Advice to new owners of a NS260

[Richard Têtu]

My wife and I have finally become Nonsuch owners and we could use any advice this group can offer.

About us: although we have lived on Lopez Island, in the San Juans, for 34 years, we have previously had only one sailboat for a couple years, a West Wight Potter 19. A local sailor showed us his Nonsuch 26 Classic years ago when he was selling it, and we have been yearning for a Nonsuch ever since. Since we are neighbors to Spencer Spit State Park, we have seen quite a few Nonsuches and knew it was the boat for us. We were lucky to be able to become the second owners of Fat Boy, a 1995 NS260, hull #5. It is in Lake Coeur d'Alene as we speak, and we await better weather and higher lake levels to get it moved to the west/wet side of the state. It has never been in saltwater, and only has had freshwater bottom paint, which appears to be pretty worn.

At this point, with the information I gave above, what are some pieces of advice you have for us newcomers? I also have many questions. 

1. Am I correct in assuming that the Yanmar is the freshwater cooled engine? The plate on it is damaged, so it is not possible to tell if there is an "F" at the end of the model number. A photo seems to show an antifreeze tank.

2. The engine has less than 100 hours, but it is the original engine. What should we get done to it before taking it home.

3. We have been told that Seaview North is a great yard in Bellingham. Anybody with a Nonsuch has experience with these folks? Jeff there seems to be a great old-fashioned expert.

4. When restepping the carbon fiber mast, am I correct that we should ask for Spartite to be used?

5. Some experts say that we should have a couple coat of epoxy applied to the hull after having the original bottom paint sanded off and before having new bottom paint applied.

6. Does anybody have experience with Propspeed? We have secured moorage at Spencer's landing, on the North end of the island, and we are told that there is a lot of mussel and barnacle growth there, which would warrant using that product.

7. Most of all, what would you get done to Fat Boy to make sure that newbies are ready for their first real sailboat? For example, we were thinking of replacing all mast lights with LEDs while it is down.

We are not made of money, being teachers, but this is our future retirement boat, and we would rather spend a dime now than a dollar later. We will not get a ton of time on the water at first: we work 80 hours per weeks these days, due to the pandemic and I coach golf; with volunteering in the fire/aid department, we must be realistic about our potential time on the water. 

I apologize for the lengthy message, but I hope that I pre-answered questions that will make it easier to help us out. Any suggestions will be sincerely appreciated.

[Joe Valinoti]

Welcome aboard.  Just about all your questions are probably already answered on the INA website.  I’m assuming you’re a member.  To make things easier for us to respond to questions, note how we sign off our posts -

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

 

 

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[Elizabeth Powers]

Hi Richard,

Re prop speed. Save your money. Instead use Petit Prop Spray.

I asked a local prop guy who sells a lot of Propspeed. It is very expensive and must be done exactly right. He told me he would use the Petit on his own boat. 

I have used Petit for the last three years on our maxi prop and ammvery happy with the results.

Rob Powers

Respite #50 26C

Sidney BC

[Joe Valinoti]

I’ll second that, Rob

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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From: Elizabeth Powers

Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 8:16 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Richard,

Welcome aboard. I was wondering who was going to buy Fat Boy. 

What prop does does she have?

Most people on the West Coast do strip the bottom and apply an epoxy barrier coat. I don’t know what the current regulations in Washington State are with regards to antifouling paint. For a long time they were going to prohibit ablative style bottom paint. Hopefully some one from the state will have some advice on the best paint to use.

I can’t find information to confirm that the engine uses freshwater (not raw water) cooling but I believe that is the case. There is another 260 in Washington State so hopefully Brian can give some info.

Change all of the fluids and filters on the engine. Have a good look at the primary fuel filter. Given the engine hours, she has only had 2 or 3 tanks of fuel in her life. There is a risk that the fuel has sat for a very long time. I would suggest that you replace the belts as well unless you know it has been done recently.

Led lights are nice but some of them will interfere with VHF radio transmissions so you will want to investigate that before changing your anchor light. 

While she is out of the water make sure all of the thru hulls are working properly. If any need replacing she has to be out of the water.

With the mast down make sure all of the blocks on the mast and boom are all spinning freely.

Service the winches. 

Check all of the lines over carefully. They will not have seen a lot of use but they may have seen a lot of sun. 

Do everything that your surveyor said need to be attended to.

I don’t know anything about Spartite so can’t help you there.

I don’t know what batteries you have. If they can be service make sure the water levels are correct. Make sure they accept a charge and are fully charged.

Make sure you sanitize the water system. What you use to do that will depend on the composition of the water tanks. Aluminium has different requirements than plastic tanks.Make sure the holding tank is empty. You might want to have a rebuild kit available for the head in case it needs it.

Look the sail over carefully, looking for any stitching that may be failing. 

If you have an anchor windlass service it and make sure the end of the anchor rode is attached to the boat.  You don’t want to watch the end go overboard.

Fat appears to have low hours and has been well taken care of but many of these things, systems deteriorate with age not just use. Also going over the systems and servicing them will help you become familiar with them. Most you can do yourself with a manual and a bit of time so you don’t have to spend a bunch of money. 

You May find that out on the wet coast ports and hatches will begin leaking water. There is lots of sun in Idaho to eat up the caulking and not much rain to reveal leaks. 

That list should get you started.

Now for a message from my sponsor.  I hope you decide to join the INA and  Nonsuch Niagara North West Association. If you want to join the NNNW association I can help out with that.

  Mark Powers

[Richard Têtu]

Oops, I did not mean to break protocol in my inappropriate signature.

I recently became a member of INA so I could post to this group, among other things. I have searched for data on 260s, but there seem to be few of them, so I did not know if what applies to an aluminum mast on an '81 NS26C would apply to the carbon fiber of a '95 NS260. I also asked a lot of questions because this is a one-owner, freshwater sailboat and its owners were the only Nonsuch sailors on their lake. I would to minimize errors since we are new to this.

Many thanks for all the quick responses; it reminds me of all the help I received when I first got my sawmill. We are deeply grateful for your help and understanding.

Debbie and Richard Têtu

Fat Boy NS260 #5

Lopez Island, WA, USA

[Joe Valinoti]

Debbie & Richard:  Give it some time and I’m sure someone on this discussion list will be able to answer your questions about a Nonsuch as well as how to run a sawmill.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/3c89a99c-15ee-46fa-86f6-8dfa2a2ec7f7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

We do have a member in the Nonsuch Niagara North West Association that runs a portable sawmill.  

Mark Powers

NNNW  (we have you covered)

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hey Debbie and Richard - Welcome to the club.

I'm in Toronto, the centre of the universe, by the way. If you ever re-locate out here, you can join LONA, the Lake Ontario Nonsuch Association. In this group, there is actually a member who has built a portable sawmill right into his boat !! This represents an exciting marriage of sailing a Nonsuch (what could be better..) AND running a portable sawmill.

But, seriously ....  Mark Powers has put together (in his usual manner) a terrific to-do list to keep you guys very busy. You don't have to get it ALL done yesterday .....   Don't worry - our boats are incredibly well-built. 

Enjoy this lovely new boat.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Ernie, it all has to do with size. On the wet coast any tree considered big enough to turn into lumber is way to big to fit on any of the Nonsuch line of boats. 

Debbie and Richard,

My recollection was that Fat Boy had an alcohol fired cook top. If I am wrong on that and you have propane’s system you will also want to give that a through check over.

Mark Powers

[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

100 hours on a 1995 boat?  That's 4 hours a year. Check the hour meter. And run the engine for an hour or to before you head out.   And get the oil tested before you change the oil. Blackstone Labs are a good place to have it done.

On Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 4:19:03 PM UTC-8 richa...@gmail.com wrote:

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Good point about the engine hours sounding low,  Thor.  Might be worthwhile to ask the previous owner about it, Richard.

Congratulations on the new boat, Richard and Debbie!

Can't answer most of your questions, but IMHO on #5, if you're on a budget you can get away with not doing it, but if you want things done right, epoxy barrier coating is the right thing to do.  We don't have huge problems with bottom blistering and water penetration into the fiberglass, but a good epoxy barrier is key to reducing the risk.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143

[Brian Berdan]

Welcome Richard and Debbie,

You've made a great boating choice for our waters.  As Mark Powers said, my wife and I here in Washington have had our 260 (#7) since 2002.  Mark, as usual, has shared a wealth of prudent judgement. Here's what I can add:

Epoxy Barrier- Although our boat was less than 7 years old when we got her, I decided to strip the hull to bare gelcoat because I like to get into trouble.  We found that some areas of the paint were not adhering well- suspected they missed the time window of applying the bottom paint over the 'skip-sand' primer.  I attempted to strip it all myself, but ran into a deficit of willpower brought on by temperatures in the 90s. I then applied three coats of Petit epoxy barrier, then two coats of hard bottom paint, first one being blue so I could always know if I'd sanded down to that layer.  Have had great luck with bottom paint (last one Seahawk Sharkskin, recommended by Seaview West in Seattle). I coat every 5 years (!), and have it scrubbed once a year.  And yes to the prop and strut paint (Velox Pro Coating is what I have now).

Mast Spartite- If it's like ours, then you have Spartite already and the mast slips out of it and slips right back in (with a little soap lubrication). But maybe ours was a special order.  I pulled my mast four years ago for a complete update of electrical thingamagigs and a repaint, since the flexing of the mast turned the surface completely speckled. Inspect around the deck level- we thought we found a crack, but it was just in the cosmetic coating.  Our mast had broken at the midpoint in its first year of life and was repaired by the manufacturer, Composite Engineering.  Been to the top many times, with no fear... well maybe a little is good.

Battery- If you have regular wet cells, I'd replace them with AGM when the time comes, as getting down there behind the engine to check and topoff was a pain. Also, I've heard that open cell batteries offgas and harms the rubber on the PSS Shaftseal on the propshaft (which is a great addition if you don't have it).

Yanmar- We have the 2GM20F, so fresh water system.  Cleaning out the exhaust mixing elbow every 3-5 years or so, and replacing every 8-10 years, is necessary to avoid overheating in fog in the middle of the Strait shipping lanes. Minimal issues really, just oil and coolant change mostly.  Note- there are no anodes on this engine, and no glow plug- just a great simple machine.  Second on the engine oil test (Blackstone Labs, $30). Just got mine back and reassured to see all in good health.

Other issues- Leaks to be fixed and watched in these places: overhead hatches that can drip down into mysterious places; portholes; hole where anchor chain goes down (nautical term, please, Mark)- I needed to dig out some of the deck core around it and epoxy seal (took me a while to find the leak and the mold in the chain locker); companionway hatch cover- resealed the screws underneath.  Check the emergency tiller operation- the rudder post extension had slipped down too low (I believe that's what happened).  You probably have the Edson steering pedestal- open up the top and grease it and ensure it's sealed well. I had to replace the two bearings (regular steel balls), which was a tough job.  Curious how your settee converts to a bed; I can show you what I did if you want specifics. The factory was about the go under while finishing our boats and cut some corners, though overall the build is incredible, very robust, and still beautiful IMHO.

We love our boat and look forward to many more years of enjoying it.  Hopefully, we'll meet at the NNNWA rendezvous.

Cheers,

Brian & Susan Berdan

"Blue September" 260 #7

Bainbridge Island, Washington

[Richard Têtu]

Thanks for the clues, everyone. I made the silly remark about the sawmill earlier, but it is actually fitting in some ways. Humbly admitting that you don't know much when there are a bunch of experts and knowledgeable people on a forum is a lot smarter and easier than finding problems halfway across Rosario Strait. After thousands of board feet, it worked for the sawmill, and now with our Nonsuch, I can't begin to tell you how much less stressed we are when getting all this help.

To Mariner's Cat V, I actually can believe the 100 hours. The folks from whom we are buying Fat Boy were the original owner and it has been on Lake Coeur d'Alene all its life. The motor was basically used to get in and out of their slip, and that's it. From the photos I am posting, you can see that the boat was very gently used and that going out to sail is simple for them. Hoses and belts have been replaced since the photo was taken, and Jeff at Seaview North will go over the engine before we sail home from Bellingham.

To Brian Berdan, thanks for all the clues, since you are, I believe, the owners of the closest 260 to us. I will, if I may, have to ask for more insights later on.  I simply don't know what I don't  know yet.

To all others, it looks like you remember how it may have felt when you took the jump, so please understand that we do not take for granted the time you spent helping us. Our most sincere gratitude goes out for your kindnesses.

By the way, did I get the signature right? And how in the heck do you save it on Google Forums? 

Debbie and Richard Têtu

Fat Boy NS260 #5

Lopez Island, WA, USA

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

What a hell of nice boat and in a lovely spot. That engine actually looks like it has THREE hours on, not 100. You guys ar gonna love this little ship.

A truly smart purchase !!

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Howard C. Wright]

Hi Richard and Debbie,

Congratulations on your boat.

I'm glad to see that there's another Nonsuch 26 in the San Juan Islands.  There are now 3 26's in Friday Harbor, mine being in Shipyard Cove Marina, so having another one on Lopez Island will be great. We have only had "Merrythought" since summer, and have much to learn, yet. I'm looking to pull my mast, to work on it (it hasn't been pulled for 5 years since the previous owner had it shipped from the Great Lakes.  I'll be very interested to hear how your experience with Seaview North will go. I've heard good reports from a trawler owner, but have no idea if they have ever experienced Nonsuches and dealing with the stand-alone mast.

I hope your shipment to the Puget Sound area will be a success!

Howard & Celina Wright

NS26C Merrythought

Friday Harbor, WA

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[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

If that is the case, get the oil tested , maybe change the oil and after 10 hours send it off for a test.  The good news is low hours, less good news is these engines like to get hot and stay hot.   The oil test will tell you where you stand.   Let Blackstone know the engine history.

Ideally engines should be run at least 60-75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

Problems of running at low loads include :-

• Internal glazing and carbon build
• Low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing

This poor combustion leads to soot formation and un-burnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, which causes a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the  low pressure.

Oil testing will sort some of this out for you.

My experience with oil testing, dino based oil is done after 50 hours, synthetics around 80 hours.  Engine manufactures base the 100 hour intervals on tractor usage not marine.  

[Joe Valinoti]

Richard:  In regards to the signature, I use an email client (Window Live Mail) for these discussion list emails and it gives me a choice of signatures that I installed which I need for the various organizations I belong to.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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From: Richard Têtu

Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 3:29 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: Advice to new owners of a NS260

 

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