Which Stuffing Box to purchase for Nonsuch 30 Ultra?

[Bill Cunningham]

We just repowered Catnap with a new Yanmar engine and installed a new, replacement Volvo Penta dry shaft seal. Something didn't go right and the seal leaked badly.  Catnap is back on the hard and we're thinking of going with a traditional stuffing box. I understand that the new ones use graphite and are quite reliable.

Can anyone recommend a specific stuffing box that fits with the standard prop shaft?  I'll measure the prop shaft to be sure but the original Volvo Penta seal that worked for years was a 25mm size. 

Were Nonsuch prop shafts 25 mm or 1 in (25.4 mm)?

Thanks,

Bill Cunningham

[Joe Valinoti]

Bill:  You didn’t say where you were in your post.  There may be some other Nonsuch owner near you that could help.  Whenever I order parts for my NS30 with a W-27 the size I give for the shaft is 1”.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Bill Cunningham]

Hi Joe,

I'm in Connecticut.  Looking at stuffing boxes, they don't appear to make them except for one where the diameter of the hose may be too big.  It appears that stuffing boxes have been replaced by PSS devices. Anyone using them and, if so, which ones? That idea is starting to appeal to me ;-)

[Brian M. Godfrey]

   A conventional stuffing box requires occasional fussing to keep the correct pressure on the packing so that it holds out the water without heating up the shaft.  An unpleasant thing to contemplate with V-drives, given the restricted working space down there beneath the engine.
   I have a PSS in my boat.  It replaced an existing one which had a stiff boot.  The rubber boot that covers the mechanism can harden after years of use.  Either it or the entire seal needs to be replaced at that time.  Aside from that, it seems to be pretty much set-it-and-forget-it.  I was told that it might drip a bit for a few engine hours until the mating surfaces honed each other down, but mine has never leaked a drop.  So I think there's a reason they are replacing stuffing boxes.  :-)

--Brian M. Godfrey
  Vela, NS33 #77, San Diego
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Bill Cunningham]

Latest...

Thinking that I might be better with a PYI - PSS Shaft Seal #02-100-112
Shaft Size - 1.000"
Stern Tube Diameter - 1.500"- 1.625"

Do you need to cool with water from engine or is RPM low enough you don't?

[Brian Godfrey]

   I honestly don't remember for sure, but I don't think mine has the cooling line attached.  You should get a more expert opinion if you are unsure. 

Brian Godfrey

-- Brian Godfrey

[Don Crossley]

This is the kit I used to service my PSS shaft log this spring, No. 07-100-134R PSS 1" LOG 1-3/4" Maintenance Kit. My boat is a 1987 30U, Westerbeke with V-drive, 1" shaft.

Don

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

They do require water to cool them.

The early PSS seals could run without water injection when used on sailboats. If you did not have water injection you had to burp the seal when the boat first went in the water. Burping involved pulling the bellows back so water could push the air out. On the 26 that required climbing into the cockpit locker and squeezing down to the back of the transmission. When I replaced the seal I installed water injection so I no longer need to burp the seal.

I can’t get the copy and past to work so can’t add the link. If you go to PYI and search under the PSS heading, keep going into the “More Info” you will find the section that says water is needed for cooling and lubrication. 

Mark Powers

[Joe Valinoti]

I don’t like dripless seals myself, Bill.  When they fail, it can be catastrophic as opposed to stuffing boxes which will just drip.  Also, you need to haul out to repair/replace them but not so with the packing style.

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

As you can gather from the posts above, this is a topic where there's a wide range of opinions and preferences.

One of my mottos is that when intelligent people disagree, there's a good chance that all are right -- just in different circumstances.

That said, I've had PYI's PSS dripless on multiple boats, never had a problem.  The water lubrication that Mark recommends is extra protection and does eliminate the initial burping when going back in the water.  And, the cap they tell you to buy if you don't install it is surprisingly expensive.  However, the last time I looked at the PYI documentation, they said water lubrication was really only mandatory for boats that exceed 10 kts under power (i.e., in your dreams for our Nonsuches).

Joe has a point that failure would be bad.  The situation in which that could occur is if the collar on the shaft (which PYI refers to as the, "rotor") were to somehow slide up, stop compressing the bellows attached to the stern tube, and thereby lose contact with the "stator" (the matching frictionless plate).  Water would then comes through the resulting gap, just as it would if your stuffing box was to come unscrewed and unstuffed.  

However, just as stuffing box flanges can be prevented from unscrewing by proper installation, you can avoid the small risk of the shaft attachment sliding up from proper installation.   Their shaft collar goes in with two cupped set screws, one on top of the other.  The first one holds the collar to the shaft, the second one keeps it there.  Don't reuse those screws, they depend on having a shape that binds them well to the shaft the first time, but doing so changes the shape so they're not good a second time.  

For not very much money, you can also get an extra shaft collar either from PYI or from a reputable outfit like McMaster-Carr.  If you want extra insurance, install that immediately forward of the PYI PSS shaft collar.  Then your pants have both a belt and suspenders and you won't get caught with them down.

Joe is also raising an important consideration in mentioning  that major repair/replacement has to be done out of the water.    In addition, although he didn't mention it, the set screws are the only component you can replace with disconnecting the shaft.  All the other components slide into place around the shaft and shaft log.    Depending on how hard your shaft is to disconnect and how hard it is to do a realignment afterwards, that can turn into a real cost.  On the other hand, this is something you'd need to do around every 6-8 years or so.  I, for one, haul my boat considerably more often that that anyway.  So that aspect of the stuffing box vs. dripless choice comes down to whether you want to spend some time and money every season vs. spending somewhat more time and money but having to do so less often.

There really isn't a wrong choice, just tradeoffs IMHO.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

 

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

Lad drop seals get good reviews, I’m thinking about doing that way. 

https://lasdrop.com/

[Joe Valinoti]

Great explanations of the pros and cons of both, Bob!!

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[ed.b...@gmail.com]

We removed our stuffing box and replaced it with a PSS dripless seal.  This is our second season with the new seal.  So far it is performing as expected. 

One of our boating neighbours installed his seal ~15 years ago and has had no trouble with it and claims he has not done anything with it since it was installed.

 

…..Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat - NS30U/322

Sarnia Yacht Club

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[Ward Woodruff]

PYI instructions for periodic bellows replacement.  

Ward Woodruff

413-847-0620 cell

On Jun 24, 2024, at 5:39 PM, ed.b...@gmail.com wrote:



We removed our stuffing box and replaced it with a PSS dripless seal.  This is our second season with the new seal.  So far it is performing as expected. 

One of our boating neighbours installed his seal ~15 years ago and has had no trouble with it and claims he has not done anything with it since it was installed.

 

…..Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat - NS30U/322

Sarnia Yacht Club

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[Paul Miller]

FWIW I have the one I took out of my boat when I installed my PYI seal.  I’ve cleaned it up and it’s fine to go. If you want to go that way. PM me.

Paul M 

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.