Future boat design

[NICHOLAS HIRST]

My interest is developing a future for a wonderful, adaptive and flexible design which all models of Nonsuch are. I bought my 1990 Nonsuch U for many of the same reason Gordon Fisher commissioned the design - spacious, easy-to-sail with good performance. The boats are vintage masterpieces but are getting old and yet there is a new generation of owners. The design offers flexibility of sailing that is rare. Repeating building the way Hinterholler built might be so expensive it would not be competitive but the design itself is. So how do we make a future of the class? It is a vital discussion if we believe in the brand and want it to continue.

Mirthin #513

RCYC Toronto

[Bruce Clark]

I kept my previous boat (Bristol 45.5) at Wiggers for a couple of winters. Out of curiosity, I asked how much a new Nonsuch would be and was quoted around $330,000. Now those are Canuck bucks but still. Building. largish boas is just an expensive proposition.

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

   How long ago was that?  Today that would be $239,712.33 in US dollars.   I assume you're talking about an NS30.  I just did a quick look and the closest comparable I could find in a brand new production boat would be a Catalina 315.  Base price on that boat as advertised on Yachtworld is US$231,800.  I don't know how the Wiggers equipage compares to the Catalina.  The Catalina's base model is fairly well equipped.  And I don't know if the interior joinery and overall fit and finish match what Hinterhoeller put into their Nonsuches or how that compares to the Catalina.  But that quote seems very reasonable for a brand new custom sailboat.  Yeah, more than I can afford for sure, but if I could afford a new sailboat I would probably never have heard of the Nonsuch and would be sailing around in some Catalina or Beneteau.  (Maybe not a Beneteau.  The interior-by-IKEA esthetic did not appeal to either me or my wife.)

--Brian M. Godfrey
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Bruce Clark]

That was about eight years ago, so the price would be much higher today.

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[Randy Gadikian]

I am toying with interior redesign ideas for my 26C.   Ideally I would modify it to be more like a 26U, but those changes are probably beyond my skill set.  I use my boat more as a day sailor than as a cruiser, as I suspect most of us do.   I doubt I will ever buy another sailboat but I do see a great deal of potential in rebuilding these interiors to create a more desirable cabin.  Obviously there are some limitations as to what is possible, but if you compare a 26C or a 30C  to the U  model of the same length it is easy to generalize the changes.  Smaller holding tanks, smaller fuel tank, smaller water tank. Eliminate bunk areas to create more active space in the cabin.

One thing I would like to do would be eliminate the protruding L of the galley to open up the cabin.  I am not cooking large meals aboard, so I could get away with a smaller Ice box for example and a smaller sink as well, so the galley area can become a line as opposed to an L.  I have eliminated propane from the boat, so my cooking surfaces can now be portable.  A butane powered burner and an electric hot plate.

I don't need the tremendous volume of the ice box, so a smaller, more accessible fridge would be great.

The fine folks at Wiggins Custom Yachts have told me that it is possible to eliminate the post in front of the galley as the cabin top is plenty stiff enough to support itself and a person or two on the cabin top.

If you gut the cabin entirely then the possibilities are endless. You can create your own Nonsuch 26S, for special.

Randy Gadikian

Phoenix Rising

1982 26C #37

Buffalo, NY

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Randy,

I wonder if there's some way to set up a modular interior structure so that a new interior is reconfigurable.

Not only might this give an owner an opportunity to adjust for different uses, but it might impact resale value because  potential buyers would no longer necessarily be limited to those who liked the current layout.

That said, a big consideration in interior layout is making sure that the weight distribution stays balanced and doesn't change the boat's trim.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Reconfiguring the inside of any Nonsuch is certainly doable as the hull is not "under pressure" from taut standing rigging and essential bulkheads throughout to keep the hull from "imploding". Think: Guitar or Violin. Put inelegantly, its like a stinkpot (power boat) with a hole in its deck and a telephone pole dropped into the hole - no pressure.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Paul Miller]

You can’t really move bulkheads around. We have moulded liners with recesses for the bulkheads. You can do some basic remodelling within the given bulkhead structure but you can’t for example strip out a classic and make it into an ultra.

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Paul,

Someone going down the radical reconfiguring route would indeed need to be messing with the liners.  However, to the best of my knowledge, neither the liners nor the bulkheads are structural components. 

I've seen remodels where people stripped the interior down to the floorboards and cut out parts of liners.  Just fantasizing here, I could see someone doing that but -- instead of stick-building a new custom interior -- they start with a floor and sides that incorporate rails and other attachment points.  These could then enable connecting interior components as needed.

So, it's not something I'd do given my personal skill set, but it's not impossible to imagine that someone could do it and provide the elements allowing others to follow.

I don't believe you'd want to, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone with your skills could pull it off if they felt like it.

This is all, of course, IMHO/FWIW speculation to which multiple additional disclaimers apply.  The quality of the above thoughts would probably be improved with beer, or at least would feel like they'd improved if enough beer were added.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Paul Miller]

Thanks for the compliment Bob but It’s not something I would ever attempt. There comes a point in major reconstruction where someone with the skill set would have to consider whether the result would be worth the effort. I’m not a fibreglass guy but I have seen lots of wooden boat restorations that entailed far more work than would have n been required to simply build from scratch.

Ripping out the cabin top liner alone is a major commitment to a massive amount of very unpleasant work that would result in a very expensive, still 30-40 year old boat.

Personally I think the layouts designed by Mark Ellis “ain’t broke”.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay B.C.

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

I agree with Paul. I think that randy's "project", while doable (?), sounds like a project almost for the sake of a project because the volume of work will be A LOT.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Randy Gadikian]

Ernie,

My boat has been nothing if not a project.    So far I have:

Replaced the batteries and the battery charger.

Pulled the shaft, removed the prop and replaced the cutlass bearing as well as the stuffing box. Naturally everything was literally coated with anti seize upon reassembly.

Cleaned the fuel tank.

Replaced the electric bilge pump,

Rebuilt the manual Whale Gusher bilge pump.

Removed the manual water pump and the electric water pump.  

Replaced the rudder gussets, which entailed removing the rudder and quadrant.

Removed two leaky water tanks.  (I am replacing one of them in the fall) 

Removed old Data Marine instruments and through hull openings.

Removed the sinks for refurbishment. 

Washed the interior cushions, removing a great deal of filth.

Rebuilt the entire bow due to much rot.  

Rebuilt the hatch and replaced the lens

Rebuilt the sliding hatch with a new lens.

Made new hatch boards. One set plywood, one set acrylic.

Installed a new bow rail on the existing pulpit.

Replaced all rigging,

Replaced all blocks.

Replaced the sail.

Rebuilt the cabin top, replacing the teak rails with stainless.

Removed the eyebrow, filled and fared the holes.

Replaced the head.

Removed the propane system, water heater and stove.

Refinished the really cool teak rimmed wheel.

Relocated and  replaced all winches with new Anderson self-tailing units.

Installed line clutches on the cabin top.

Removed the cleats from the cabin top.

Re-bedded all deck fasteners.

Painted the decks and cabin top with Alexseal paint.

Replaced DC Ground wiring and installed a new DC electrical panel.

Installed an AC panel along with a plethora of outlets.

Removed the extension cord wired to an outlet that previously provided AC to the boat.

All of this is in addition to normal maintenance of the engine, etc.

I still find some time to sail as well.

At this point there is not much that scares me about working on and changing an old boat.  It may sound sick, but I really enjoy making significant "improvements"  to my old Nonsuch.

Next up - a new galley,  maybe an anchor windlass.

Everything we do on these  boats is a learning experience and  perhaps an opportunity to make the boat function better for our  specific needs.

Randy Gadikian

Phoenix Rising

Nonsuch 26C

Buffalo, NY

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Sounds like Phoenix has risen pretty far on your watch, Randy!

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status