Deck soft spots

[rob.le...@gmail.com]

Hello,

I have recently been looking at a Nonsuch 30 for sale in excellent condition EXCEPT that the surveyor has by tapping found several areas of soft core around the pulpit and stanchion bases above and below decks. Is this something serious enough that I should walk away from potentially buying the boat or can it be addressed by lifting the bases and resealing? There is also a deck/cabin leak on the starboard side at the bulkhead aft of the settee. 

I'd certainly appreciate thoughts on both these issues.

Thanks!

Rob

[paul gillis]

Rob

Due to the age of our boats some soft spots near pulpits, mainsheet deck block and other areas are to be expected. I had the same leak at the bulkhead which was easily fixed by rebedding the chain plate. I would walk the decks and exert pressure to see if the decks “give”. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Paul Gillis
1983 N30
Sodus,NY

[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

Tapping the deck is kinda old school, there are infrared detectors that do a better job.  The pulpit can sometimes be addressed from below saving deck refinishing. 

[James Denmark]

Only your surveyor or a repair shop can say for sure if the repairs are feasible - my guess would be yes and the main area of concern would be around the mast-step where the most forces are at work. Stanchions and pulpits can usually be removed and re-bedded without having to remove massive amounts of core around the screw holes. I would get an estimate for repairs and factor that into your negotation/decision.

With regard to the leak at the bulkhead - there are probably light fixtures on that bulkhead on both sides and it seems quite common that if it isn't the deck plate for the head bulkhead that is leaking it will be a port, hatch or line organizer on the cabin top that is leaking and the resulting water travels between the cabin top and the liner until it reaches the wire to the main cabin light then along the surface of that wire to those light fixtures where it exits into the boat. Never assume that the water is coming in at the same place its coming out.

Jim

C.A.T. 1982 N30C #146

Currently lying La Paz, BCS MX

[Jorgen Moller]

Take a slow walk along the stanchions. If they flex towards you, you have a problem you should worry about. On Pondus I had to remove the starboard outer skin for about five feet. And on the port side about four feet. With the right tools the process is not onerous. I replaced the balsa core with a high density foam. I kept the skin under the stanchions and replaced the core with a solid glass laminate.

After determining the extend of the wet core using hammer and moisture meter, it took me less than a day to remove the skin and core. Before doing anything else the work areas must be bone dry for the repair to bond to the inner skin and borders. The biggest job is to make the repair blend with the surrounding areas. 

Jorgen Moller

Pondus NS26 #33

RCYC, Toronto

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[Tom Schoenhofer, North Star, 26C, Penetang]

Jorgen

Do you have any photos of this operation? 

I am guessing you replaced the original outer skin after replacing the core and the blending in was only the saw cut in this outer skin. This may not be very strong.

Or did you put new glass inside this part of the deck along with the foam?

Is a mould for new nonskid gelcoat available that matches the non skid deck that Hinterhoeller used? The mould makers originally used sheets of this stuff back when the deck mould was made.

I can see how blending would be the biggest part of this job.

Tom

26C #28 North Star

Penetang

On Monday, 1 April 2019 16:44:43 UTC-4, Jorgen Moller wrote:

Take a slow walk along the stanchions. If they flex towards you, you have a problem you should worry about. On Pondus I had to remove the starboard outer skin for about five feet. And on the port side about four feet. With the right tools the process is not onerous. I replaced the balsa core with a high density foam. I kept the skin under the stanchions and replaced the core with a solid glass laminate.

After determining the extend of the wet core using hammer and moisture meter, it took me less than a day to remove the skin and core. Before doing anything else the work areas must be bone dry for the repair to bond to the inner skin and borders. The biggest job is to make the repair blend with the surrounding areas. 

Jorgen Moller

Pondus NS26 #33

RCYC, Toronto

[Jorgen Moller]

Hi Tom,

I didn't take pictures, but the process is well documented if you search google.

The important part when cutting is to cut straight lines and leave space for two inch bevels along all edges. If that leaves wet core under the edges clean it out with a multi-tool. If you reuse the cut out laminate you need to grind a two inch bevel which together with the bevel on the deck edge is used to build a strong laminated seam leveled with the deck. The cutouts are first glued to the new core and either weighed down or pressed down using vacuum technique. I found it easier to rebuild the whole cutout with new laminate. It is a messy job, and you need to have everything ready for the job. Resin has a nasty tendency to harden/burn if you have to leave it even for a short time. Redoing the non-skid is a compromise. I have not found any mold which would match the  original. The closes is using a foam roller just before the gelcoat sets. Still working on it. I may repaint the deck with KiwiGrip. If you want to go with gelcoat,make sure you keep a polished sample of the cutout to get the right tint from the supplier. 

When you cut the laminate make sure you don't damage the bottom laminate, It is very thin!!

Jorgen Moller

Pondus NS26 #33

RCYC Toronto

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[Tom Schoenhofer, North Star, 26C, Penetang]

Thanks Jorgen

This answers my question, and yes it sounds like a difficult messy job especially at the narrow side decks. 

So far I have not had to resort to this method, I'v managed to fix the little rot through a hole under the stanchion base so the base covers the new filled hole. But I have a area just aft of the mast that may need a look.

Tom

[Jorgen Moller]

When I get a chance, I will check the area you are concerned about on Pondus. I thought it was solid between the mast and the bulkhead.

Jorgen Moller

Pondus NS26 #33

RCYC Toronto

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[Tim in STL]

I don't have any documentation on this but when I had the cabin top repaired on our previous boat the gentleman used some kind of liquid rubber compound to make a mold of the Nonskid.  He oversized the mold so that it would self index on the adjoining area.  When he put the last layer of epoxy on he pressed the mold into it and created a seamless match in the nonskid.  We had to paint afterwards, but I wonder if he could have used Gelcoat for that final coating?? 

Tim in STL

White O'morn NS26U #216

Harbor Point Yacht Club

West Alton, MO

[Jorgen Moller]

You can't use gelcoat on top of epoxy. He could have laminated the new core to the bottom laminate with epoxy, but should have used polyester resin for the top with a final coat of gelcoat imprinted with the mold after having faired the top. If you contact Composite Canada, or Plastic World, they may have the material for making the mold. My repairs were too large to use this technique.

Jorgen Moller

Pondus NS26 #33

RCYC Toronto

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[Tom Schoenhofer, North Star, 26C, Penetang]

I hope it's solid as well.

I could not get the mast collar out a few years ago when I tried last time. It was glued in with 5200 I believe. But at the bolts it looked like glass only and no core. 

However from the inside there looks to be a step in the deck where the deck gets thicker just aft of the mast suggesting a core. There are bolts in this area and there may be a leak.

I dont know if I am lucky or if the guy who installed the deck fittings at Hinterhoeller was careful that day but many of the deck fittings seem not to have leaked. The ones that did it was always obvoius that the leak was around a bolt that was not 100% surrounded with bedding. I got some help from the original surveyor who pointed out some deck spots that were wet. Since then I look at the deck very carefully in the spring and where there is a crack in the gelcoat I take off that fitting and try to clean out the core, and so far it has been wet at the cracks. I guess it's frost that cracks the deck gelcoat?

  

The rubber mold is a good idea. I'll give that a try on a small area since I have some gelcoat work to do this year.

Tom

26C #28 North Star

Penetang

[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

I believe the bump you see is plywood.  In the front area bounded by the anchor locker you could repair wet core from below around any stanchions.  I managed to remove the collar by undoing all the bolts, using a paint scraper under the collar, then a composite wood door wedge to lift the collar.  I went very slowly 1/16 at a time and let it sit for a bit... it came off with little effort.