topping lift

[Gail]

We are working on a new-to-us 30 C that has the original rigging for the topping lift. We want to run the line back up along the wishbone, down along the deck to the cockpit. Does anyone happen to know how long that line needs to be? 

We are appreciating following along your various conversations as we work away. 

Thanks

Gail Marshall

Julian Kuffler

Nepeta 30 C

Mount Desert, ME

[Joe Valinoti]

Sorry, Gail, I have one, but have no idea how long it is.  I would just add the length from the aft end of the wishbone forward and then down and then back to the cockpit.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Mike Jennings]

Also add the rope needed for the block arrangement you intend to use plus a bit. 

Mike Jennings.

NS005 Chancy.

Port Moody.

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[W C]

I don't know what the length is for a 30.  I have a 33 and the measurements are 50' 4'' for the 1/4" wire topping lift, Topping lift pennant is 90' of 7/16".  That should get you in the ballpark.  The measurements for all my lines are in the owners manual, so you might check that if you have one.  I think all the owners manuals are available on the nonsuch website.

Barry Clark

Swan's Wing, NS 354 #71

Urbanna, VA

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[Bob Gehrman]

Gail - My notes say 71' of 3/8" line with a 1" eye. Oddly that line is not included on the Running Rigging chart in my Nonsuch manual.

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

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[Joe Valinoti]

Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the manuals show the topping lift coming back to the cockpit but there have been posts on this subject before.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

As Mike Jennings points out, consider what kind of block arrangement you have at the end of the boom for the topping lift. It's a weighty boom and sail and you need a 4:1 or 5:1. You'll never be able to lift the boom without this kind of mechanical advantage.

What about doing a dry run with a length of old line (or 2 lines tied together) in order to arrive at the right length. Or, simply buy a little too much, rig it all and cut off the excess. You can always use a length of extra line for something.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Don Crossley]

Hi, I got my topping lift rope replaced last year. I was charged for 85' of rope, which is more than I needed, but I like to have some extra. 75ft would have probably been enough, but 85ft was only an extra $9. Aside from straight measurements of boom and blocks, you need some extra for wraps on the winch and eye splice. Better to have a rope that is little too long than the other way around.😉

Don

'87 NS30U #369

Vancouver BC

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[Gail]

In the meantime,  Julian broke out a tape measure because the mast and boom are still on sawhorses. Then he and our dog went to our local chandlery. He bought 75 feet of 3/8" line and our dog scored a handful of treats. Everyone had a good time. It's nice to have the confirmation from several of you. So, thank you. We've had two prior Nonsuch-a 30 and a 26- and both were rigged the way this one is, which is a 4:1 and both prior owners had run the lift back to the cockpit. (Always buy a boat from an engineer if you can.)  So now he's got the line, I think he's good to go from there. If 75 is wrong, will report back in for other's future reference. 

Thanks to all. 

Gail 

Nepeta 30C

Mount Desert, ME

[William Evans]

I would hook up the safety wire to the boom and remove the old line and measure.

Bill Evans Companionship NS 30U #465 Galesville

On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 1:15 PM Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:

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William Evans
“Companionship “ 30U #465
West River MD.

[Ray Dykstra]

I strongly suspect the added friction of running the line thru the boom is a recipe for disaster.

Ray Dykstra

Timaru Nui

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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

It won't do Gail much good to measure her old line as it isn't the correct length for the way she wants to rig the T/L. Hopefully, 75' will suffice. 

I'd run the line conventionally along the boom but, just maybe, attach a few small blocks to the boom and run the line through them - less friction. I've attached a shot of my T/L line running through one of two little blocks.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Gail]

Thanks all. Maybe I misunderstand the comment, but we won't be running anything "through" the boom. The line will run along the boom through six or seven eyes straps, like the reefing lines. We will have a double block on the boom adjacent to the mast and then another on the mast. Then across the top of the cabin to the winch-also like the reefing lines. We've had two prior Nonsuch, each of which came to us already rigged like this. They worked fine without incident. It allows one to adjust the topping lift from the cockpit with a winch no matter what heading you are on. When reefing, it's easy and safe to temporarily winch the weight of the boom off the sail.  Probably none of this is news to any of you. 

Cheers,

Gail Marshall

Nepeta 30 C

Mount Desert, ME

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hi Gail -

Yup, that is exactly correct. However, if you really wish to reduce some friction, simply pick 3 eye straps and tie a small block to them and run that line only through these blocks (as opposed to all of those eye straps. It'll help a lot.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Gail]

Thanks Ernie,

Are you using 3 blocks on a wishbone for a 22? Do you think you'd up that for a 30? Also, regarding your photo, it's hard to judge from just one perspective. Do you notice any chafing by the blocks on the sail from time to time? 

Gail 

[Bob Gehrman]

My topping lift runs through the eyes on the boom and I have no issues with the friction. Other than loosening it once the sail is up and tightening it before dropping the sail, I hardly use the topping lift. I could see creating some twist in the sail if desired, but I'm not racing either. I think the sail has plenty of twist in it already.

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

The amount of friction you get from running the topping lift through eyes on the boom depends on how thick the line is, and whether there's anything else running through, or tied off on, those eyes.   My current boat came with oversize lines for the jacklines, for example, and there was an amazing amount of friction that they produced for lines running through the same eyes.  That went way down when I redid the jacklines with smaller diameter rope.

Some boats have split eyes, with a small bar dividing the middle to keep two lines separate.  Some have eyes with two rings.  Either reduces friction over ones which have single eyes shared by two lines.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[newelljc9]

I converted my topping lift from below the port boom to in the boom with no regrets. It reduced friction and windage while removing a haven for spiders. It worked so well I put the first outboard reefing pennant through the starboard boom the following year.

For my old age with the standing gaff rig, I use a single slab reefing pennant which is simple and easy to use.

John Newell

Mascouche NS #1

Toronto

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Gail -

I am only using two little blocks. Meaning - aft end of boom, thru to two little blocks and then to the front double block and straight down. I also worried about chafing the sail when I went to this setup but the blocks don't even touch the sail.

I do know that John Newell's "in the boom" system does work quite well. I am sure that he engineered the whole project nicely. Truth is, there is nothing to jam, kink or get in the way of this line as it sits inside the boom.

i cannot speak to the question of "how many little blocks would suffice" on an NS30 (or anything bigger than an NS22).

Good luck with this.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Brian @ SV Serenity]

I suspect you could use low-friction rings, either secured like the blocks Ernie describes, or perhaps captured by the eye straps, as a way to minimize the friction along the wishbone.  I'd still stick to blocks at the mast, though, as I think the angle the line would travel through would be too great to make the low-friction rings particularly effective.

Brian

SV Serenity

Nonsuch Nereus #003

Pax River, MD