drilling holes at the bottom of rudder

[Peter D]

I'm really appreciative of all the insight and advice found in these pages. 

Hope I didn't miss this topic. Thanks to all who post with wit and wisdom! 

-- Someone recommended drilling 3, 3/8 inch holes at the bottom of the rudder, under the post to let any collected water inside drain before freezing temps set in. This to stop the trapped water expanding and causing damage inside and ultimately wrecking the rudder. 

In the spring fill the holes with silicone. Fall, drill them out again and so on every year. 

Is this something good to do? 

Thanks in advance - 

Peter

NS30C #197 "Bliss"

Huntington LI USA

[Daniel Weinstein]

Peter-  I've never done this with any of my boats, nor heard of people doing it.  If there's enough water in your rudder to cause freeze damage you likely have or will have other rudder/post issues.  I believe most rudders have a fair amount of foam inside to provide some buoyancy, and so perhaps that allows for enough freeze expansion that drilling holes isn't practiced.  If you do elect to do this, to NOT use silicone.  It is a non-adhesive sealant.  Use something that has adhesive properties, like 3M 4200, 5200,  or a polysulfide like BoatLife, that cures in the presence of moisture.  Or just fill it with a thickened epoxy and re-drill the hole next year. 

Dan Weinstein

NS30C #205   "Look Farther"

East Greenwich RI  USA

[Greg Silver]

If you are concerned that your rudder is collecting water ….always chances it is… this is good practice to drain it after hauling, before it freezes. I drilled a few 1/4” holes in bottom, adjacent rudder post,  to drain in th fall,  filled with thick epoxy and some glass fibre and a couple of toothpicks in the spring. 

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[Peter D]

Thank you for your insights Dan and Greg! 

Looking at the rudder it appears there is water inside. 

After hauling on Friday and sitting in the sun on a very warm fall Saturday, it looks like the inside of the rudder got warm and the water was pushed out of the top and I saw a little weeping from the front edge. I would add the pictures, but can't seem to attach or paste them. 

I think I will drill a hole or two and see what happens. 

In the spring, I'll be sure to seal it properly as you guys suggested! 

Thanks again. 

Peter

(new owner still trying to figure it all out) 

NS30C #197 "Bliss"

Huntington NY USA

[Herb Huber]

I have drilled drain holes in my rudder, after seeing some rusty looking water weeping out in the spring. Even though, a few years earlier, when I bought the boat, the surveyor didn't think it was a problem - because he said he often finds that in older boats. However, when an acquaintance told me how much it was going to cost him to have a new rudder made for his boat, I decided to get proactive. I consulted with another boater who had done the drill & drain thing. He suggested I first search the internet for an internal diagram of our rudder, since the last few inches to the bottom would probably be solid foam. Not wanting to leave standing water my first hole was in fact to low. After drilling higher I struck water, then I drilled an air hole about halfway up the rudder to allow air in as the water drained out. In the spring I bought a tapping tool with corresponding threaded screws. I applied a sealant on the screws and epoxied the dry hole shut.  Next, I dug out the old sealant from where the rudder post enters the top of the rudder & applied new sealant. That's where the water got in originally. The following fall I removed the screws and very little water came out. The next year none.  

Herb G. Huber

Mistoffelees NS30C, Lake Huron Nonsuch Association

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

There's some potentially useful information on the INA website at www.Nonsuch.org, accessible by clicking the MEMBERS tab and selecting SHOP DRAWINGS.

Under the Nonsuch 30 drawings set, there's one called "Rudder Fabrication" that shows the internal stainless parts of the rudder.

Under the Nonsuch 26 drawings, there are two that would be informative for additional views of the rudders: "Nonsuch26RudderTop+SideView" and "Nonsuch26WheelSteering".

Regardless of your boat size, it's worth checking all three.  The exact dimensions may vary depending on which size boat you have, but the anatomy's probably pretty much the same.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Bruce Clark]

I rebuilt the rudder of my Niagara 35 some years ago. It was similar vintage to an earlier Nonsuch 30 so I assume similar construction since the assembly lines were next to each other. The web inside the rudder, welded to the shaft was mild steel rather than stainless. Not sure why Hinterhoeller did this, I assume they had a reason other than saving a couple of bucks.

On the Niagara I had a similar problem with rusty water leaking down from around the shaft. The repair was not too difficult so long as you remove the rudder from the boat, i.e. if it is on the hard in a paved yard you cannot dig a hole. Anyway, with the rudder off, I cut the two halves apart along the edges with a hand saw. Separated the two halves and removed the shaft and web from the shell. Removed any questionable foam from both sides and made sure that there was an opening from top to bottom for the epoxy to come. Had a machine shop replace the mild steel web with stainless to the same dimensions. Put the metal bit back into the shell on one side. Attached the two halves of the shell with 8” f/g tape and epoxy. Set the rudder vertically on the floor and drilled a hole on the top edge. Filled any voids with filled epoxy. Don’t do this too quickly, it will get very hot and smoke (ask me how I know). If you haven’t done so already, Dremel out a groove around the shaft. Fill this with 5200 and fair the blade, Reinstall. Should be good for many years to come.

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Bruce (or other informed Nonsucher),

This is not a knowledgeable question, but I'm hoping someone can educate me.  I have the impression that stainless steel depends on oxygen exposure and loses its superiority other steel alloys if oxygen-starved. 

IF that's correct, could that be why Hinterhoeller didn't use it for the rudder assembly?  In the below-water and sealed situation of the rudder, the only protection against rust would be prevention of salt water intrusion since there's no way to get oxygen to the metal?

Thanks,

--  Bob

    Me Gusta

    Nonsuch e26U #233

[Bruce Clark]

Certainly could be the case. The weak point in the system is the goop (5200?) used to fill the gap between the shaft and the rudder shells. I am sure that the steel and f/g expand and contract at different rates with temperature changes. I can’t imagine 3M or another manufacturer saying their products would be good for 30 too 40 years.

On Oct 30, 2023, at 1:34 AM, Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote: