Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

[Richard Miller]

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience with the shoal keel version of the NS 30?  Are the sailing characteristics significantly different?

TIA for any information you can provide

Richard Miller

S/V Raven

CAL 33

[John Zinner]

I have a shoal draft NS30 for 19 years now. It fulfills my desire to
cruise into shallow quiet coves on the Chesapeake Bay, so that we can
get off by ourselves. Also, the channel in/out of our marina can get too
shallow for a 5' draft in strong northerlies. In principle, our 30 won't
point quite as well as the full keel, but it's not something I notice,
nor do I have a sense of greater leeway, tho there might be some
difference. Our shoal draft is competitive with the other 30's in our
Chesapeake Bay Nonsuch Association when we race for pure fun.
The bottom line, I think, is that if you have a good reason to want a
shoal draft, don't worry about any loss of performance.

John Zinner

POLARIS NS 30U (shoal keel) #505

Annapolis

[Joe Valinoti]

Mine is a shoal keel and is fine in this area of skinny water.  I'm sure that I lose a bit of performance going to windward in anything other then light air.

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC

 

  

 

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[rda...@rochester.rr.com]

Hi Richard,

We have a 30U with a shoal draft (3'-11") and we like it very much. We can
go
places the deep draft can't go and we really don't see any significant
differences. While we supposedly can't point up quite as well as the deeper
draft, we don't have any problem keeping up with others with a deeper
draft...
but then we're not out to win any races. We were in the "rat race" for
years,
now we're enjoying our "blow boat" and everything there is about sailing
and
cruising. Right at the moment we're in Arizona at our "winter" home, so
sailing
is not on the front of our minds... but to answer your question, don't be
concerned about deep draft versus shoal... go for the shoal if you can find
one,
you'll have more "cruising" options open to you... remember the Nonsuch is
a
"coastal cruiser" not a blue water boat.

Happy Holidays,
Dick (& Shirley) Darrow
"Cativa" NS30U #496
Lake Ontario, Sodus Bay, NY USA

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Richard Miller rozen...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:55:37 -0500
To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience with the shoal keel version of the NS 30?
Are the sailing characteristics significantly different?

TIA for any information you can provide

Richard Miller
S/V Raven
CAL 33

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[Allen Ames]

The shoal draft keel also has, of course, a shoal draft rudder (otherwise the rudder would be deeper than the keel).  Other than a lower efficiency to windward, you will notice that the shoal draft boat does not track as well.  It requires significantly more attention to the helm on all points of sail. It is probably a good choice for anyone who wishes to cruise in shallow water -- or has to -- but anyone who is always in deeper water would be happier with a full draft version.

 

Allen Ames

[Allen Ames]

OK -- I have to tell the story once more.  In answer to customers' questions, Mark Ellis claimed that the shoal draft boats were competitive with the full draft boats.  

He would sometimes borrow a local boat when he came to sail in a one-design regatta in New England.  

One one occasion, I called him and told him that I had a beautiful shoal draft N30 lined up for him to race.  It would be impolite to quote his response on this public forum.  

I ended up finding him a full draft Classic with a folding prop and our friendship survived.

 

Allen Ames

[Joe Valinoti]

I don't disagree with your logic, Allen, but of all the boats that I drive each year, my Nonsuch 30U shoal draft is the easiest and needs the least attention.

Happy holidays to all ,

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC

 

  

 

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[Ron Singerman]

I happen to have a full draft Nonsuch 30 here on the Gulf coast of
FL. Of all the areas where one would prefer a shoal draft this area
probably ranks high. In the limited time that I have had my NS 30 I
have been more aware of tides and depth than I did previously with my
Island Packet 27 which had a draft of 3'11". In my opinion, with the
proper attention (which one should have anyways) there is no reason
that the full draft should not work. I have never sailed a shoal draft
NS 30 and therefore I can't comment on performance differences.

Reef early,

>>ron singerman<<
S/V Serenty II
NS U 30 479
Gulfport, FL

[STEVE BOSCO]

yes points badly you will suffer on the wind when racing,

 

---

From: "rda...@rochester.rr.com" <rda...@rochester.rr.com>
To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 22, 2011 11:10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

[Mf]

Allen

Where r u located these days??

Mark fagelman

[Chris Inniss]

Allen Ames,

You have always imparted great advice here but how does retelling a hear-say telephone conversation with someone you have just proven to be a liar benefit shoal draft owners?  Particularly when actual shoal draft owners have checked in to this conversation to give their experience and ownership-based opinions. 

I, personally, don't think you need to retell stories like that when the data related has no basis in fact and only serves to slag off some owner's vessels. You would be better served by being more selective with the friendships you want to "survive".

Chris Inniss

30U 324

Peace on Earth

Chicago

[Robert Horne]

Chris, Totally uncalled for prose or verse - take your choice. Bob Horne

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From: "Chris Inniss" <chris_...@msn.com>
To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Cc: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:26:40 PM
Subject: Re: Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

[Joseph L. Tierney]

Chris:
Not nice. Some validity, but still, not nice.
Joe Tierney  Allegro 1992 NS33 #64  Annapolis, MD

[Joe Valinoti]

Sorry, Chris, but your reply to Allen was not in keeping with the season.  Peace on Earth - Oriental, NC

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
  

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Inniss

To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Cc: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:26 PM

Subject: Re: Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

[ed <(.¿.)>]

Hey people...

Let's all take a Stress Pill, and back off a notch.

 

It's Christmas....Where is the Brotherly Love?

 

May I suggest that we not get personal in these comments.   Boating is about FUN.

 

Cheers,

Eddy

ORION VII

Toronto

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Inniss

To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Cc: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 9:26 PM

Subject: Re: Question concerning shoal vs standard keel on NS 30

[Allen Ames]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my remarks.  Apparently, I should have marked them as a bad attempt at humor. 

 

The shoal draft boats are EXCELLENT boats.  In a one-design race, a well-sailed deep draft boat will usually beat an equally well-sailed shoal draft boat on an around-the-buoys course -- but not by a lot.  Those of us who have sailed both will also note a slight difference in their tracking characteristics.

 

I hope EVERYONE is having very happy holidays!!!

 

Allen Ames 

[Cat Rageous]

I've had Cat Rageous - a shoal draft 30 Ultra - for 10 years. During
that time we've cruised 15,000+ miles - through most of the Chesapeake
Bay, several trips down the AICW, across Florida via the Okeechobee
Canal, to the Dry Tortugas and through the Abacos. We've run aground
a few times, but then I run aground in my kayak just as often.
'Usually' it's not too difficult to just push the boat off of a shoal
- especially since it's stuck in 4' rather than 5' depth. With the
previous owner at the helm, we ran aground on a falling tide in the
ICW and ended up waiting several hours for the tide to come up again -
I guess it would have been a bit longer with 5' draft.

The shoal draft does open up quite a few more anchoring options - I've
come into seemingly crowded anchorages and found plenty of swinging
room out on the edges of the crowd. I haven't formally raced her
much, but Cat Rageous does hold her own with most other boats her size
in the inevitable pick-up race. I've only sailed the 5' draft version
while shopping for my first, and current, Nonsuch. It might be my
imagination, but the headroom seems to be about an inch less (about
6'3") in the shoal draft - the only significant drawback I found.
Both my wife and I are over 6', so this was an initial concern, but
has not been an issue when living aboard for months at a time.

Allan DeWall
Cat Rageous, NS30U #232
Newport News, VA
757-869-5353 (Cell)

[Cat Rageous]

I forgot to mention that I checked the draft on Cat Rageous while she
was on the hard a while back - came up with 4'1" to the watermark on
the hull. Guess I must carry too much stuff around ;-)