NS26C Salon table to bed modification?

[Bath Water]

Hi,

Looking for advice and precedent.

The 26C has a sort of pull out twin bed function in the forward cabin.....but it's small.

Has anyone done a conversion where the folding table is re-imagined into a drop down bridge between the two opposing beds?

We'd like to create a large bed environment at night while preserving the functionality of the table during the day.

Yes, we want our cake and eat it too....

Yes, I know...the 26U accomplishes this in a different way, but we are enjoying the space of the 26C for entertaining 4 people.

I'm sure this forum will have someone who's wrestled with this...

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Just this side of Purrfection"

[Greg Silver]

Hello Mike and Ashley

Some years ago I did convert the table on our 26C to drop down so that we have a huge double bed in the salon. I do not have pics with me (we are sailing on a different kind of catboat now a few thousand miles south of home port). The legs on the table were sawn and hinged to kneel like a camel, which means  that when dropped, the table goes forward by a distance equal to the lower half of the legs. The place to cut the legs took into account how wide the table leaves are, so that they can remain dropped, which puts the top of the table a tad higher than the settees. A thin plywood bridge spans and hooks over the fiddles on the settees, and the new infill cushions are about an inch thinner than those on the settees to create a flush mattress. 

The table requires 'spines' to keep it solid when erected. A teak stick is inserted vertically on the centreline of each leg on the outer face, trapped with thru-bolts and butterfly nuts above and below the hinge joint. These prevent the hinges from folding and make it very strong when erected.

Both stbd and port settees already had swing out extensions which meet at the dropped table, and our boat came with infill cushions for the port settee. We made a template for the new foam cushions needed to complete the full mattress and had them cut to shape at a foam specialty shop (Comfort Foam in Dartmouth, NS).

Having the huge berth is a great amenity for Dawn and me, but there is some hassle in erecting and dismantling, and the parts and cushions take some storage space (most of the forward stbd locker in our case).

If I were to do it again I would do it differently, as I did more recently on our Niagara 35. In this boat I set it up so that the table leaves remain open (I made new table leaves to fit the gap between the settees). I attached a 1 x 1 hardwood cleat to the inboard face of each settee, and the leaves are supported by that when the table legs hinge down. As the table goes forward from its original position, a separate piece of plywood drops onto the aft portion of the cleats. All the horizontal surfaces match the settee tops, all the foam is the same thickness. This bed is absolutely huge. Fortunately this boat also has a warehouse/workshop cabin instead of a vee-berth so storage of the parts is no problem.

Sorry I don't have pics with me to illustrate, but I hope this wordy description makes sense.

From Punta Gorda for a winter respite aboard Cat Breton,

Greg and Dawn Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St. Peter's, Cape Breton

[Joe Weinbrecht]

My 26C has the kneeling table which allows the full bert setup.  I can take pics and measurements if you decide to try that method.

Joe

NS26C #156 1985

SEA HORSE

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[Brian F]

I am currently doing something similar on my 30C.  I have removed the factory table and am installing a 3 stage gas assist pedestal that drops to below berth height (actually drops to 12 1/2") but goes as high as 28". I am making a new tabletop with leaves to replace the existing table. The existing tabletop won't work because it has storage drawers in it.  I could reuse the leaves, but they arborite and I'd rather have solid wood.  

I have cut one (rhomboidal-shaped) piece of 5/8" plywood that will rest on the lower wooden ledge of the berth which will support the cushions. When not being used, this plywood fits under the cushions of my starboard quarter berth.  When I need the extra berth, I will simply drop the tabletop to a level where it supports the plywood insert and use the back cushions from the salon to created the third berth.  In the 30C this essentially becomes a king-sized bed.  

For pictures and details check out my post in then Nonsuch Facebook group.  

Brian Fulton

Brianb...@gmail.com 

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

My 26U has a kneeling table which I have not yet tried to use.  One lesson from it, though, is to think about the right height.  The one on my boat is 22" high.  All ergonomics books will tell you that a table should be between 27-30".

Two additional alternatives from historical records:

One is a take-apart design for the folding leaves by Tony Clark that I believe was published in a '92 Update (I found it while going through a pile of Updates that Phil LeVine had on his boat).  This is what was on my previous boat, a 26C.  By choosing the right height to cut off the legs, and sizing the two folding leaves appropriately, you could adapt this design to give you a drop-down.

The other can be found on the Nonsuch.org website under the "Members" tab.  Select "Members Tips and Projects" and from there download "N30C Stowable Table".  This was done by Alan Stummer in October 2020.  Measurements would have to be adapted for an N26.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U, #233

[Frederic Mulligan]

I need to replace the diesel deck fill cap on my 1985 26C. Any help with resources, size, thread would be much appreciated
Thanks

Fred Mulligan
Pangur Ban
Pocasset, MA

Sent from my iPhone

>

[Joe Weinbrecht]

If I remember correctly, while the holes are the same diameter there are different threads on the caps for the waste, water, and fuel fills. 

I discovered that while replacing the neoprene gaskets.

Joe

Ns26c# 156

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[Thor Powell]

You may have to replace the whole fitting because through about 1982 or 83, the standard thread size was 16 tpi (threads per inch) and diameter of the threaded opening of a 1.5" deck fill was 1.25". Today the standard diameter for the threaded opening in a 1.5" deck fill is still 1.25", but the threads are 11 tpi....f All NPTP.

You can get a tread measuring tool  for a few bucks ....

[Don Crossley]

Hi,

Last year I was asking a similar question. I was looking for a spare cap to keep onboard in case one of my four caps fell overboard, but I never got any definitive answers from the INA group. I tried several different ones from local marine stores, but I never found one that was both the correct threaded diameter and/or thread count, and the head size that fit existing deck fitting. I finally found a black PVC(?) plumbing cap at Home Depot that will work temporarily in emergency when away from home port. I think when boats were built, the water/fuel/holding tank deck fittings came from a variety of suppliers, and there's no brand name stamped on them to help. And suppliers are no longer in business? If you really need a cap, likely you'll need to replace the whole unit, luckily to do this on a Nonsuch, access is much easier than many other boats. If you replace the whole unit, better buy a couple of spare caps at the same time.🙂

If you do find a cap that fits, please share brand and size details with the rest of us.

Attached are my photos that may help🙂, or not! 🙁

Cheers,

Don

Breezin' 1987 NS 30U #369

Vancouver, BC

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[Tim in STL, NS26 White O'morn]

Not to be picky, but shouldn't this discussion about fill caps be on its own thread.  When I need this info I will have a hard time finding it under "Salon Table ..."?  Is there a way to move this info?

Tim in STL

White O’morn NS26U #216

Harbor Point Yacht Club

West Alton, MO

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Tim - you got the jump on me. I, too, feel that this thread on deck fill caps should, indeed, be seperate. I was quite surprised to see it pop up in "salon tables".

I'll blame COVID for this .....   Then again, maybe there is some kind of mystical connection between kneeling salon tables and deck fill caps. One never knows.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Don Crossley]

Don't know what you mean? In my email the subject is "Re: NS26C Deck Fill Cap", nothing to do with salon table.

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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

How strange -

Attached is a screen grab showing what this looked like on my computer. It jumped from the kneeling table to the deck fill item.

Gotta be COVID.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

Mine is under deck fill caps also.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Fred,

That is a major topic shift for the thread. In the future it would be better to start a new thread for a new topic. It makes conducting future searches easier.

Mark Powers

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 3:58:22 PM UTC-8 fhmul...@gmail.com wrote:

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Some thoughts on the issue.

I have seen at least one 26C where there is a pull out extension on both the port and starboard sides. When they were both pulled out, they made one big berth. The standard 26C had a  drop down back on the port side that revealed a storage area to take the extra cushions for the extension berth. With two extension berths you will have to find a storage area to keep the extra cushions when the area is not being used as a berth.   The 26  with the two pull out berths did not have the cabin table installed. Folding tables were stored in the forward locker and brought out as needed. Most dining took place in the cockpit.

When we bought La Reina the cabin table had been removed by a previous own and was long gone. We bought two folding tables from Costco and store them in the forward locker by the mast. I pulled the legs off of one and made stretcher handles that allow the table to span the gap between the wheel and the back coaming. The other table can be used in the cockpit either as a dining table or as a lower coffee table.  The tables can be brought out for dock parties. The legs operate like the legs on an ironing board. It should be possible to make similar legs for a cabin table that would allow you have a table that lowers down to form the base of a double berth. Another option would be to make a single wide leg for each end of the table. The leg would be hinged at the attachment point on the table and approximately in the middle of the table. You would then have a pin to hold the leg straight for use as a table. Pull the pin to let the legs fold out of the way and so the table could drop down  to form the base of the bed. The table top could be shaped to fill the gap between the berths and would rest on cleats along the side of the settees.

 We have found the ease of moving about down below without the table is wonderful and easily outweighs any loss of convenience of having the table. We have drop down counters on the forward and aft side of the galley to provide extra prep surfaces. We have a drop down table in the cockpit. Pretty much all dining takes place in the cockpit. The table on the stretcher is added when we have more than two for meals. If we ever feel the need we can pull out the folding table from the forward locker and use it in the saloon.

One large berth in the forward cabin area would require crawling in and out of the berth. It is way easier to be able to swing our legs off the side of the settee berths. 

Mark Powers

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 11:58:55 AM UTC-8 Bath Water wrote:

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the inspiration.

My current table is too small for proper dining set ups for 4 adults, so lengthening the table is a plus.

Are you using 1 or 2 pedestals? (not cheap)

I think I'll try and do mine out of marine ply and stain for best match. (or maybe make it easier with IKEA solid wood counter tops.)

Does anyone have good experiences with a particular brand and colour of stain to match the holly wood?

I hope to create a centre trapezoidal table with 2 one foot drop leaves that would allow passage and table function when the table is up (they'd fold completely under so your knees wouldn't hit)

When the leaves are extended, they'd rest on trim of the side berths for support.

Big piano hinges for each of them.

Will send pics when finished.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Just this side of Purrfection"

[Frederic Mulligan]

[Cedric Guthrie]

Try Binnacle Halifax they have US site as well a Canadian

Cedric Single Malt 26C #207
Chester Nova Scotia

-----Original Message-----
From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Frederic Mulligan
Sent: January 20, 2022 10:53 AM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: NS26C Deck Fill Cap

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[Frederic Mulligan]

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 11:06 AM, Cedric Guthrie <acco...@mpcg.ca> wrote:
>
> Try Binnacle Halifax they have US site as well a Canadian

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/001c01d80e17%24acc1ac40%24064504c0%24%40mpcg.ca.

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

I can't help you with the table there. We removed the table as soon as we got the boat, it was just always in the way.  Our main eating and entertaining area is in the cockpit under the full enclosure. It can seat 8 up there and there is a cockpit table which swings up from the pedestal for 4 friendly people. 

I agree with Greg though. The beds were always a problem. The cabin looked nice when the beds were slid in and the space was opened up but that meant the cushions had to be in two parts and I always hated sleeping on the lengthwise crack between these cushions. Now we have two twin foam mattresses from Ikea (each with one corner cut off, they are exactly the right length). Very nice to sleep on. There is a 8" gap between to shuffle forward. No table inside - there is a flat screen TV forward. We could change it back but the old cushions and table are never on the boat.

Tom 

26C #28

Penetang

[Bath Water]

Some progress.....(mid term report)

Based on Brian B's approach on the 30 (and then went off on a tangent), I purchased a slab of finger jointed teak from Home Depot 39"x74"x1.5"...and cut it up based on the plan view below.

It features that fancy gas shocked telescoping pedestal that allows for a surface height of 14-30".

Ashley though up "ottoman mode" where you are watching TV, but want to put your feet up and still get through to the bow.

"dining table mode" is where you can truly get 4 adult place settings for dinner with a little room left over to put the "turkey" down at the service end.. The original table fit 3 at best.

"day table mode" is the default setting 90% of the time. 8" of leg passage to the bow on each side. We opted for a larger table in this mode so you could do a lunch buffet with plates (as opposed to the 4" wide table it replaced).

"full bed mode" converts the whole salon into a King+ size bed.

It utilizes a headboard and footboard, (cut from the same teak slab), along with the dropped table to create a bridge between the two salon benches. The headboard and footboard stow in the cabinet behind the port bench cushion.

It's all still drinking teak oil like a drunken sailor, but when viewed with a fresh coat, it's decadent.

So, there's still the finishing, the removal of the old table, the creation of the memory-foam cushion to span the gap, and the install of the new table with supports beneath the sole.

Will provide the final report in the spring...

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Waiting for our swim platform"

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

This is absolutely stunning. Gorgeous work. I didn't know the Depot sold teak !!

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Maggi Cowlan]

Because that dining room/bed combo is not the best, we're looking at a small table/workspace where the stove,/oven is that would swing around (like a kids school chair) to both serve as an additional kitchen prep table and as a workspace when sitting on the berth across.  Anyone done anything similar or have ideas on adding that kind of space?

Maggi

Alia2 30U

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[Bath Water]

Thanks Ernie,

I suppose this sort of idea would scale to the 22 and the 30C as well.

In the end, it's just about inspiring the next innovation. These hull shapes have such potential.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Just this side of Purrfection"

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Nice work Mike. 

I was going to send a picture of my cabin table but realized that since I don't have one, the picture would not provide much info.

Mark Powers

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Mike,

Pics look beautiful. 

I'm curious about two elements of your solution I couldn't figure out from them.  Where do you stow the head and foot boards as you go down from full bed mode to dining table?  And what do you do with the filler cushions when not in use?

Thanks,

-- Bob

   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Jim K]

If this has already been discussed then I apologize but if you want to have a full sized berth on the N26C plus a dining table take a look at the arrangement on the N22 as the fwd layout of the N26C is similar to the N22. I owned 'Cheers' N22 #16 from 1985 - 1989. It was arranged so that the both settees (port and starboard) could be pulled out and meet in the middle.  Each settee had a plywood base on which the cushions would sit and were held in place by a finished teak lip which kept the cushions in place while sailing. Each plywood settee base had a slotted hole (located about midway lengthwise) running athwart ship through which it was loosely bolted to the horizontal fiberglass support on which it rested. At the aft end it had a small 1/8" hole through it by which you would pin the plywood in place so that it wouldn't slide out when sailing. These 'L' shaped pins were hidden under the seat cushions. There were also a set of finished teak 'U" shaped brackets mounted to the vertical fiberglass structural surface comprising the settees.  These teak brackets were located at the aft end of each settee and placed as mirror images of one another. They were mounted a few inches below the plywood settee base at a height which the teak lip on the end of the settee base would slide once the support beam was in place. 

If you wanted to convert the settees into a berth you would take the teak support beam (1" x 3" quarter-rounded on both top and bottom) and place each end in the teak support 'U' brackets so that it would span the space between the settees. You would then remove the pins which locked the plywood settee bottoms in place and pull out the starboard and port settees until the opposing surfaces of the teak lips touched one another.  You would slide the seat cushions together and fill in the outer space on each side of the seat cushions with wedged shaped cushions which were made to fit that shaped space.  The wedged shaped cushions were stowed between the top of the seat cushions and the underside of the outboard shelf located behind each settee and onto which the settee back rest cushions were mounted.  The berth made a king size bed on the N22. I can report that my wife and I would spend 2 weeks in the San Juan Islands every year and slept comfortably.  In the morning we would break down the berth and return it to the settee layout. 

The dining table approximately 18" x 48" (I'm doing this from memory) had a set of chromed (male) brackets attached to the underside of the table on one end and a teak leg hinged to the underside of the table at the other end. It was stowed vertically against the inside bulkhead in the head next to the toilet. There was a piece of teak lagged to the floor which you would position between the brackets on the table and there was another teak support on the bulkhead by which you'd secure the other end of the table in place against the bulkhead.  In the saloon there is an access door to the mast on which two chromed (female) brackets were mounted. These brackets mated to the two chromed (male) brackets mounted to the underside of the table. To set the table up you would position the two (male) brackets on the table over the corresponding female brackets on the door and gently push them in place.  Then you would then lower the hinged teak leg at the other end of the table and secure it to the floor via a chromed thumb screw like the one used to secure the companion way steps in place on our boats. Since the N22 had a tiller there were also a corresponding set of the female brackets in the aft end of the cockpit coming located one to each side of the builders plate to which you could secure the table and use it as a dining table in the cockpit once you moved the tiller out of the way.

I am including some photos but I don't have any photos of the table set up inside the cabin or photos of the settees converted into a berth. I am sure that current owners of N22's could provide you those and more detailed photos overall.  If you did this on a N26C the berth would be large enough so that Mom, Dad and 2 small kids could sleep together comfortably. Or you could use that support spanning the settees and just pull out one side and a couple could sleep comfortably snuggled up together. 

My photos are old but on the one showing the head if you look just inside the open door to the head you will see a white vertical piece running parallel to the teak door frame which is actually the edge of the table stowed against that bulkhead.  I'm providing this as to an alternative to what's been discussed and if it's already been discussed then please forgive me and ignore my input. 

Cheers!

Jim K

formerly 'Cheers" N22 #16 Seattle WA

Currently 'Toyger' N30U #422 Port Ludlow WA

[Bath Water]

Hi Bob,

The headboard and footboard sections stow in the long cubby hole that's revealed behind the port vertical bench cushion.(in the 26C)

The trapezoidal mattress cushion will get layered on top of the starboard quarter sleeper cushions (until we get a better idea.....which maybe rolling it up and shoving it in a compression sack...

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

"Waiting for our swim platform"

[Bath Water]

Promised spring update:

Nauti Girl got Game Y'all.

Table installed and we've already discovered "coffee table" mode is the new default.

In order:

Coffee table mode

Lunch for 2 Mode:

Dinner for 4 mode:

King+ bed mode:

Just need to sew a trapezoidal cover for the memory foam topper.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Ever nice !!

Beautiful job, guys. Enjoy it.

Ernie A. in Toronto

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 2:20:59 AM UTC-5 Bath Water wrote:

[Bath Water]

Thank you Ernie,

It's not lost on us that you are truly an internationally accomplished guru of executing on an "experience" and logistics.

The world is a better place for your "doing what you do".

Thank you!

For those not familiar....there is a performance genius amongst us...who in stealth mode...loves his Nonsuch too.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Huh ???   What ??   Who ...  ME ????

Shucks, you two. OK - like many (maybe most) "mature" Nonsuchers, I, too, was lucky enough to fall into a lifelong career that never, ever gave me the feeling that I was going "to work". Like a lot of you, I experienced a pretty interesting (and crazy) job. My greatest joy came with working beside the most amazing people, from all over the planet (and, sometimes, beyond ... ). 

But, that's no big deal because our INA ranks include folks who have been responsible for the creation, development and nurturing of absolutely remarkable ideas, things, philosophies, etc. Boatbuilders, mechanical geniuses, brilliant healers, lawyers and lawmakers, mothers, fathers, craftspeople, political leaders and faith leaders, whatever. As you draw on the individual and combined strengths of our members, you come up with gorgeous and zany table/bed frame combos and heaven knows what else.

Then again, this shouldn't surprise any of us. I guess that we are all as "special" as the boats that we sail.

Thank you, Mike and Ashley, for those very kind words. Stay healthy and have a fine summer.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto