Local pressure test/repair heat exchanger - Stamford?

[Peter Grabow]

Good Morning -

My W27A is losing coolant. I replaced all of the hoses 2 seasons ago (which stopped the slow loss of coolant I was experiencing back then) and there is no indication of leaking coolant on, below, or around the engine. After running at approx 1200 rpm for an hour and a half, and then sitting overnight, the overflow bottle level had dropped by roughly 25%... it has done this previously earlier this season.

I suspect that the heat exchanger has a hole in at least one of the internal tubes and the coolant is mixing into the seawater that is being expelled.  When I first started the engine prior to running it (at the dock) for that hour and a half, I noticed that the raw water exiting the transom was a bit foamy-ish looking... is seemed to clear after a minute of three to just looking like seawater.

Does anyone know of a reputable radiator shop to which I can take the heat exchanger for pressure testing/repair (filling the offending tube(s)) that is local to Stamford, CT?

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Stamford, CT

[Joe Valinoti]

Peter:  Westerbeke has a bulletin on that subject - concerning loss of coolant and not being able to find it.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Peter Grabow]

Thank you Joe. I will check it out.

Also, I contacted Hinckley Yacht Service in Stamford, CT - they said they do not recommend repairing/filling the offending tube(s) as the repairs will fail eventually. They say that they only replace the heat exchangers now (not to mention their estimated cost to test is much higher than the estimates for an automobile radiator repair shop) -   thoughts on this? 

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Peter,

Don't know if this will help you or others, but ( HERE ) is a link to a pictorial  that I found useful in understanding the challenges of maintaining Soave's heat exchanger.  

My tendency is also to pursue repairs over replacement, but Soave is slowly teaching me that replacement of parts that are at or near end of life is often cheaper in the long run and simplifies maintenance and diagnosis of future problems.

Good luck, 

Rob

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Cedar Point YC

Westport, CT

[Ward Woodruff]

Peter,

If you want to be frugal:

1.  Remove the heat exchanger from the engine.

2. Identify the two engine side connections on the heat exchanger or the two sea side connections - it does not matter engine or sea.  You just want to work with one or the other.

3. Get some hose that fits those connections.  That could be the hose in service on the boat.

4. Place appropriate size hose on the identified connections.

5. Plug one hose.  You could use a pipe nipple and cap of a diameter that will fit the hose.  Camp plug in place.  Clamp all hose connections you make.

6. On the other connection, install a pipe nipple, coupling and bushing to get to 1/4" pipe size female.  insert a 1/4" pipe nipple.  To that nipple connect a 1/4" pipe tee.  In one of the other tee connections install a 1/4" mpt X Schrader valve (connection for a bicycle air pump). In the other connection, install a 0-30 PSI pressure gauge.  Use pipe thread sealant on all threaded connections.  Hardware store or online for all the parts. I'd for sure go online for the schrader valve and gauge.

7. Connect a bicycle pump to the schrader valve and pump until the gauge reads 20 PSI. Remove the bicycle pump and cap the schrader valve.

8. Does the gauge pressure hold steady?  If so the HX does not leak.

9. Does the gauge pressure fall?  Get some soapy water and coat all the hose and fitting connections you made to rule out external leaks.  Coat all of the hose as well.  There could be a hose pinhole. If you find external leaks in the hoses and fittings you assembled.  Fix those leaks.

10.  Once your work is leak tight, if the gauge pressure falls, buy a new heat exchanger direct online.

Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

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[Joe Valinoti]

I suggest that you listen to Hinckley and replace it.  If you get the exact replacement, it will be an easy job.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/e184fea8-cf8f-4f57-a2e6-3d2460027d9cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Peter Grabow]

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the above.  I have found Rod Collins' information to be very useful over the years, and used this particular article years ago to guide me when I realized the end caps on the heat exchanger were leaking, etc.  Rod didn't say anything negative about pressure-testing/repairing, so doing this provides an extra few+ years, I may just go this route right now, if I can locate a competent shop in the Stamford area... we'll have to see what the results are from testing.  I just don't know at this time if the heat exchanger is the problem. I have to read the Westerbeke bulletin that Joe Valinoti mentioned above to better educate myself.

But, my instinct in many cases is the same as yours - with the majority of parts being 38 years old, it is making more sense to replace.

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III 

[Ward Woodruff]

If the end caps leak, you will leak seawater into the boat.  The engine/antifreeze side will not be affected.

Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

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[Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC]

A new one is $1000.   

https://www.go2marine.com/Westerbeke-Replacement-Heat-Exchanger-with-Mounts-Copper-Nickel-038300CN_2

If you want it tested call your local Caterpillar Tractor dealer. They will most likely do it or refer you to someone reliable. 

https://www.hopenn.com

I'be be inclined to replace it if  the test showed it was leaking....

Cat also sell excellent diesel rated coolant.  

[Cedric Guthrie]

You could do one or two tests

1. Catch water from overboard cooling discharge and easy then to see if coolant there

2 Get Cat or someone to do oil sample test- it has been known for Westie’s to have a leak from cooling into lube oil

Safe Sailing

Cedric. Single Malt  26C

#207 Chester NS

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 23, 2025, at 11:08, 'Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

A new one is $1000.   

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[Don Ringsmuth]

If you have a water heater in line, that can be the source of the problem.  I once loaned my pressure sensor to a friend who was losing coolant.  When the pressure dropped, I assured him it was the exchanger.  Turned out it was the water heater.

On a Bristol 38.8 I once owned the loss of coolant problem was a minute cylinder head crack!

Don Ringsmuth

Selkie 30U 425

Traverse City, MI

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[doncr...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I replaced my heat exchanger in 2021. It had some pinholes in it; salt deposits around bronze hose fittings, I suspect due to PO not checking and changing the zinc often enough. I decided to simply replace the whole unit and got my mechanic to do it. If you have the new part in hand, plus new long-life diesel coolant, then the mechanic only has to make one trip to the boat. Be sure to flush the whole coolant system.

 

I bought my heat exchanger from Mr. Cool (www.mrcool.us) cost was US$485, plus shipping. I believe they manufacture and supply these to Westerbeke as well. With shipping to Canada and UPS brokerage fee, it was somewhat costlier.

 

And, don’t just throw away the old heat exchanger. I took mine to a metal recycling place and they gave me about $25-$35 for it. Depends on the price of copper at the time.

Hope that helps,

Don

’87 NS30U #369 – Breezin’

Vancouver, BC

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[Peter Grabow]

Thank you all for the additional input.

If I can get the unit tested, and it shows a leak, I will replace with a new unit and not repair.  I am tempted to just replace, but may regret that decision if once replaced the coolant loss continues...

Joe V - Unfortunately, I am not able to locate the Westerbeke bulletin re locating the coolant leak - when I search their site approximately 300 PDF's come up and most are manuals...

Will heed your input and replace if leak is found.

Ward - the end caps are not leaking and I replaced the gaskets/o-rings for them last season.

Thor - thank you for the links

Cedric - good suggestions. As noted originally, I did notice some some 'foaminess' in the raw water discharge when the engine was started. I will attempt to capture some of this discharge in a bucket to check to see if it is coolant.  The oil, which I changed at the winter lay-up, appeared to be fine, but I will re-check for signs of water/coolant intrusion (fingers crossed it is not this...)

Don R - no water heater in this circuit, but a good thought.

Don C - Found Mr. Cool the other day - unit is now $545 (not a bad increase after 4 years), but their reviews are a bit mixed. Have you experienced any issues with your replacement exchanger?  

Also found Lenco Coolers in West Babylon, NY - slightly less expensive for a replacement cooler, and more consistent reviews... has anyone used this shop?

Will update as this progresses...

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

[doncr...@gmail.com]

Hi Peter,

I’ve had no problems with my heat exchanger from Mr. Cool.

Don

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/aba48c0a-48a7-4d7e-af24-c404b7945fc7n%40googlegroups.com.

[Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC]

Here  is the coolant leak bulletin It relates to the end caps on certain coolant manifolds

-

[Ward Woodruff]

The end caps leak seawater not engine coolant. 

Ward Woodruff

N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Apr 25, 2025, at 9:26 AM, 'Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Here  is the coolant leak bulletin It relates to the end caps on certain coolant manifolds

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/030777c7-1f33-48fc-92d1-15815315bb4an%40googlegroups.com.

<W21 Coolant Leak.pdf>

[Captain Greg]

HI Peter,

If you are simply trying to determine if you have a leak between the coolant and seawater circuits there is a simple way. I learned it from a fisherman when my coolant ran out in Canso a few years ago. Put some red food dye into the coolant reservoir, along with whatever water you need to top it up. Run the engine. If you have reddish water coming out of your exhaust you will easily see it. My problem was corroded copper tubing in the core inside the heat exchanger body. If that's your issue you may be able to just replace the copper core , if the rest of the unit is ok. You may even be able to get this from a local radiator shop if not from a marine dealer.

Greg Silver

Misty Cat, 26C, #121

St. Peter's, Cape Breton

Nova Scotia 

[Peter Grabow]

Again, I want to thank everyone for the input, and the most recent input:

Thor - thank you for the bulletin - that would be quite concerning.

Don C - thank you for sharing your experience with Mr Cool.  I went ahead and ordered from them as the other shop with solid reviews has still not responded to my inquiry of several days ago (what business still uses a 'HotMail' email address? _ I gave them a shot..)

Capt Greg - thank you, that is a very smart idea!

I modified Capt Greg's test method, as I removed the heat exchanger ,and taking a calculated risk , ordered a new one on Friday. Once home with the heat exchanger I made sure as much of the water and coolant as possible was out of the unit. I made sure all of the raw water connections were closed off except for the main entry. I then used some dark red berry cocktail (I didn't like the flavor anyway so it was sitting in the fridge) and slowly/carefully poured into the raw water intake pipe. after letting it sit for a while, fluid did come out of the coolant side pipes with an ever so slight red tint to it. I drained the unit again, and retested two more times with the same result... some slightly red tinted fluid. Not a lot, so it must be a pinhole or 3, but fluid where none was coming out when drained.  

This, combined with the slightly green exhaust water captured in a bucket (when compared with a bucket with roughly the same amount of water collected from alongside the boat - surprisingly clear) when first starting the engine on Friday, has me reassured that the decision to not let anymore time pass (or spending $'s having the old unit tested) was 95% the correct decision. We'll see once the new unit arrives and I install it.

Question - the heat exchanger on the W27A has a straight 'tailpipe' to connect the unit to the raw water pump with 7/8" hose.  Hopefully with some PB Blaster and tapping of the part over a few days, will allow the old 'tailpipe' to be reused.  Westerbeke wants $291.30US for this 2" piece of brass...  NIPPLE 3/4 NPT x 7/8 HOSE part# 036838... that's crazy!  a 3/4 NPT x 1" hose, or 3/4" hose is much much much less expensive... 

Do I buy the piece for the 3/4" hose and heat the hose (and use some synthetic grease) so slide it on... (there is a lip that is .935" on the end before the 7/8" pipe)

or 

do I but the 3/4NPT x 1" hose and clamp the 7/8" hose extra securely (concerned about leaking) or do use a short piece of 1" hose with a 1" to 7/8" step down connect the hose?

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Stamford CT

[Ward Woodruff]

3/4” copper tubing is 7/8” OD.  A piece of 3/4” copper tubing sweat or brazed into a 3/4” copper x  male adapter will make the hose fitting you need at little cost. 

Ward Woodruff

N33 #8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Apr 27, 2025, at 5:15 PM, Peter Grabow <pke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Again, I want to thank everyone for the input, and the most recent input:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/7fd5aeb5-e21b-4f05-a1f1-50d5e1004f94n%40googlegroups.com.

[Peter Grabow]

Thank you Ward.

I made an error in my statement yesterday - the 'tailpipe' on the exchanger has a hose connected to the oil cooler on the Hurth 150V transmission, not to the raw water pump as stated. 

Please help clarify - this tailpipe should be bronze, not brass, correct?  my understanding is that bronze is better suited  and less prone to galvanic corrosion in a seawater application, especially below the waterline, as it has less zinc...

There is this one available at McMaster-Carr:

https://www.mcmaster.com/9431K13/    this has the 3/4" tailpipe

or this one from West Marine:

https://www.westmarine.com/groco-full-standard-flow-tailpieces-P011_332_001_025.html    this has the 1" tailpipe

Which would be better for the connection to the 7/8" hose?

Thank you,

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

[Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC]

Hose can be had from Macmaster Carr.   The injection elbow itself.  316L stainless ones can be had for the same price as the  black steel Westerbeke one.  As mentioned fabricated your own nipple

[Peter Grabow]

Hello Everyone!

Following up on the coolant 'leak' and possible heat exchanger replacement:

As noted previously, I took a risk and ordered a new heat exchanger. without testing the old one.  Mr. Cool's customer service was very good, and answered some questions/provided good input/clarification on 1 or 2 follow-up calls.  One call involved using the brackets that came with the new heat exchanger - I wasn't clear on how to attach them. The Mr Cool rep was very patient while explaining how to configure the new brackets to replace the old brackets.  However, one bracket wouldn't work without modification as the engine housing blocked the bracket placement and I would have had to perform some surgery on the bracket to remove some of it's corner to make it fit... I decided I would re-use the original brackets if I could get them off of the old exchanger... they are solid brass, but I was able to spread the arms far enough apart, using just my hands, to get them off of the old exchanger and onto the new.

After figuring out the bracket issue, everything else went smoothly and I used the correct size tailpipe  (no need to step down hose sizes) that I ordered from Nassau National Cable (price was right, though shipping took a little longer than expected (surprising as they aren't that far from where I live).

Ran the engine (sometimes with some load)  on multiple occasions for an hour to two hours each time, and coolant level remained stable (and no leaks)!

Here are a few photos of the old exchanger coming out, and the new one going in:

Had to move (but left all connections in place) the fuel pump (black cylinder w writing) to get to the heat exchanger - luckily, not difficult

The original heat exchanger brackets - 1 with 1 without the bolt in place.

Old exchanger removed

Old exchanger out!  Couldn't get the old tailpipe (left side facing camera) to budge... glad I ordered a new one!

New exchanger in place with hoses reattached (except for new tailpipe (left side) hose that goes to the 

transmission oil cooler - did that after this photo was shot), Fuel pump et all re-mounted.

Again, thank you to those who supplied input for this venture!

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Stamford, CT - SHYH