Hours on Westerbeke 27

[Tom Beilein]

What is considered "high hours" on a Westerbeke 27? I have 1100 hours on my 1985 Nonsuch 30 It runs well with no major issues.

[Jimud]

The average life of a marine Diesel engine is about 5000 hours. 

Jim Falcon

Ballybay 1986 NS 30U #357

Warren, RI

On Sep 1, 2019, at 3:15 PM, Tom Beilein <tab...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is considered "high hours" on a Westerbeke 27? I have 1100 hours on my 1985 Nonsuch 30 It runs well with no major issues.

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[Paul Miller]

It depends on the service, maintenance, and lubricant. I used to run a fleet of boats with small diesels. We ran 10 hrs a day, every day for eight months a year. I rebuilt the engines (new pistons, rings, bearings) at 5000 hrs until we switched to synthetic oil. The first one I pulled apart after that at 5000 hours had virtually no wear. I sold the business before another engine needed work.
Diesels love work. The more they work, the better they like it.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Joe Valinoti]

All predicated on good maintenance such as changing the oil and filter before layup, etc., etc.  You may want to shift to synthetic oil also.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Katmando]

Longer if you are nice to it.   Use premium synthetic diesel oil,  don’t run at full throttle longer than 5 minutes and make sure you have a prop and transmission matched to the engine. Treat it like an aircraft engine, don’t overheat and monitor oil pressure, use good clean fuel and it will last forever..

 If you only use it now and again, start and run it every week, don’t leave it sitting and last but not least have a good diesel mechanic check it over at least once per year.

Cheers

Brian McCuaig. NS30u

Whitby, Ontario

“Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut

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[Ed Brost]

Our W27 has about 2000 hours on it. I use Shell Rotella oil, which I think is a conventional oil, not synthetic.

Are there any concerns about switching from a conventional engine oil to synthetic oil prior to an overhaul? Seals, gaskets.....? Our engine runs fine so not planning on any major work, just considering synthetic oil.

.....Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost
SaSeaCat N30U 322
Sarnia Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Paul Miller
Sent: September 1, 2019 5:15 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Hours on Westerbeke 27

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[Paul Miller]

Hi Ed,
I’m not an expert but I can say that we did not have any issues.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay B.C.

[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

I have had the engine oil analyzed  every two years over the past 15 years on my Westerbeke 21 which now has about 2100 hours.   I can relate the following conclusions.

1. Dino oil , I used Shell Rotella,for about 6 years and it  lasts 40 hours no more and the oil is shot. 

2. Synthetic oil lasts 80 hours and the measured engine wear is 20 of the dino oil, I use Rotella T6. The engine runs smoother 

When you read the manuals the recommended change frequency is 100 hours for dino oil. No wonder marine engines die prematurely.  100 hours makes sense of they are used in tractors with a fair bit of idling but marine engines are under load 100% of the time. 

The engine burns no oil and starts like my Honda. 

I use Blackstone Labs for the testing.

On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 1:46:48 PM UTC-4, Ed wrote:

Our W27 has about 2000 hours on it.  I use Shell Rotella oil, which I think is a conventional oil, not synthetic.  

Are there any concerns about switching from a conventional engine oil to synthetic oil prior to an overhaul?  Seals, gaskets.....?  Our engine runs fine so not planning on any major work, just considering synthetic oil.

.....Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost
SaSeaCat N30U 322
Sarnia Ontario

-----Original Message-----
From: ina-nonsuch-discussion-group@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-discussion-group@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Paul Miller
Sent: September 1, 2019 5:15 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Hours on Westerbeke 27

It depends on the service, maintenance, and lubricant. I used to run a fleet of boats with small diesels. We ran 10 hrs a day, every day for eight months a year. I rebuilt the engines (new pistons, rings, bearings) at 5000 hrs until we switched to synthetic oil. The first one I pulled apart after that at 5000 hours had virtually no wear. I sold the business before another engine needed work.
Diesels love work. The more they work, the better they like it.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.

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[WRXIzumi]

Not that this is anything other than trivia, but Shell Rotella comes in conventional, called T4, semi-synthetic, called T5, and full synthetic, called T6.  I use the T6 in my motorbike because it is rated for motorcycles with wet clutches and is generally less expensive than motorcycle specific oil.  There should be no problem switching between conventional and synthetic at any time, even when topping up, as long as the viscosity and the ratings meet the manufacturers specs.

Cheers

Scott Petersen

Ilse B, N30C #65

Bowen Island, BC

[Barry Stott]

Larry:

This INA blog note from Thor is well worth reading, and I concur with his observations.

Regular oil analysis at every oil change is a very good idea which can spot specific engine wear problems early before they ever become catastrophic.

Whenever an engine is run for a short while at idle power, it promotes water condensation into the oil without getting the engine warm enough to steam these out.  At least a 30-minute run at normal operating power is required to reduce this accumulation of moisture, although on my airplanes, I often remove the oil caps to let the moisture escape (which you can easily see occurring!) while I am bedding them down as they cool.

Full synthetic oils tend to resist heat-breakdown better, and they generally have more anti-wear additives, so they can last more hours before degrading, but they can get equally fouled with moisture and wear particles, so the more frequently the oil is changed, the better, with either type of oil.

In my airplanes, I shoot to change oil every 30 operating hours or every 4-6 months whichever comes first.  In the planes, I have settled on a semi-synthetic oil called Phillips X-C 20W50, although the Aeroshell 15W50 full synthetic stuff is also very good (but somewhat more expensive).  Obviously, there are many options for nautical oils, both natural and synthetic.  Just remember that saving a few bucks on “cheap” oil doesn’t pan out well when an expensive engine replacement is at stake.

All the oils tend to accumulate condensation moisture while just sitting in a humid environment, so frequent engine use and frequent oil changes are the twin keys to long and happy engine life!

Barry  Stott

Chadds Ford, PA

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[Mark Powers]

I am not going to argue with those that are knowledgeable and that speak from far more experience than I have, however....

At page 33 of the Beta Operator's Manual it states:

"An acceptable alternative (to mineral based oils) are mineral based lubricating oils that are sometimes called semi-synthetic (or 'synthetic blends') and are blends of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil. ... Do not use lubrication additives, and we do not recommend totally synthetic oil."

The April 2009 issue of Yachting Monthly contained an article cautioning against using high spec synthetic oils in low performance engines used in most sail boats. At 10 years old, the article is getting dated. I have read a more recent article on the subject but have not been able to locate it. It may have been in Practical Boat Owner. The article explained that modern high performance diesels with turbo charging used in cars require different additives that have an impact on acid and alkaline levels in the motor oil. It also explained that North American and European/Asian engine manufacturers used different approaches to solve pollution controls issues and different levels of sulfur in the diesel fuel. The different approaches  required different formulations of oil. The article suggested that the low performance lawn tractor engines used in most small sail boats would not provide the high temperatures the synthetic oils were designed to operate at and this could result in the acid/alkaline levels in the oils being inappropriate for the engine. 

It sounds like in the case of Thor's engine and the high hour engines used in the ferries that Paul ran, benefited from synthetic oil.

Before switching to full synthetic you might like to check your owner's manual or with the engine manufacturer.

On the issue of engine life I spoke with a Westerbeke representative a few years back and he advised me that  I could easily expect to get 5000 hours out of a Westerbeke 13HP engine if I changed the oils regularly, keep the fuel filters clean and worked the engine. Idling the engine with no load charging the batteries would shorten the engine life.  when motoring he suggested running the engine at 70-75% of maximum rated rpm. With proper care and maintenance the engines can go many more hours.

Mark Powers

La Reina 26C

Vancouver, B.C.

 

[Tom Beilein]

Thank you for your  input.

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[Rob Powers]

Hi Ed,

I can only relate my experience. I am a fan of synthetics. A neighbour had a fleet of highway tractors and trailers hauling wood chips. He was also a HD mechanic. He told me the trucking manufacturers required synthetic engine oil and transmission and differential fluids to maintain the  warranties. He did experiment and noticed reductions in running temps in engines, transmissions and differentials when he used synthetics. 

However before I replaced our Westerbeke 21 I used synthetic oil when I first purchased the boat with undetermined hours. Changed oil and filters every fall. It began to use oil until I switched to Rotella T 15 -40. It stopped using oil. Thor's experience was different than mine so you may want to experiment. For the amount of oil we use the difference in cost is not a factor. 

Rob Powers, Respite 26C #50

Sidney BC.

[Mark Powers]

Here is a link to an article from SailFeed where the fellow talks about 20,000 to 40,000 hours on Ford and John Deere diesels in a ferry fleet. Don't know if those will translate to Westerbeke engines but the advice about working the engines and getting the oils tested (just like Thor Powell) certainly does translate.

diesel-engine-longevity-revisited

Mark Powers

La Reina 26C

Vancouver, B.C.

[Paul Miller]

That all sounds very familiar to me, especially the parts about skippers ramming the boats in and out of gear hundreds of times a day and running them for long hard driven hours. What may make a difference is that I believe that the engines he refers to are slower turning than many more modern small diesels.

In our fleet prior to changing to synthetic oils we did need a minor rebuild at 5000 hours, but these were 3600 rpm engines and the numbers went way up after the changeover.

I don’t think it can be overstated that diesels love to work hard.

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Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay B.C.