Starter motor issues Universal M35
Austin, Timothy
Hi folks,
I realised my post was rather long so I have added the question for the list at the beginning to save reading it all for those that don’t need the background. The question: does anyone have experience with the cheaper starter motors that are available for Kubota engines rather than the ones provided by Universal dealers – there is an order of magnitude price difference? Are they capable of withstanding the harsh marine environment found in my engine room? Any thoughts much appreciated.
I’m sure this is a topic that will have been raised before, but the starter motor on Mistoffelees (UniversalM35) is sticking on a regular basis. I hear the solenoid clicking loudly but the starter won’t engage. The batteries are relatively new, fully charged and I have upgraded the wiring on the ignition panel to avoid having to have the glow plugs engaged while the engine is cranking. Interestingly it never seems to happen when starting the engine from cold at the beginning of a days sailing. Once the engine is warm though it can happen intermittently. If I am moving forward under sail I use a sort of ‘bump start’ to get it going. This is done by slipping the gear lever to neutral and free wheeling the prop (I always sail with it locked in reverse as instructed on the Hurth HB150V gear box itself) and then bumping it to reverse with the start button pressed! This seems to knock the gear box and presumably also the engine and starter into life. If there is no wind or I am moored up its much more entertaining. I have been known to ask my motorboat buddies for a push start!! They look at me in amazement when it works!
Anyway I want to tackle the issue (I suspect probably wiring problems) but when I researched the easiest option of a new starter I was amazed to see that the Universal dealers offer the starter at about 10 times the price of what looks like the exact same starter for the Kubota block. I could get a new starter for 140 US dollars! The website even offered free shipping to the Cayman Islands. This seems too easy. I had a similar experience with the internal coolant water pump (belt driven one). I bought the original from the Universal dealer for several hundred dollars which ended up taking 2 months because it was back ordered. In my desperation to get going I found the Kubota one for a skid tractor available for US$54 and free shipping to my friend in the US. Two days later I had it installed. When the original one from Universal turned up it was obviously heftier and nicely painted, but not much difference other than that. The cheap one has been running a year with no obvious signs of stress. I have the Universal one ready on standby. Anyway as usual any advice much appreciate.
I have also just separated the exhaust manifold at the point of the raw water injection! Probably through bump starting the engine so often. It was fairly alarming watching the steam and smoke emerge from the engine room, but luckily caught in time. The exhaust gases were venting directly onto the fuel line leading up the to the fuel filter. No damage done as I expect fuel lines are designed to take some serious heat for safety reasons. The wooden bulk head wasn’t so happy though – nice black burnt dimple in it!! Anyway I’ll report on that later with a separate thread as I figure out how to rebuild it from black iron available on island.
And Mike, I know I should get an electric motor and I am seriously considering it. I look enviously at your Bianca Blog and dream. I usually only need the engine for a 10 minute trip down my canal and then I’m in open water and can sail for the rest of the day before the return 10 minutes – the hot water in the shower is nice though (the Paloma gas heater literally blew up, so I haven’t reinstalled it).
For entertainment I’ve attached a picture of me at the reef from the masthead with the GoPro. My auxiliary engine beside us. Thanks to you all.
Tim Austin
Mistoffelees
Nonsuch 33 #32.
Cayman Islands.
.
Jack Dokter
Tim.
From your descriptive post, I'm quite certain you have bad contacts with the solenoid. The only other possibility would be poor power cable connections between the positive battery post and one of the terminals of the solenoid.
The solenoid itself contains 2 copper buttons about 3/8" or larger. The loud click you hear is the solenoid activated and forcing a movable contact bar across the contact tips to jumper out, supplying 12 volts to the starter motor. A significant amount of battery current is needed to turn this starter, somewhere around 40 to 50 amps.
The contacts are likely pitted or worn out which prevents the required huge current flow. Causes of reduced current flow are bad cables, bad cable connections, or bad solenoid contacts. Plus one other possibility are worn brushes within the starter motor.
Check your cable connections and if they are good, then just go with the lower cost starter. Likely the only difference between the two prices are paint colour and packaging.
Jack Dokter
Nine Lives 26C 099 W21
Penetanguishene On
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Allen Perrins
iHi
Your problem just might be due to the bendix getting jammed in the ring gear. This can happen
in up to four places of wore teeth on the ring. (Engine stops against compression ).
Anyone who has owned a Model A Ford knows about this (I had two of them).
I don't see any reason for not going with the Kuboata unit. Tractor environment is worse than
marine in many respects !
Al Barbcat NS30C #170
Austin, Timothy
Thanks Jack, Is it possible to take the solenoid apart and check the button terminals? I will inspect all the other wiring too. Thanks very much. Tim
Jack Dokter
I fear not, Tim. This is usually a sealed unit. But I always say....if it's already broken, how much more broken can I make it?
Be prepared to replace while your dismantling. Good luck!
Jack
medjd3
Austin, Timothy
Thanks Al – tractor probably is worse I agree, although my engine room has some serious saltwater issues and 90% or higher humidity every day! This is the unit I was going to order: http://www.rareelectrical.com/p-8634-new-starter-universal-marine-inboard-m-35-m4-30-m4-30a.aspx Glad I consulted the list because the price is now down to under 100 dollars! Thanks for your input. Tim.
From: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com [mailto:INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Perrins
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 10:25 AM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Jack Dokter
Tim.
You could always paint it with Rustoleum etc before you install it.
I think you are on the right track, that's quite an impressive price!
Jack
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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Hi folks,
Jack Dokter
Joe,
For $85 for a new starter, I wouldn't even bother putting a screwdriver to it. The shop will likely want that much just to open it up.
Jack
carl engel
That's Right. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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Bill Baxter
I bought that starter on spec, since the price was too good and I have already rebuilt my starter once. I nonetheless find Joe’s advice most useful for when I am out there a day away from help and I hit the button and nothing happens. Of course, my carburetor adjustor, deftly applied to the starter motor, has proven useful in that situation.
Bill Baxter
Persistence NS30 #507
Penetang ON
From: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com [mailto:INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Dokter
Sent: November 6, 2015 10:31 AM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
