PHRF

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Tom Beilein

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May 22, 2025, 8:21:19 PMMay 22
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I am curious to know what PHRF rating a 30c with a 3 blade fixed prop carries.  Mine on Lake. Ontario in at 162 which is the same as a CS 32 and a Catalina 34. I guess this message would be directed to LONA members primarily. Thank you

Tom Beilein
Crackling Rose #318
Olcott, NY

Francis Cichowski

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May 23, 2025, 3:16:03 AMMay 23
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PHRF NE Base Rating 

NONSUCH 30       177
NONSUCH 30 SD 186
3 blade solid            +9

Fran Cichowski
Southpaw  N30U   #300
Noank, CT


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Fran Trapp

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May 23, 2025, 3:37:03 AMMay 23
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On Lake Murray mine is 186 but I have shoal draft
It would be 180 regular not shoal draft
I have a feathering prop but I would add 6 for a fixed 3 blade prop
Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2025, at 3:16 AM, Francis Cichowski <capt...@gmail.com> wrote:



Joe Valinoti

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May 23, 2025, 6:19:33 AMMay 23
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In North Carolina, my PHRF is 180 with folding prop and shallow draft.
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA


~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

wigg...@aol.com

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May 23, 2025, 2:55:13 PMMay 23
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With eastern Connecticut sailing sssociation a 30 is rated 183 non shoal draft
Bill Wigglesworth 
Bananaquit 30U  360
Noank CT
Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2025, at 06:19, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



Daniel Mills

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May 23, 2025, 5:41:16 PMMay 23
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ChatGPT says it typically falls within 174 to 198 depending on regional adjustments and specific boat configurations.  

Dan Mills
Sakina NS30U 460
Solomons, MD

dm/dc/usa

On May 23, 2025, at 3:37 AM, Fran Trapp <fran.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Lake Murray mine is 186 but I have shoal draft

Brian

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May 23, 2025, 6:01:12 PMMay 23
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Wow! Thats interesting a 24 seconds per mile spread. There must be a few tricked out Nonsuches out there. If you can believe AI.

Brian Cayer
Spirit-Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT

On May 23, 2025, at 5:41 PM, Daniel Mills <danielmc...@gmail.com> wrote:

ChatGPT says it typically falls within 174 to 198 depending on regional adjustments and specific boat configurations.  

Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.

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May 24, 2025, 2:27:51 AMMay 24
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In British Columbia in the Vancouver area a 30U is rated at 193 and as raced 201. A second 30U has a slightly harder rating.
Mark Powers

Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT

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May 24, 2025, 8:10:39 AMMay 24
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Brian,
24 seconds sounds like a lot.... but 9 sec for fixed prop and 9 sec for shoal draft explains 18 sec of the adjustment.   These are pretty standard.

I'd say local conditions and race format can justify the remaining 6 second variation.

I know I'd rather race a triangle than a windward/leeward against a Catalina.  Our boats are difficult handicap because the design is outside the norm.

The handicapper job is a thankless one.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

Will O'Hara

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May 24, 2025, 9:33:20 AMMay 24
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My Nonsuch 30U was assigned a rating of 159.

Will O’Hara
La Balena
Mimico Cruising Club
Toronto, Canada 

On May 24, 2025, at 2:27 AM, Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C. <r...@shaw.ca> wrote:

In British Columbia in the Vancouver area a 30U is rated at 193 and as raced 201. A second 30U has a slightly harder rating.

Fran Trapp

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May 26, 2025, 12:11:39 AMMay 26
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Anybody PHRF race with a spinnaker or blooper.  What do they do with that?

Fran Trapp

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May 26, 2025, 12:13:06 AMMay 26
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 I am sorry, I keep forgetting
S/V Spirit NS30C
Lake Murray, South Carolina (Near Columbia)



Joe Valinoti

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May 26, 2025, 8:20:44 AMMay 26
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My recollection is people have tried but it wasn’t worth the hit on the PHRF rating.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce Clark

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May 26, 2025, 9:37:13 AMMay 26
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I have a blooper, it is really not all that big and would not justify the rating hit. 

Bruce Clark
N30 ‘Nonsuch’
Whitby YC , Lake Ontario


Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC

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May 27, 2025, 4:31:16 PMMay 27
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Couple have thoughts. PHRF was designed to handicap boats of similar design and size.  A 65 foot and 30 foot are not going to correct out.  A 35 foot hunter and  30 foot Catalina ok.  A Nonsuch 30  and a  C&C 30 no.  

Each "region" will adjust ratings based in experience over time. Some regions are more diligent some less so .

A Nonsuch will owe time to everyone. I was giving time to Mirage 30's as I recall.  Using a blooper will put you in spinacker class and  you can not fly a blooper over about 9 knots apparent plus the time to douse and raise the main makes it  impossible. 

Where we had good success was on long distance races that were not dominated by windward  legs.  Long enough for competition  to make mistakes.  

 In light air you will struggle . In anything over 20 knots you'll do well as most racers hate to reef and pay the penalty.  

Jack Lombard in the Long Island group did some excellent work in developing rating for  the Off Sounding Series . I'd get in touch with him I'm sure he can assist.

I did bolt a roller fearler to my Sampson post and delemaded a 6 second credit. The PHRF measurer didn't want to give me the credit as it was not connected but I did point out to hime there was nothing in the rules saying I had ti actually use it.  

T

Brian

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May 27, 2025, 7:33:48 PMMay 27
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Thor
I had the pleasure to meet Jack Lombard, when I first brought my boat into the boat yard at Westbrook. He was gracious enough to help me move my boat to a different slip. We had a good conversation and everything worked out well. Very gracious man haven’t seen them lately. I hope I do so soon.

Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT


On May 27, 2025, at 4:31 PM, 'Thor Powell, Nonsuch 26, Victoria BC' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Couple have thoughts. PHRF was designed to handicap boats of similar design and size.  A 65 foot and 30 foot are not going to correct out.  A 35 foot hunter and  30 foot Catalina ok.  A Nonsuch 30  and a  C&C 30 no.  
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newelljc9

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May 28, 2025, 10:12:39 AMMay 28
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Well said Thor. Nonsuches and Wylie cats give PHRF committees nightmares since they don't sail by the usual rules of Bermudian sloops. My gaff rig has added to their problems. Mascouche with the standard wishbone rig with a Botts sail and folding three blade prop had a rating of 249 on Lake Ontario.  After I converted to a smaller gaff sail, the PHRF committee could not decide on how to rate me for over a year and in the end came up with a 100 which is very flattering but likely unachievable although when conditions are right she will give any yacht a run for her money on a windward leg. The photo taken from Mascouche shows the fleet on  the windward of a Club TGIF. We were second around the leeward buoy and had established a substantial lead by the end of the windward leg.

As far as bloopers and spinnakers are concerned, California PFRF committees ruled that Nonsuches and Wylie cats have to compete in the spinnaker classes regardless of their intention to fly a spinnaker or blooper or not.  The Nonsuch rig is more efficient than a standard spinnaker since one can increase the pressure differential between the windward and leeward side of the sail while on the run. The choker needs to be eased and the mainsheet long enough to allow the boom to go past 90 degrees. 

TGIF8,2,23mascouche in lead (1).jpg

John Newell
Mascouche 26C1
Toronto

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