Prop walk

[Brian Cayer]

Is there an easy to remember saying or diddy  to aid in mastering prop walk?

This is a much needed skill that I need to acquire sooner rather than later.

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

N30U 419

Westbrook, Ct

[Mike Jennings]

With the boat tied to the dock and driving astern I looked over both sides. It was very obvious which way the thrust was driving the boat. I don’t think I will ever forget it.

Chancy has a sail drive and some say that sail drives don’t have prop walk. Don’t believe them.

Mike Jennings.

NS005C Chancy.

Port Moody, BC.

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[BRIAN CAYER]

Mike,

Witch way was the prop coaxing the hull? 

To port or starboard? Right hand prop? 

Or you saying try it then you will know.

Brian C

Spirit~Wind

On Jun 14, 2024, at 7:12 PM, Mike Jennings <mrchi...@gmail.com> wrote:

With the boat tied to the dock and driving astern I looked over both sides. It was very obvious which way the thrust was driving the boat. I don’t think I will ever forget it.

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[Mike Jennings]

I suggest try it and you will know how your boat will react. 

The thrust is to port for Chancy the stern moves to starboard when going astern. It would be chancy to expect you Nonsuch to be the same.

When I come in to my dock I bring the starboard bow close to the dock put the helm down to port at the last moment and go astern. By the time Chancy is stopped we can step off and tie up. Very impressive. Anywhere else, all bet are off.

Mike.

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[BRIAN CAYER]

Mike,

Thanks and nice pun with chancy.

Brian

On Jun 14, 2024, at 9:19 PM, Mike Jennings <mrchi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I suggest try it and you will know how your boat will react. 

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[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Brian,

I'm in my first season with Soave... lots of folks in this group have more experience than me.

Some things that have been helpful for me :

1. Most of my mistakes have been poor rudder control.  I have muscle memory for using a tiller... it's taking a while to translate to a wheel.  I sometimes have to glance at my chart plotter for rudder position because I loose track of where my rudder is when maneuvering.  When you botch a landing or departure think about what went wrong.... for me it's not been prop walk.
2. Prop walk is most noticeable when the boat is stopped or moving VERY slow and you shift into reverse.  It's not as noticeable when the boat is at rest and you shift into forward because you can use your rudder and prop wash to balance the effect of the walk.  ( in forward your rudder immediately gets some flow over it even when the boat isn't moving ) 
3. When your boat is moving (forward or reverse) , you can use your rudder to overcome prop walk.
4. Practice in calm conditions the effects of prop walk and prop wash are much easier to feel when wind and current are not a factor.
5. Once you can maneuver in calm conditions, practice in light wind.  I find that wind is a bigger factor with Soave than other boats I've docked, especially if you are trying to turn into the wind in reverse. ( back into your slip from a narrow fairway ) 
6. It's been a slow learning curve for me, but I'm confident docking in 10 knots and less.  And gaining more confidence each time I do it.

Good luck and give it time,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

I largely agree with everyone that it's more a matter of practice than anything else, and it depends a bit on conditions.   

However, the failed poet in me can't resist a bit of a try at a ditty for you, Brian: "Use a repeated short burst to avoid the worst."

The longer and harder you gun the engine (both of which are very tempting to do when you think you're getting into trouble -- guess how I know that), the more prop walk will be a problem.

My sympathies to Rob on making the switch from tillers.  I rented a boat with a tiller a few years ago after 30+ years of having sailed with wheels.  It wasn't pretty.  Going either way from one to the other is an adjustment.  

If you haven't already done it, you might put some kind of marker at the top of your wheel when the rudder's centered to help get a feel for how hard over it is.   On my N26, a half-rotation is a sharp enough turn to remember.  So, which side the marker's on is a pretty good clue to rudder direction.

I don't know N30s, though.  While at the dock, you might want to check how far you have to rotate the rudder in each direction  to get from centered to wheel lock.  (This is also information that's useful in fine-tuning autopilot settings.)

On my friend's N36, you have to turn the wheel a lot more to have as much effect on rudder angle. 

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

And shame on me for failing to put in a plug for the New Nonsuch Owners Guide, available under MEMBERS - MANUALS on www.Nonsuch.org.

The section on "What You Should Know about Docking and Maneuvering," which starts on page 3, is pretty comprehensive.  I've been sailing for 40+ years and owned Nonsuches for eight of those, and it taught me a lot.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[BRIAN CAYER]

"Use a repeated short burst to avoid the worst."

Repeat short bursts avoid the worst.



Thanks for the references and links all you intrepid sailors.

I tried prop walking at my floating dock today. I have a right hand 2 blade 16” prop and a short burst in reverse pushed the stern to Port, in forward to Starbord. I’m sure my finger pier mate thought I forgot to untie.

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

N30U 419

Westbrook, Ct

On Jun 15, 2024, at 12:01 AM, Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Kroes]

Hi Brian,

I don’t know a diddy, but with a prop that turns clockwise in forward gear which I think most of us have, prop walk in reverse will always pull the stern to port. I use it every time I enter my slip. It becomes second nature after a while.    From a standstill with a quick burst of reverse my stern will move to port by 2 or 3 feet without appreciable forward movement.  Prop walk is really only effective in reverse since in forward the effect is overridden by the rudder.   To move the stern to starboard turn the wheel hard to port and give a quick burst of forward thrust,   The prop wash pushes against the rudder pushing the stern to starboard.  Of course wind and current will change everything making these techniques either more or less effective.  Practice in the open near a bouy to see what happens. It isn’t difficult, it just takes some getting used to.  If I can do it anyone can.  

Full disclosure,   Despite using these techniques I have many slip entries where I cringe and hope no one is watching.

Bill Kroes

Canatara  NS36 - #24

Sarnia Ontario

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 14, 2024, at 4:57 PM, Brian Cayer <b.k....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Is there an easy to remember saying or diddy  to aid in mastering prop walk?

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Re-reading my note and some of the other posts, I realized that my ditty about short bursts is potentially very misleading. 

What I meant by bursts, and didn't clearly say, was short applications of power (best accomplished by taking the engine in and out of gear).  That will get the boat slowly up to speed.

If you're trying to avoid prop walk, the last thing you want to do is to gun the engine.  You do that when you want prop walk, which sometimes can be very useful in tight maneuvering.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status