Raymarine ST1000 install for N22OB

[Brooks]

To: tiller steered N22 sailors

Two single handed sails in my "new" boat made it obvious an AP is a necessity for safe and comfortable single handing. Planning on an ST1000 - good for up to 6600 lb boat.

I assume others have installed one and would appreciate a picture or good description so I have an idea of how to mount it before I start drilling holes. 

Thanks in advance

Brooks Bridges

NS22OB #24 An B'ad

Cambridge, MD

[Butch Garren]

Hi Brooks,

 

When I had my NS 22, I installed an ST1000 and was delighted with it.  The attached picture shows the mounting for two bulkhead ST1000 brackets.  You will see them on starboard side.  One is black and one is silver.  The black one came with the system while good friend, Ed Bahniuk (NS30 # 503, Manatee) made, for me, the silver one.  The picture does not show the tiller equipped with the pins as I just built the tiller shown along with the floor boards and bottle holder contraption.   The black one was mounted in error as it does not leave a lot of working distance for the ST1000 arm.  Rather than remove it, leaving holes, Ed made me the silver one along with a tiller pin.   This allowed the ST1000 arm to be more effective as it did not have far to go to do its job.  The ST1000 works great but I did not use it in heavy weather.  As well, I typically used it to make coffee, do a small chore, or take care of personal business.  Never used it for long periods of time.  I was concerned about battery use, but never tested it for long periods.   For my purpose it worked great.  Until one gets used to it being there it can be a PITA and a nuisance to set up and put away.  But, I was glad I bought it and installed it.   As you know, super guy Joe Hasuly bought Whiskers, My NS22, and I know he would be willing to take pics and provide measurements.  Give him a holler.  If you need contact info, just yell at me and I’ll take care of it.

 

As a side note, make sure to mount the bulkhead bracket at the horizontal level your tiller (pin) rests when dropped.  I am terrible at describing things but when everything is connected properly and in resting position, you will want the ST1000 computer to be horizontal and 90 degrees to the tiller pin.

 

Have a wonderful day.

 

Butch

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196

Whiskers II

Solomons, MD

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[ernest...@gmail.com]

Hi Brooks -

Further to this, I actually bought the ST2000 because I think/thought that the inner workings were somewhat sturdier than those of the ST1000 and there was only a difference of around $100.00 in Defender's price for a unit that was decidedly more powerful. 

Interestingly, my 5000 lb. Nonsuch 22 weighs in at 6000 lb. on our crane's reliable digital scale. and, since everything that can break, WILL break, I went for a way stronger unit. and, I'm glad I did because in these nice winds that have just come up on Lake Ontario, the AP handles them with it's eyes closed.

If there isn't a big price difference, for a piece of gear that you will REALLY rely on (in order to enjoy your boat a lot more), go for the bigger unit.

cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

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[Brooks Bridges]

6000? Guess shouldn't be too surprised - that's what they mean by "laden"  - anchors, life jackets, water, holding tank, etc., on board 

Yep, AP's are a virtual necessity. Had an ST1000 on my 27' trimaran and loved it. Had a wheel pilot on my NS30 and had just installed an ST1000 on the Rhodes 22 when I decided to sell it.

I thought about what you said about larger size. For reasons below, I decided to stay with ST 1000. Your lake is more like being on ocean so don't blame you for being a bit more cautious.

I'm negotiating for a used 2014 ST 1000 and will probably go with it. 

I've not experienced really high steering forces, even on my 30 - and I once sailed in a gale (2nd reef) down Chesapeake Bay - broad reach and one wild, fun ride. 

I did have an ancient AP on the 30 and it got over powered once or twice - but found wind had shifted and I needed to let sheet out a bit. But tiller force wasn't that high even then, just a definitely weak AP. 

I think reason for low tiller forces is the Nonsuch rudder is the kind with shaft going through the rudder partway back rather than at leading edge. Means the part in front actually tries to turn tiller more in the direction it's already going - like power steering. 

I think if I always reef to keep heel no higher than 15 deg I'll be fine. 

Another way of thinking about it: If AP gets over powered, it's probably time for me to be steering or taking corrective action anyway.

NOW, if I were crossing oceans and needed to sleep for 4 hours while it steered, I'd go with the larger size in a heart beat. 

Brooks 

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[Brooks Bridges]

Thanks very much Butch,

Your picture was definitely worth a thousand words. 

It confirms for me the cantilever mount I already have (expensive mistake) will now be used. It shows the approximate height for mount (silver) which makes sense and means you probably just epoxied the pin into a drilled hole in top of the rudder. Not wild about pin always sticking up but not likely a problem. 

I will probably do what I did last time and put electrical plug very close to the cantilever mount and bundle excess cable under tiller pilot and cable tie it in place.

I have to mount on stbd side also but means must run wiring across cockpit (under) to get to CB panel. Guess not that long a run. What did you use to hold cable securely?

Beyond that I like the drink holder idea - classy.

Also have been pondering a jam cleat for main sheet to replace the horn cleat and pic confirms that its a good idea.

Brooks 

[Brooks Bridges]

Hi Ernie,

Realized I forgot to ask: Does your installation seem basically same as Butch's? It seems to be most logical but before I drill holes I like to be sure. I can measure 15 times and still screw up. And Raymarine provide so many options for install

Cheers,

Brooks

[Roger Mongeau]

Hi Brooks,

I completely agree with Butch and Ernie.  Here is another installation.  It works fine but the angle of turn is limited.

Cheers,

Roger Mongeau

NS 22 # 27,   27 Celcius

Magog  Canada

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[Butch Garren]

Brooks,

 

I never found the pin to be an issue.  The forward one was until I “got some learnin” and relocated it to the after part of the tiller.  Also, if you use the bulkhead mount method be sure to consider the thickness of your cockpit cushions.  That was almost a near miss for me.   The picture shows the electrical connection closer to the previously used mount.  I chose not to relocate it as there was plenty of wire.

 

Since there was already wiring in the area (I equipped the boat with LED lighting including under the cockpit and motor well and as well dedicated a battery for the motor only) I was able to lace the AP wiring to it.  Behind the breakers, there was a crowding of wires especially on the ground side that I installed a ground buss bar to provide more, simplified connection spots.  That’s where I took the AP wiring and gave it a breaker connection.

 

I’m glad you like the drink holder area.  I used the port side to hold a sandwich or a cell phone. You cannot tell in the picture but it was designed to match the tiller and floorboards which are made of black walnut with curly maple accents.  Keeps me off the streets type projects.

 

Take care!

 

Butch

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[Butch Garren]

Hi again,

 

Regarding the jam cleat, I used it all of the time.  Very seldom did I use the winch.   Since I did not race the boat and sailed alone half the time, I simply luffed the boat up to adjust the sail and slapped the main sheet on the jam cleat.  Although I don’t race, I still wanted the sail to be set well, so I was constantly adjusting, using this method.  Might get some debate on this approach but it worked well for me.   I recommend the jam cleat and they are not very expensive, even at West Marine.  They tend to wear after a couple of years but can be sharpened or replaced.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Butch

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brooks Bridges
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 9:07 AM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

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[Fred Rachwitz]

Butch and others

I totally agree on the use of the jam-cleat. I use mine exactly as Butch described. There is not much need for the sheet winch in most adjustments. 

If you are buying one for this location however I recommend that you get one of the metal models. It will cost more but you only need one and I find that mine is definitely superior to the composite variety. I also can opt imagine it ever wearing out. I have a self tailing sheet winch and rarely even bother with the tailer; just head up, pull it in and jam it. I have horn cleat behind the jam cleat which in 9 seasons I do not think I have ever used; never had a need to mess with it. I should say that I do like the self tailer a lot for those times when I do need to crank, and it works very well. 

Fred Rachwitz
Concerto NS 30 U #445
Harbor Springs Michigan
Northern Lake Michigan

Sent from Fred's iPad Air 2

 

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[Brooks Bridges]

"be sure to consider the thickness of your cockpit cushions. " Ah, yes. Thanks.

Also have to clear the remote motor control mounted to tiller - 1" higher than top of tiller. 

Found a used ST1000 so will be installing soon - got some good tips from Ernie. I know you need to watch wire size for AP - depending on how long. With all the great portable LED's these days I think I'll skip wiring them up. I even have a little LED candle :-)

• Your wood work is beautiful. My tiller is a beautiful dark varnish. Done by Mike Quill when prev owner had a new tiller bracket fashioned by Mike to replace his broken one - think there's a picture in Mike's catalog. I may have to try a copy of your drink/sandwich holder. Great idea and out of the way. Now I have to find some nice wood - as if I didn't have enough to do(good winter project). Need to run topping lift back and down and onto cabin top, replace sheet cheek block on combing and one for 1st reef on boom, add blocks to clew reef cringles, etc.
  

But so great to be back in a Nonsuch. Love it.

​Cheers,​

Brooks 

[Brooks]

Metal. Thanks, wouldn't have thought of that. Yes, winch seldom used back in my NS30 days. Why work when boat luffs up so easily.

[Brooks]

Thanks Roger,

"It works fine but the angle of turn is limited."  I'm a little puzzled by this. Raymarine recommends 18" from rudder post and yesterday I measured and thought 18" was about where yours is, just before lazarette. Do you think a few inches aft would be better? It can put out 125 lbs push so I think it could handle a more aft position.

Does it reach limit when you ask for auto-tack? Or in high winds?  I noticed yesterday that I had a lot of tiller angle in a gust - not so much hard to control but more angle than I expected. Of course I have a blown out sail which won't properly flatten and had a good bit of heel also. I reefed and both problems went away. 

Cheers, Brooks

[Roger Mongeau]

Hi Brooks,

I did comply with Raymarine recommendation.  May be a few inches aft would be too hard on the ST1000 in the long term.  Auto-tack always reaches limit and it is slow in certain conditions.  It also reaches limit in high winds.  Reefing helps.

 

I confirm that it is very useful.

Cheers, Roger

[ernest...@gmail.com]

Hi Brooks et al -

My N22 O/B arrived with the mounting "hole" on the starboard bench, just aft of the lazarette cover, a pin already located on my very un-factory bizarre-looking tiller and a crappily installed power outlet... ALL for an old ST1000 (that did not come with the boat). I'd previously owned a Navico (now Simrad) TP22 on my old Carter 30 and loved it. But, since this boat was all tricked out for an Autohelm (or Raymarine) product, obviously, I went with that and it's been fine (once I got it adjusted, that is).

I did make a few changes. The AP is permanently connected down in the lazarette and only gets disconnected to go home with me when the boat is hauled. The electrical connection sits on a scrap piece of polycarbonate palstic that I had kicking around. The AP stores below in a little padded plywood box that I made and the wire sits in two groves that I ground out with my Dremel tool. I like this system as all of the electrical connections are out of the weather and the fussy plug with all of those little pins doesn't get connected and disconnected daily.

I've enclosed a few photos. PLEASE pardon the fact that poor MOUSTACHES could use a bit of a wash ....

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Brooks Bridges]

Thanks for confirmation Roger. 

(written yesterday but forgot to hit Send)

Brooks 

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[Brooks Bridges]

Very nice install Ernie. I do like the idea of not having to connect  the plug every time. I also found that connection a bit fussy. Yet another idea I wouldn't have thought of.

Your installation appears to be same distance from rudder post as Roger. Do you also find the push rod occasionally runs out of travel in higher winds? Can't see using auto-tack much unless it works very well and I'm really feeling lazy but would be nice to know it works. 

BTW: I am amazed at people who seem dumfounded at the ease of tacking a Nonsuch. They just don't seem to be able to handle the extreme simplicity. My cousin asked: "How do you tack this thing" (NS30 so just said, "Turn the wheel." ) A friend was sailing last week and  we needed to tack. He has sailed sloops for years but he kept straightening up the tiller before we finished. Seemed genuinely confused. We almost went into irons and that's nigh impossible on a Nonsuch. Amusing but puzzling.

Curious: What's the gizmo just to stbd of the outboard opening in stern? Ventilation? And what's the white gizmo underneath your tiller?

Brooks 

[ernest...@gmail.com]

The White Gizmo is a Beckson rectangular opening port that fills a hole in the floor where a Lewmar steering pedestal used to reside. i got rid of that, went back to the tiller and now have instant visual access to my battery, etc. The white thing that looks like a ventilation port is just that - a thoroughly needless ventilation port. We'll thank a previous owner.

The two black little thingies are the old AP connection point and a 12 volt outlet (also previous owner).

And, yup, I do run out of travel once in a while.

Gonna be sunny and windy tomorrow - can't wait.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Butch Garren]

Great job Ernie,

 

Pretty neat approach.

 

Butch

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196

Whiskers II

Solomons, MD

 

 

 

 

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ernest...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 1:29 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Raymarine ST1000 install for N22OB

 

Hi Brooks et al -

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[Allen Perrins]

Hi

I thought all autopilots were named  "OTTO" no Juanita  !!!

Al

[ernest...@gmail.com]

LONG story, Al ...

Ernie A. in Toronto

Al

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[Bill Wickett N22 #38 Makin' Time FPYC - Hamilton]

Hi Brooks,

Here is another option on storing your tiller pilot. We use 4" ABS pipe. Just long enough to let the pin hang over the end. A test cap on the end, with a piece of foam inside. With the push rod retracted, feed the plug end in first, then slide the unit in. There is enough clearance around the push rod end to accommodate the plug. We stow the unit in the pipe standing on end just aft of the holding tank. Was a perfect corner for it. 

Good luck with the install. The screw connections on the back of the socket are very small. Use an eyeglass screwdriver. 

Bill

[ernest...@gmail.com]

THIS is the idea that I saw on a guy's boat in our club that made me aware of storing the unit in some sort of container inside the lazarette. I ended up building a little box.

Great minds think alike, Bill Wickett !!

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Brooks Bridges]

Hi Bill,

Got busy with boat and other stuff and just saw your idea. I've done basic install but not storage. Thanks for the idea.

Cheers

Brooks

Brooks 

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[Bill Wickett N22 #38 Makin' Time FPYC - Hamilton]

I think we have all been busy with boat stuff. Ours is all put up and winterized now. I dropped the rudder out for some rework on the top end of the rudder post. 

Bill