Hot Water Heater

[Tris Pough]

I read with interest the discussions about insurance and water heaters. The problem I believe is the pilot light.

 

My heater had been a problem for years so I replace it with an excel from Excelamerica LLC. It is about the same size and I only had to move the top mounting bole 3/8 of an inch and it fit right in. It has not piolet light, electric ignition(two d cells ,no wiring required). The absences of the piolet light means all I haft to do is turn on the procaine and I have hot water.

 

Mariah C26

 

Tristram H. Pough

58 Mountian Ave

Larchmont, NY 10538

914-833-3035

914-833-0078 Fax

Email:  tr...@edwardwarren.com

 

 

Providing tenants with a decisive edge in commercial real estate negotiations for over 20 years

.

[mark fagelman, MD]

Does it work well?

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[Jack Dokter]

It's also because there is no positive exterior exhaust venting.  If winds can blow down through the stack, then it's not allowed.
You need a system with a power vented exhaust, and no pilot light.

Otherwise, convert to a 120 volt/engine 6 gallon heater system.  I went with this system and love it.   It retains heat for close to 12 hours once the engine shuts down or you disconnect from shore power.   If your cruising, you will be running the engine to charge batteries every once in a while as it is,  so your water tank is back up to maximum hot water.

The water heater tank system is about $300 ,  plus plumbing, and wiring to a dedicated 15 Amp AC breaker.  I mounted it between the prop stuffing box and vertical rudder gussets.

Jack Dokter
Nine Lives  26c w21 099
Penetanguishene On

[Joe Valinoti]

I agree with Jack.  I’ve never regretted replacing my propane unit with the engine/120 V unit.  Mine actually gives me shower water 24 hrs after engine shut down, but then I live in the south.  I’ve photos of my installation if wanted.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~

--

[ed ‹(•¿•)›]

Please Joe.

I would like to see the installation photos

 

Ed Collis

NS30 U

ORION VII

Toronto

[David Biltcliffe]

Good afternoon Joe

I too would like to see the pictures of the installation.

Replacing the Paloma on my boat is now near the top of the list.

Thank you

David

"Spray" 1981 30C #93
South Dartmouth and Westport Ma.

[Jim Cosgrove]

Mark,

When I purchased Fate in 2012, I replaced the Paloma with an Excel.  It worked but did not always stay on.  That is, I'd open the hot water faucet, the water heater would come on, give me some hot water, but then shut off.  The folks at Excelamerica tried to be helpful and told me settings on the heater to change.  That helped, but did not totally fix the problem.  They told me that my water pressure might not be quite high enough for the heater's sensor.  However, this year they came out with a new model that has a totally different sensor and it is not affected by low water pressure.  I installed the new model and it works perfectly!  I'm very pleased with it.

Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD

[mark fagelman, MD]

Thanks

[Tris Pough]

The heater is vent less so I am unsure what the issue is with the stack. I just removed the old stack and left the vent.hole.

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 9:45:36 AM UTC-4, Tris Pough wrote:

I read with interest the discussions about insurance and water heaters. The problem I believe is the pilot light.

 hole

[Jack Dokter]

So, if the unit is ventless, then where's the exhaust venting out to?....directly in the cabin?   If your burning propane, you will have carbon monoxide emissions.
Jack

--

[Jim Cosgrove]

Ventless or not, one of the byproducts is CO and you need adequate ventilation whenever you are using the stove, heater, water heater or other propane burning appliance. I suppose a power vented exhaust would help to ensure this automatically (but just for the water heater).  I open the hatch and several ports.  I also have a CO monitor which I believe is essential for all boats.  (I also have a propane detector/alarm wired to the solenoid.)

Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD

--

[William Baxter]

I use an Excel, but vented it using the existing stack and a spare Wolter hood. The Oxygenn Depletion Sensor 

[William Baxter]

... Is supposed to act as a safety, but I will not trust it. The ODS seems to be extremely sensitive, and I think it cuts out way on the safe side. Even so, no vent is a (serious) accident waiting to happen.

Bill Baxter

Persistence #507

Penetang ON

Currently windbound in Snug Harbour north of Parry Sound

On Tuesday, 7 June 2016, Jack Dokter <dokte...@gmail.com> wrote:

[stonodo]

Hello, I just purchased a 1984 30' Ultra that has a very rust Paloma water heater, it is vented through a chimney and I woukld like to replace it with a vented model. Is the Excel vented and could you tell me the model number of that new model that you nare happy with? 

Many Thanks,

Neil, Halifax Nova Scotia

[Paul Miller]

Hi Neil,

You want this one: https://excelonlinestore.com/product/excel-16-gpm-tankless-gas-water-heater-low-pressure-startup-ventfree-lpg/

You would never want to install it vent free as advertised but fortunately it is almost a drop in fit where the Paloma was, including using two of the same bolt holes and the chimney. You can fashion a vent adapter from a household heating duct boot quite easily.

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[David Young]

A few weeks ago, I also installed the Excel model Paul cites. In my case it replaced a Rinnai which must be very similar to the Paloma units which most of our boats appear to have been originally equipped with. I have been using it vent free and it appears to work quite well. Mine is the new version which requires only a 2 PSI pressure change to activate the main burner.

If any owner out there has a Rinnai unit that they are trying to limp along with I would be happy to pass along my old heater for parts. All you need to do is let me know and reimburse me for shipping. I’m not sure which component of my Rinnai no longer functions but it has something to do with the unit transitioning from pilot mode to main burner activation.

David Young
Bay Cat, 30U #402
Suttons Bay, MI
USA

[Joe Valinoti]

Neil:  You may also want to consider an engine fired unit.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~

 

From: stonodo

Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 4:20 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: Hot Water Heater

 

[Paul Miller]

I found that when I tried it vent free the amount of moist heat released inside the boat was untenable, especially as it was trapped in the over sink cabinet.

I do love the instant hot water any time anywhere though.

To each his own but I would never go back to an engine heat dependent tank.

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

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[Joe Valinoti]

My engine/110V unit may not be instant, it does take 10 minutes before I can take a shower, but it’s always there without turning anything on.  Whether in a slip or at anchor, I do have to run the engine anyway to get underway.  The hot water will last 24 to 48 hours.  I would never return to the propane unit as I would lose the extra storage and 2nd dorade vent.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_ ~ (\_ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~

 

From: Paul Miller

Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2020 8:14 PM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Hot Water Heater

 

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[John Batchelor]

Hi Joe

I second your vote for your engine/110 volt preference.

Wind Rose has that setup with a Paloma for instant hot water when away from the dock.

Since I recently added another 440 Ah battery bank ( total 880 Ah) and a 6000 watt inverter, I tried a simple experiment today.

I disconnected shore power and turned on the inverter - which is wired into “shore power” using a 6 foot long shore power cord plugged into a female shore deck plug - turned on the 110 v water heater and watched the battery monitor tell me I was using 1500 watts. 

The hot water reached temp in 20 minutes or so and used a total of 67 Ah, which I think is great - the engine will recharge that in no time

The Paloma is going to have to go 

John Batchelor

S/V Wind Rose NS36 #27

Kirkland WA, RVYC

On Aug 25, 2020, at 5:43 PM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Michael Hoff]

Joe, 

I'm planning to ditch an old Paloma too. Can you provide the make and model of the engine/110v unit you're referring to and perhaps a photo of where and how it's installed. 

Thanks.

Mike Hoff

s/v Evelyn May NS 26C 112

Lake Tashmoo, Martha's Vineyard MA

[Joe Weinbrecht]

Mike, I like the idea as well. The question would be where would we fit it on the 26c.

Joe

NS26C #156

SASSAFRAS RIVER,MD

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[Joe Valinoti]

The biggest problem is finding room in a 26.  Here is a photo of my installation which is a Force 10 -

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221

Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: 'Michael Hoff' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:09 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

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[Joe Weinbrecht]

Mike,

After seeing Joe V's pics, I found this heater and with the measurements checked out the space in my 26.  In my boat there is a space in the port laz above my starter battery.  It appears that the heater with both the exchanger fittings and service fitting on the front will fit. See pics below.  Also on my W21 the heat exchanger portals are on the back which is a small convenience.  Starter battery could be moved to stbd next to my single house batt for balance.

Cursory look indicated service lines could be run thru bulkhead and run parallel to fuel tank to get into the bilge for reconnection.  I also just replaced the deck drain hose which you might want to do prior to hiding it with the heater.

https://marinepartssource.com/6-gal-120v-water-heater-kuuma-11810?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwreT8BRDTARIsAJLI0KId8YArBAnlgNEHK_CdTsXED-aidDfH3cZZfY8DUfUWo97x1BW2Ps8aAsCtEALw_wcB  

Joe

NS26C #156

SEA HORSE

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[Mark Powers]

If you go to the Nonsuch photo gallery in the fourth row of the 26C you will find Catbert.  In the photo collection is a photo of a hot water heater installed in the starboard locker at the back. Because the tank was above the engine a header/overflow tank was necessary. You can just make that out in the photo.  Here is the link, I hope.  https://pbase.com/nonsuch/image/76502150

Mark Powers

La Reina 26C

Vancouver, B.C.

[joew....@gmail.com]

Thanks for the pic. my 1985 W21 has an aux tank like in the pic, so I guess I'm good to go. I was going to have all the 35 yr old hoses replaced, so this job may just be another piece of the puzzle.

I'm giving my 2 nephews a list for Christmas of everything I have done to their inheritance since I bought her...damn "Your Inheritance" would have been a great name for the boat.

Joe

NS26C #156

SEA HORSE

[Robert Crothers]

Hi 

Has anyone tried the portable Gaslands 1.32 GMP, 5 litre, 34,000 BTU compact, tankless, hot water heater with the D cell battery ignition, vented unit. The size is 13" x 20 " and for our boats it seem like a perfect replacement for  an old Palarmo hwh at approx. $200.00 CD. I am really interested to try one at that price. It looks like a plug and play solution given we really only need it for washing dishes and the odd shower.

Robert Crothers

N S Coaster, Nonsuch 30 Ultra #237

KYC, Kingston Ontario

rcrot...@hotmail.com

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 9:45:36 AM UTC-4 Tris Pough wrote:

I read with interest the discussions about insurance and water heaters. The problem I believe is the pilot light.

 

My heater had been a problem for years so I replace it with an excel from Excelamerica LLC. It is about the same size and I only had to move the top mounting bole 3/8 of an inch and it fit right in. It has not piolet light, electric ignition(two d cells ,no wiring required). The absences of the piolet light means all I haft to do is turn on the procaine and I have hot water.

 

Mariah C26

 

Tristram H. Pough

58 Mountian Ave

Larchmont, NY 10538

914-833-3035

914-833-0078 Fax

Email:  tr...@edwardwarren.com

 

 

Providing tenants with a decisive edge in commercial real estate negotiations for over 20 years

.

[Bob Gehrman]

Robert - The Excel costs a little more but it fits exactly in the same spot as the Palermo. No new screws needed, the water and gas connections fit exactly. It’s worth the extra $100 just for that.

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[John Dawson]

NS30U 253 “Proud Mary”

Date: 12 April 24 1542 hrs

Subject: Excel Vent-Free Tankless Propane Water Heater, Low Pressure Startup, 1.6GPM

Hello,

OEM Palermo water heater successfully replaced with subject equipment. Cosmetically, Excel water heater dimensions indicate larger foot print.

Research indicates vent-free is possibly based on outside operation. That is while operational environment does not contain significant exhaust, vent-free does not indicate zero exhaust.

Excel water heater replaced Palermo when including active venting.

Full disclosure, Proud Mary purchased without a water heater hence empirical comparison not possible. However, currently hot water luxury is a wonderful convenience.

BTW, have not located another Nonsuch in Portland Oregon

Comments questions concerns are welcomed,

john dawson (Proud Mary) NS30U 253

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[Michael Passero]

I replaced the original Palermo with an Excel 2-3 years ago.  Love it.  Wish I had done it years earlier. 

Michael Passero

Born To Run, NS 33, #42

On Apr 12, 2024, at 7:41 PM, John Dawson <johnhowa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[BRIAN CAYER]

Michael,

The thing I like about it is the choice of flexible connectors to where the old water heater once sat. Is that the space forward of the salon table bed in your 33?

Don’t forget to hook up the chimney.

Brian 

Spirit~Wind

N30U 419

Deep River, CT

On Apr 13, 2024, at 4:01 PM, Michael Passero <mepass...@gmail.com> wrote:



I replaced the original Palermo with an Excel 2-3 years ago.  Love it.  Wish I had done it years earlier. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/D0685A53-4EA8-439D-A631-0C3B7F630C59%40gmail.com.

[Michael Passero]

Brian,

It’s ventless, so the chimney is not required and it would take some retrofitting to get that done.  It only fires up on demand for hot water so if there is any CO, it’s not being produced for a long duration.   The location is forward of the salon table in a dedicated locker. 

Michael Passero

Born To Run NS33 

On Apr 13, 2024, at 4:58 PM, BRIAN CAYER <b.k....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



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[BRIAN CAYER]

Michael,

Thats good to hear. I once met a lady that wanted to somehow fit a wood stove in that space. That’s how old school I am.

Brian

Spirit~Wind

On Apr 13, 2024, at 5:39 PM, Michael Passero <mepass...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Barry Connell]

Considering replacing my dead Paloma water heater. What model number Excel did you install, and does it vent upward like the old one?

Barry Connell

Nocturne (N36)

On Apr 13, 2024, at 4:00 PM, Michael Passero <mepass...@gmail.com> wrote:

I replaced the original Palermo with an Excel 2-3 years ago.  Love it.  Wish I had done it years earlier. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/D0685A53-4EA8-439D-A631-0C3B7F630C59%40gmail.com.

[Michael Passero]

On Apr 13, 2024, at 6:44 PM, Barry Connell <envir...@gmail.com> wrote:

Considering replacing my dead Paloma water heater. What model number Excel did you install, and does it vent upward like the old one?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/D4B95C32-BA5F-4F8C-9BAA-EB922096C99B%40gmail.com.

[Joe Valinoti]

You may want to consider a more conventional engine/110 VAC heater.  It’s always there - nothing to turn on or off, unless you’re at the dock and no propane to worry about etc, etc it’s just always there ready for you.  If you want some details, email me.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221

Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Barry Connell

Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2024 6:43 PM

To: 'Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: Hot Water Heater

 

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Michael,

It is called a ventless heater but that is when it is used in a large space. Most if not all surveyors and therefore insurance companies will require a vent.The Excel has an oxygen depletion sensor. Without a vent the sensor may read a low oxygen level and shut the heater off.

Mark Powers

[Michael Passero]

Mark,

I’ve never had a problem and I keep a CO detector on the boat.  Unless you have someone who likes long, luxurious showers, it is never fired up for very long and, of course, the boat is very well ventilated.  The on-demand is very efficient; it produces hot water almost instantly.  I have to say I’ve been very satisfied with it.

Born To Run, #42

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

The only way my surveyor would approve the heater was it it was vented outside the boat and I had a CO detector installed. He was happy about the oxygen depletion sensor. I don’t have a good Charlie Noble so if the wind is blowing a gust will momentarily blow the exhaust  back Down the stack and the oxygen depletion sensor shuts the heater off. The options I have considered are removing the heater , figuring out how to install a fan to force the Exhaust out the stack or changing the above deck arrangements so I can fit a proper C.N.

Mark Powers

[Paul Miller]

Out of curiosity I tried my Excel out without an exhaust shroud when I was installing it. In the over sink cabinet (30U) it immediately fogged the sliding doors and produced a lot of heat. I can’t imagine running it in that area anyway unvented. I made a sheet metal shroud to adapt it to the original Paloma CN and have never had any trouble with heat or humidity since. I do have a CO detector just above that cabinet and it has never been set off by the heater.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay B.C.

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[329a...@gmail.com]

I too installed an excel and tied it into the original Charlie noble used by the Paloma. Works perfectly. I would not recommend using without an exhaust. Too much heat and humidity. , best Gary 

[Joe Valinoti]

Photos of that same spot on my 30U -

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Hmmm ....... another one of those "BSAs (Brown Sauce Addicts)". One finds them a lot in the UK. Truth is, Joe, your 110/engine driven boiler has always appealed to me but it wouldn't pay off the same dividends without AC shorepower. I have always taken a dim view of running a 25+ HP diesel (pollution, $$$$$ fuel cost, etc.) in order to heat water (or, frankly, even charge batteries).

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

Actually, the 6 gallon unit I have gives us two showers a day with some left over for washing dishes and it doesn’t take more then about 10 –15 minutes of running the engine.  The hot water lasts well past just overnight.  I love the additional storage and, of course the extra funnel/dorade installed in place of the Charley Noble.  It would be unusual for us to anchor more then several days at a time, so it fit’s our needs perfectly.

See you July in Toronto.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[esan...@gmail.com]

Hi all.  It's a couple of years since I chimed in, when I got my first boat,  a NS22 named Dauntless (previously Rosy Red).  I've just sold her and have bought a NS26, which was surveyed last Friday.  One of the items noted on the survey is the Bosch LPG water heater "with no room sealed combustion chamber mounted in head".  The surveyor's recommendation is to remove the water heater and supply line and plug the LPG supply at source.  So I'm particularly interested in this discussion.  From what I've read, I'm leaning towards Joe's solution, the engine heated / AC water heater.  Having said that, there is already a propane line running from the tanks to the head.  Would anyone here be kind enough to recommend what type and make of water heater to buy, where to install the heater, etc.  The current one is mounted above the head.  In my previous boat I had a hot water heater installed which was great, but needed shore power to operate.  Now that I have a bit bigger boat, I'll probably spend some nights at anchor and it would be great to have hot water without being plugged in.  Thanks for any advice.

Elsie Sands

SV Seven Stars NS26C  #60

Maple Bay, BC

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Elsie,

Congrats on moving up!  The N26 is a great model.

A good engine-driven water heater, the solution Joe's recommending, will hold lose about one Fahrenheit degree (0.5 C) per hour after the engine or AC is turned off.  That will generally give you comfortable hot water for 12-24 hours, depending on your usage and comfort levels. 

A demand-driven heater, like the Excel others are recommending, will give you as much hot water as you like, whenever you like.   Mark Powers could probably give you good advice about how to get an installation that a surveyor and insurance company would approve.

I've had both over my life, and both are nice to have.  

One thing buyers of Nonsuches that have multiple original-installation propane devices in their cabins: propane safety regulations have changed since the boats were built.  If you have more than one device, there may be a Tee somewhere inside the boat where a single line from the locker is divided to service the two devices.  This is no longer up to code.  Each propane device inside a boat should be serviced by a separate single, unbroken line directly from the locker to it.  The only place a line should fork in any way is inside the propane locker.

You can't make a bad choice between engine-driven and on-demand.  There are simply different steps required to make them work.  For me, if I was cruising and planning to have propane anyway, I'd go back to on-demand.  As it is, I don't cruise, don't cook, and don't have a diesel engine.  I'm leaning toward getting rid of my propane entirely and using the space for other things.  My hot water relies on getting my water heater reinstalled after moving it for my engine replacement, and relying on shore power and short trips.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Peter Grabow]

Hi All,

Kinda late to this party, but thought I'd add my 2 cents (2.8 cents for my Canadian friends!)...

I replaced/upgraded the entire propane system on my 30U in Spring of 2021. The project was prompted by the old/original Paloma water heater beginning to give me some concerns as it was showing its age, and the propane system needed to be brought up-to-code.  I too installed the Excel ventless unit, and also made a hood to connect the new Excel to the existing Charlie Noble (it wasn't difficult). Others had warned that if not vented externally, all of the heat and moisture produced is dumped into the boat's interior.  Very happy with the Excel (it is a 'low pressure' model so it only needs 2 PSI of water pressure to start heating).

I documented the process and posted photos to the discussion group for reference. I believe you can find it by searching the discussion group for 'Propane installation complete' - it was posted in May 2021.

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III

1987 30U 430

Jersey City, NJ

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Went and found Peter's post so other's don't have to.  (In order to avoid straining myself, I try to stick to not more than one good deed per month.  This knocks off April for me.)

It's well worth taking a look at: https://groups.google.com/g/ina-nonsuch-discussion-group/c/WE3CGAWaP7U/m/PEyUcN01BAAJ

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Michael Stangl]

I am in the process of installing an Isotemp Slim 25L in the stern of my Nonsuch 30U similar to what Joe did with his Force 10 water heater. Does anyone have any photos or diagrams that show the best pathways for 1) the hoses from/to the engine to the water heater and 2) from the water heater to a tie-in point in the fresh water distribution system?

Thanks,

Mike Stangl

Mariposa 

NS30U / Hull #272

Dutch Harbor, RI

[Don Crossley]

Hi Mike,

 

My boat has a Isotemp 30 installed by PO’s boat-yard guys. It sits on a platform aft of the engine. The water connections are on the starboard side. The fresh water hoses come from under the head sink, through the bilge, up past the port engine stringer, aft around to starboard side of Isotemp.

 

On my Westerbeke engine, a 35D-three installed by a PO in 2004, it was designed with a short hose that loops from the thermostat around to the water pump, if I remember correctly. This hose was removed and two hoses installed that carried hot coolant water to the Isotemp. They installers put in a one-way shut off valve in the middle of each of these hoses. I think the hose size for the engine and the Isotemp are different sizes so they had to put size adapters at the valves.

 

My tank had a very slow leak, a drip, from where the coolant hoses connected to the Isotemp. This I believe is because the yard guys either didn’t use the correct thread sealant on the tank connections, or rushed the job and didn’t allow the sealant to properly cure before running the engine. I had to take it all apart and redo all the fittings.

 

The one-way valves mentioned above were kinda useless, if you shut them off the coolant wouldn’t circulate and engine will over heat. So last year I had installed two-way valves so that you can by-pass the flow of coolant to the Isotemp. This was if there is ever a problem with the hot water tank you can isolate it from the engine.

 

Please note the following:

• use high temp hoses, like car engine heater hose.
• use high temp thread sealant (Permatex?) on the hose fittings at the tank and read the instructions and let it cure properly. I think it says to wait 24-48 hrs to cure. Also, I believe this type of sealant cures by contact with metal, so don’t use Teflon tape on the fittings. This is not a job you want to do again.
• install  two-way valves, and attach a sign nearby so that other people know how the valves work. They must be either both on or both off, otherwise engine will overheat.
• Make sure shore power is off when installing 120VAC connections. You will need a spare circuit breaker on your 120VAC panel, and the appropriate marine wire. Do not use twist nuts to make 120VAC connections.
• You’ll need to add coolant to the engine to account for the volume taking up by the hoses and the hot water tank coil, and burp the system to get he air out. And make sure you use the correct compatible type of coolant, you can’t mix different types of coolant, such as green and red. Or perhaps this is a good time to flush the whole engine coolant and replace if it has not been done in a while.

 

See photos attached. Hope that helps.

 

I’m on my way to my boat to install the sail, if you have any question please let me know.

 

Cheers,

Don

’87 NS30U #369 - Breezin’

Vancouver, BC

.
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[Don Crossley]

Here's another picture showing tank on platform aft of engine. Sorry I had a little trouble with previous post and accidentally duplicated some photos.

Don

[Joe Valinoti]

It seems to me that access to the aft part of the engine would be hard.  Also, when I go down the lazerette, that is where my feet go.   My tank is located aft of that and is not in the way of anything. 

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Michael Stangl]

Don, 

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience and photos. All very helpful. My boat has a Westerbeke W27 so the heat exchanger take-off is on the back of the engine toward the cabin area. The coolant hose runs will have to go toward the stern of the boat.  

I will try to post some photos as my project progresses. 

Mike

Mariposa 

NS 30U Hull #272

Dutch Harbor, Ri

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[Don Crossley]

Hi,

The coolant hoses connected to the Isotemp are not attached to the heat exchanger. My heat exchanger is also towards the cabin area. The hoses to the Isotemp are connected at the aft end of the engine, near the engine water pump, where the alternator belt is. 

Don

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[Joe Valinoti]

In case I didn’t post the photo of my hot water heater hoses on the engine manifold -

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Joe Valinoti]

That’s interesting, Don, as Westerbeke, in their service bulletin said to do it like I did.  Your way seems easier.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[doncr...@gmail.com]

Joe, my engine is a little different, a W35-D Three, installed in 2004 by PO. See diagram attached, the short hose I’ve marked in red. You remove it, and connect the heater hoses in its place.

Cheers,

Don

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[Michael Stangl]

Don, 

Attached is Westerbeke Service Bulletin 114 for the installation of water heaters. Since my boat has a W27 engine with a FLOWCONTROLLER kit with the coolant hose fittings are on the "back" side of the engine which faces the cabin. 

My problem is that I cannot run the hoses on the port side of the engine because that pathway is blocked by the pre-heat solenoid.  As it stands now, I plan on running the hoses on the starboard side of the engine after making a "U-turn" coming out of the flow controller ports.  This is what Joe did as shown in the photo below. 

I would prefer to run the coolant hoses to the port side of the engine to avoid the pressure loss associated with making a "U-turn" with the hose.  Also, the starboard side of the engine compartment has less space available than the port side of the engine. 

I can not see a way to avoid running the hoses on the starboard side of the engine other than tapping into the coolant hose after it exits the manifold, before it reaches the fresh water pump. I am hesitant to try this as it might cause the coolant to cavitate on the suction side of the pump.

I guess I am on a fact finding trip to find out what others might have done in terms of the hose pathways.  The information that you and Joe have provided has been very helpful!

Thanks again,

Mike 

Mariposa 

NS30U / Hull #272

Dutch Harbor, RI

Michael P. Stangl, PE

Renewable Power Design Group

Email: mst...@rpdg.us.com

Tel: +1.518.369.9960

Skype: Stangl.Work

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[Joe Valinoti]

Having done all this work myself about 20 years ago, I only remember one problem and that was trying to bleed the air out of the system after completion (but not since).  I don’t think the elbows cause any problems.  The engine temp is always normal.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[BRIAN CAYER]

I am all for capturing however many BTUs of heat for showers or cleaning up out of what otherwise would be waisted on warming the ocean. If you have an ICE then capture the heat to your benefit and save the planet.

Just sayin,

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

Deep River, Ct

On Apr 18, 2024, at 8:25 PM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



Having done all this work myself about 20 years ago, I only remember one problem and that was trying to bleed the air out of the system after completion (but not since).  I don’t think the elbows cause any problems.  The engine temp is always normal.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Michael Stangl

Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2024 7:22 PM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Hot Water Heater

 

Don,

 

Attached is Westerbeke Service Bulletin 114 for the installation of water heaters. Since my boat has a W27 engine with a FLOWCONTROLLER kit with the coolant hose fittings are on the "back" side of the engine which faces the cabin.

 

My problem is that I cannot run the hoses on the port side of the engine because that pathway is blocked by the pre-heat solenoid.  As it stands now, I plan on running the hoses on the starboard side of the engine after making a "U-turn" coming out of the flow controller ports.  This is what Joe did as shown in the photo below.

 

I would prefer to run the coolant hoses to the port side of the engine to avoid the pressure loss associated with making a "U-turn" with the hose.  Also, the starboard side of the engine compartment has less space available than the port side of the engine.

 

I can not see a way to avoid running the hoses on the starboard side of the engine other than tapping into the coolant hose after it exits the manifold, before it reaches the fresh water pump. I am hesitant to try this as it might cause the coolant to cavitate on the suction side of the pump.

 

I guess I am on a fact finding trip to find out what others might have done in terms of the hose pathways.  The information that you and Joe have provided has been very helpful!

 

Thanks again,

 

Mike

 

Mariposa

NS30U / Hull #272

Dutch Harbor, RI

 

<~WRD0003.jpg>

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[Don Crossley]

Mike,

My engine is different than yours, although similar idea, a short hose removed from engine and then connect hoses to/from Isotemp. I'm guessing Joe has same engine as yours, and he's a engine mechanic, I am not. So you're probably better off following his set-up. My earlier comments were more directed towards the hose connections at the Isotemp. But I do believe having two way valves in the hoses is a good idea. That way any external or internal coolant leaks at the tank can be isolated. Or if you find your engine is losing coolant, you can shut off the hoses to the Isotemp and know if it is the problem or not.

Don

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[esan...@gmail.com]

Bob, thanks very much for all that helpful information.  I agree that the 26 is a very sweet boat.  

I've checked the propane lines coming out of the propane locker on Seven Stars and I see that there are two of them, one to port and one to starboard.   That makes sense as the water heater is above the head on the starboard side and the propane stove and oven are on the port side in the galley. 

 I will get rid of the Bosch water heater and probably replace it with an Excel, in the same location above the head.  I just need to determine if that will supply hot water to both the sink in the head and the sink in the galley.  Paul Miller has kindly invited me to come and see the Excel installation in Sandpiper over at Cowichan Bay.  I understand that I'll need a CO2 monitor and (I guess) a propane sniffer.  

Thanks again for your kind advice.

Elsie Sands

NS26  #60 Seven Stars

Maple Bay, BC

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

The Excel will supply hot water to both sinks. I ran the hot water outlet from the Excel through the wet locker and under the head sink. I installed a T fitting in the line there, running one line to the hot water tap in the head and the other one under the cabin sole and then up inside the galley cabinet to the hot water tap at the galley sink. I had to pull both sinks out to make the connection. If you are lucky the lines will already be there from the Bosch heater. 

Remember, in the winter you need to drain the water out of the system so it does not freeze.

Mark Powers