Two Piano Duet
Marguerite Litscher
According to the Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians, there are two kinds of piano duet: "[pieces of music] for two players at one instrument, and those in which each of the two pianists has an instrument to themselves." In American usage the former is often referred to as "piano four hands".[1] Grove notes that the one-piano duet has the larger repertory, but has come to be regarded as a modest, domestic form of music-making by comparison with "the more glamorous two-piano duet".[2] The latter is more often referred to as a piano duo.[3]
The piano duet came to popularity in the second half of the 18th century. Mozart played duets as a child with his sister, and later wrote sonatas for four hands at one piano; Schubert was another composer who composed for the genre, notably with his Fantasy in F minor, D. 940. Jane Bellingham in The Oxford Companion to Music lists other composers who wrote piano duets, including Brahms, Dvořk, Grieg, Debussy, Stravinsky, and Bartk.[3] In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries French piano duets included Bizet's Jeux d'enfants, Faur's Dolly Suite and Ravel's Ma mre l'oye.[2]
oldlayclerk, is there any chance you could upload a blank copy of this piano duet layout on here, for me to use as a template please? I like the sound of having the Secondo on the left, and Primo on the right, like you mentioned, in Dorico!
So, I am starting again with my arrangement of The Nutcracker Suite. I was debating whether or not to do the whole ballet but I decided on the Suite because it is shorter and more widely known than the entire ballet it is based off of.
Some movements such as the March fit almost perfectly into a piano duet not just musically but visually as well. On the other hand, there is the Overture that starts the entire suite at an approximate tempo of 114 BPM and is very complex, with multiple ideas happening at the same time. I couldn't possibly fit all the notes of the overture in a piano duet. That would require at least a quartet of pianists to acheive.
I myself haven't looked at the piano duet versions on IMSLP because that might tempt me to just copy the existing piano duets note for note when I know that not every transcription for the same instruments has the same notes. Yes, they will all have the same basic thematic ideas, but the note for note detail might differ considerably between 2 transcriptions.
Okay, which instruments go on which staves? Do I need a treble clef and a bass clef on both grand staves or can I have one of them just be the treble clef and the other be just the bass clef? Will clef changes be required?
Wait, what clarinet is Tchaikovsky using for this movement? Did I just transcribe a bunch of wrong notes because I went into my default Bb transposition when really, I was supposed to do an A transposition or an Eb transposition? Okay, what note is that again? Reading alto clef and tenor clef is so hard when the only way you have learned them is relative to treble clef and bass clef.
As you can see, there is a lot of thinking involved in transcribing for piano duet and that is just a minority of all the thinking that is going on that I showed in the post. I have gotten advice to go from the orchestral score to an abstract score to avoid the distractions of the different instrument staves and then to my piano duet transcription. But, I don't really have software that can do an abstract score. And I have no idea how else I would do an abstract score.
So besides going first with the abstract score or looking at the existing piano duet transcriptions, how else can I more easily transcribe a complex movement such as the Overture for a piano duet?
And about the transposing problems, did you look for a midi or musicxml or whatever format you could put in an editor? That way, you could change the clefs so you won't kill yourself reading alto clefs.
which instruments go on which staves? Do I need a treble clef and a bass clef on both grand staves or can I have one of them just be the treble clef and the other be just the bass clef? Will clef changes be required?
Next week I am going to be recording a two piano duet and I am wondering what the best way to do it is. I am sort of limited to mics and tracks so i need to get the best sound I can with 4 mics. What I had in mind was one omni mic on each of the pianos with a baffle separating them and possibly two room mics. I'm limited to 2 LD omni mics (of ok quality) 2 SD cardoid's (again of ok quality) and an AT 4033. Thanks
Wes
What kind of music is it--classical, jazz?
What kind of the room, and how the pianos gonna be positioned--'wing to wing', or 'keyboards on the line'? In the first case you might need to take the lid off from one of the pianos, or use one fig 8 (if you can get hold of it) for both pianos. In the second case, you won't need a baffle, as the open lid of the 'front' piano will be a 'natural' one. Are the pianos from the same brand? How different is their sound? Obviously, if you mix Yamaha and Steinway, for example, you will need to mic them for the closest sound possible. Usually, in classical piano duets you want to blend (that how pianists like it to be) both pianos as much as it is possible. Also, keep in mind, that you will hear very nice sound of 'turning pages', if the pianists play with a score-- advise them to make zoomed out photocopies, so more pages could fit on the music rack.
Give more information.
it is classical piano. the room is really good with a vaulted ceiling. the pianos are going to be positioned beside each other i guess "keyboards on the line" taking the lid off is not an option. the pianos are not of the same brand one is a steinway and one is a baldwin, possibly a yamaha. I can't remember. In any case they do sound different. they have memorized their pieces so turning pages wont be an issue.
Since the pianos are different, I would try to make a similar tonal balance, first. The instrument with more projected sound put as a 'front' one. Since you will probably need a distant micing, let 6-10 feet between the pianos. Listen to the instruments and try to decide which one has brighter or darker sound. With brighter piano place your mic closer to the bass strings side, with darker, to the highs. Also, try to tilt the mics towards strings for less projected instrument, and open lid, for more projected one. In short, with micing try to equilze the sound as close as it is possible, then take care of the rest with EQ. Actually, for the close mics I would try your SD cardioids first, and use omni pair with 4033 center mixed to two tracks, as a room reverberation, but you will need to experiment.
I cannot give any recording advice though I know how difficult it is to match piano sounds unless you have an assortment of instruments to choose from and a good technician able to find a happy medium. I once played Ives 1/4 Tone Pieces [Cage was the prepared guy] with one nice Hamburg 9 ft. and a beat up NY 9 ft [with a dull but still rather clangorous sound]. Yuck! Piano condition will play a large role in the overall sound.
I once played Ives 1/4 Tone Pieces [Cage was the prepared guy] with one nice Hamburg 9 ft. and a beat up NY 9 ft [with a dull but still rather clangorous sound]. Yuck! Piano condition will play a large role in the overall sound.
Of course, you are right, Coats--it is my dislexia... I played Ives' three 1/4 tone pieces myself in the concert. It was a very funny experience, btw. We always rehearsed it on normally tuned pianos, and then, only on the day of the concert, the second piano was tuned down. The dress rehearsal was a nightmare. I just could not understand where I am and what is going on! You know, it is like to get wrong glasses. Anyway, it is very cool music.
Marik,
That would be difficult! The newly tuned piano probably wouldn't hold it's first tuning for that long. Ours were tuned 3 times within a week and still had trouble staying in perfect 1/4 tones.
I've played Mozart concertos with 2 pianos in better quarter tone tuning, without the tuner even trying!
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ARCHIVED TOPIC: Banjo and piano duet music
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My wife is learning how to play the piano and I would like for us to be able to play together, with me on the banjo. Does anyone have or know where I can find banjo tab/piano duet music. She would need fairly easy sheet music but anything would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to encourage her playing and as most of us know, playing with others is a lot more enjoyable than by ourselves. Thanks so much for any help.
I don't know of anything available source for piano/banjo duets. You could try looking for piano song books with guitar chords added. This would allow you to at least chord along as a beginning. You don't indicate your playing style or skill level, but you could like begin to pick out the melody as you get more comfortable with the tunes. Focus on tunes in G, C and D, or use a capo to get the banjo into a key and tuning you are comfortable with. Once you work with a few tunes, you may be able to ask for help here by requesting banjo tabs in specific keys you need.
About 70% or so of all the sheet music found here has a piano and second banjo part.
classic-banjo.ning.com/page/scores
Piano parts range from basic root-chord to more elaborate depending on the piece, you will just have to look through them to find some that will work.
Personally, I think a piano is one of the harder instruments to back up with a banjo because a piano is more tonally similar to a banjo than most other instruments. I am sure it can be done effectively but not my first choice of instruments to complement each other.
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