Keel crack advice

[Bill Zoda]

this N30 classic had been beached.  There was a small crack where i noticed bilge water discharging.  Opened the crack a bit and shot compressed air in, which, not surprisingly pushed through into the bilge about an inch off the bilge floor between two keel bolts through a small hole on the port side.  We opened it up more at the keel and even punched through from the top( you can see a small circle hole in one of the pics).  I think this is the extent of the crack. 

The plan is to inject epoxy from the top down, then glass and epoxy the patch, sand and paint.  Does anyone thing that this crack is something that would require me to drop the keel? or is the epoxy fix sufficient?  Rest of the keep and starboard side seem fine.

Bill

N30C

[Gary Mertl]

To be sure, I would vote for dropping the keel. That would reveal any damage you might not be able to see. Not the cheapest but maybe the safest. Good luck either way...

Gary
Catspaw
N30U #362
Blaine, WA

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[Benjamin W Stookey]

I'd consider dropping the keel so you can inspect the keel bolts if the keel took a lot of torquing...

-Ben

SWALLOW

26C

[Bill Spencer]

Quite a few years ago we noticed a crack developing between the hull and the lead keel, and worried about it.  The crack seems to be a typical problem, partly due to the difficulty in getting a surface covering to bond equally to the lead and the fiberglass at their juncture.  Anyway, we decided to drop the keel, add some sealant and re-tighten the keel bolts. 

Dropping the keel is not an easy DIY project, which was the only way we had to accomplish it.  It was during the summer so we could tie up the club's travel lift for a few days with the boat in the slings just high enough so the keel could drop, but not necessarily fall completely out.  Just in case, we built a frame to support the sides of the keel so that it couldn't fall over,  as we supposed it would be too heavy to easily lift back into place.

The boat was lifted, keel bolt nuts removed (do you know what a 2" socket costs?), and we waited.  Nothing happened.  No amount of banging, wedging, tapping on the keel bolts from inside made a difference.  The lead keel refused to drop even a centimeter, so we finally sat the boat back down and re-tightened the bolts, covered the crack with epoxy and paint, and went sailing.  As I said, that was many years ago, and no problems since except a small cosmetic crack at the keel joint.

Bill Spencer - LIONHEART, NS30U 352 Hyde Park, NY

[Bill Zoda]

Thanks Bill, I was thinking it may be an over reaction to drop the whole keel.  The crack you see on the photo was really gouged out by us to open it up, and did not just appear as it is shown.

[Brian Monrad]

My understanding is that there are two quite distinct issued that could arise here:

1. Nonsuch 30s (and larger, but not smaller) have a balsa core in the hull - even below the waterline.  If that balsa core gets wet, it goes soggy and you lose structural integrity.

2. A distinct issue is that water can get into the layers of fiberglass at the bottom of the hull (i.e. where the bilge meets the keel) and that freezing and thawing in the winter can cause de-lamination of the fiberglass.  Again, this raises issues of structural integrity.

I strongly recommend finding someone with a good moisture meter and the knowledge to use it and ask them if they can do reliable moisture readings. (I don't know if the metal keel will prevent good readings at the joint itself, but a moisture meter should detect moisture getting into the balsa higher up.)

[Joe Valinoti]

My recollection is that the 30s are not cored below the waterline.  However, I don’t know if that’s true for all.  When I drilled a hole for my reverse cycle A/C system, it was solid glass.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[Bob Jenkins]

At RCYC ,host of the 2014 Rendezvous there is a 30 sitting on the hard. It has large sections of the outer layer of fibreglass removed, including down to within 6 " of the centreline . It is all balsa cored.

T he boat itself could be a write off and the cause of what has happened is unknown.  

Bob Jenkins

Good News 30u # 323

Bluffers park YC

Toronto.

Sent from my iPad

[John Newell]

The 30 in question is Out of Reach.  The original owner never replaced the "doughnut" for the sail drive causing water to penetrate the core.  Also the owner always left the mast in over the winter and to make matters worse the cradle arms were angled in ( /_\ ) to the centre line.  This caused the hull to de-laminate at these stress point due to constant rocking in winter.  The outer layer of fibreglass was removed to allow the hull core to dry out.   The 30's have a balsa core with solid fibreglass around fittings.  Out of Reach (sail # 14) was one of the original 30's.  I don't know if some of the later ones were constructed differently.  The 26s are constructed with a solid fibreglass hull with balsa cored deck and cabin top.

John Newell

Mascouche 26C 1

Toronto 

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Subject: Re: Keel crack advice

From: bob.j...@sympatico.ca
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:54:20 -0400
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

[Jack Dokter]

Even though the 26 Nonsuch's are solid fiber-glassed hulls, I still recall seeing the small gussets around the bilge area of another being cracked or split in two, which I believe happens from the same scenario of "winter cradle rocking" from masts staying up and poor quality cradles.

Jack Dokter

Nine Lives  26C W21 099

Penetang, On

Jack Dokter

Nine Lives 1983 26C W21 #099

Penetanguishene, Ont

[Ryan Gniazdowski]

       When I bought my boat ten years ago. it was just raised off of St Lauderdale's Harbor bottom by a crane and thrown on a salvage barge. It had several tons of mud inside which entered in through a 12 ft wide hole that started at the top of the cabin and went down to the keel. I repaired the hole using epoxy resin and foam core material. The hull was balsa cored everwhere except the cabin side. It should be noted that with half of the structure of the boat missing, when it was lefted again on a trailer with slings on the ends, there was no movement in the hull. It is a very strong hull.

      With that said, "Out of Reach's" problem should not be the end of the boat. Also, the keel repair mentioned should be an easy patch up and go job without dropping the keel.

       As far as moisture meters go, I borrowed one from the yard to play with. I read moisture in my rudder and my hull. I was super discouraged until I checked other boats in the yard which all had similar readings. The other boats included 2 Hinckleys and a Swan. I'm not going to worry about moisture in the hull until I hear about another Nonsuch sinking from it.

 

Ryan Gniazdowski

ZuZu's Petal 30U

Cambridge,Md.

Toronto 

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[Benjamin W Stookey]

So, I actually had my keel re-bedded today. It came off after taking the fiberglass wrapping off and a good bit of shaking, but I thought this might provide a good visual for some of you. You can see the keel damage that still needs to be faired out.

I've very happy with the results.

Ben Stookey

S/V SWALLOW 26C

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