers”.
[9] Founder of the controversial “Catholic Ashram” and builder of
Hindu-temple like Church and crucified OM there at Tannirpalli
(Kulitthalai, Karur District) very near to Sri Ramakrishna Tabhovanam
and some 100 kilometres from Sri Rangam! As mentioned, Clooney was
camping there.
[10] Founder of another controversial Ashram at Chennai near to
Mylapore, where Clooney had stayed several times during his sojourn to
Chennai since 1980s.
[11] In Case You Missed It: Pope Benedict’s Most Generous
Interreligious Vision Posted at: 2009-06-02 20:58:08.0 Author: Francis
X. Clooney, S.J.
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=98558261-3048-741E-8226182426431865
[12] http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2009/may/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20090511_dialogo-interreligioso_en.html
[13]
[14] http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=8407
[15] Francis X. Clooney, SJ: “Interreligious dialogue is here to stay”
“The Pope Speaks – As If Dialogue is Here to Stay”, by Francis X.
Clooney, SJ. America April 25, 2008:
http://benedictinamerica.blogspot.com/2008/05/francis-x-clooney-sj-interreligious.html
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