Mast Failure
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Ed Taxwizz
Dec 3, 2010, 9:48:57 AM12/3/10
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Hi Everyone;
I have noticed several posts on mast replacement.
Does anyone have any idea how often Nonsuch masts fail?
Is anyone keeping statistics?
(Please don't make me nervous)
Cheers,
Ed Collis
ORION VII
30U
I have noticed several posts on mast replacement.
Does anyone have any idea how often Nonsuch masts fail?
Is anyone keeping statistics?
(Please don't make me nervous)
Cheers,
Ed Collis
ORION VII
30U
John Newell
Dec 3, 2010, 10:41:25 AM12/3/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
It depends on where and how it is kept and how it is used. Generally
speaking factors that shorten an aluminium mast's life include:
speaking factors that shorten an aluminium mast's life include:
1) Salt water sailing without regular wash downs and barriers maintained
between different metals will not last as long as those in fresh water.
2) Left in when the boat is hauled out for winter should shorten its life
along with the hull. Both need bracing to reduce stresses.
3) Skippers who do not bother to reef when conditions warrant will fatigue
the mast faster
4) Those who do not pay attention when running and make uncontrolled gybes.
It should relax you to know that my mast was built in 1981 and is still
going strong. It has a higher aspect ratio than the one on your 30.
Cheers,
John Newell
Mascouche 26C 1
Toronto
Ed Taxwizz
Dec 3, 2010, 11:12:11 AM12/3/10
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Thanks John;
That big, unsupported floppy mast, combined with all the mast failure
and replacement talk was starting to get to my paranoia.
Cheers,
Eddy
That big, unsupported floppy mast, combined with all the mast failure
and replacement talk was starting to get to my paranoia.
Cheers,
Eddy
Lionheart
Dec 3, 2010, 11:12:50 AM12/3/10
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
At first I was going to answer Ed's question by saying that they
usually only fail once. But more to the point I think it is fair to
say that most mast failures are due to human error. By that I mean
errors in design, assembly, modifications, maintenance and use.
Early Nonsuches had a lot of mast failures due to a poor design which
utilized holes in the mast at deck level to prevent rotation. Those
masts were replaced by the factory.
Most later failures seem to have been caused by stress cracks
emanating from holes placed in the mast at high-stress areas. Be
careful about placing holes in the mast for mounting equipment, adding
a 2nd halyard, etc.
Although there are no guarantees, if you have a newer mast that is
essentially unmodified from the way it was built and it has been
maintained reasonably well, chances are good that you will not have a
problem with it.
Bill Spencer - LIONHEART, NS30U 352 Hyde Park, NY
usually only fail once. But more to the point I think it is fair to
say that most mast failures are due to human error. By that I mean
errors in design, assembly, modifications, maintenance and use.
Early Nonsuches had a lot of mast failures due to a poor design which
utilized holes in the mast at deck level to prevent rotation. Those
masts were replaced by the factory.
Most later failures seem to have been caused by stress cracks
emanating from holes placed in the mast at high-stress areas. Be
careful about placing holes in the mast for mounting equipment, adding
a 2nd halyard, etc.
Although there are no guarantees, if you have a newer mast that is
essentially unmodified from the way it was built and it has been
maintained reasonably well, chances are good that you will not have a
problem with it.
Bill Spencer - LIONHEART, NS30U 352 Hyde Park, NY
Marion Gropen
Dec 3, 2010, 11:18:20 AM12/3/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
On Dec 3, 2010, at 11:12 AM, Ed Taxwizz wrote:
> Thanks John;
> That big, unsupported floppy mast, combined with all the mast failure
> and replacement talk was starting to get to my paranoia.
For whatever it may be worth, I think the common wisdom of pulling it
every year and inspecting it carefully is actually wise. (Not always
true about common wisdom!)
We like to look around every opening for anything that looks like a
crack or a burr. We check any fixtures or screws etc. for wear, or
loosening or other issues. We replace things that need replacing.
Meander's mast had a 28 foot sloop dropped on it one winter, about 1/3
of the way up from the bottom, when it was out of the boat on sawhorses.
One sawhorse was broken. The hull of the other boat didn't look all
that good either. But our mast didn't even have any micro-cracks. We
had a dye test done to be sure. (We did have to wash off some of the
smears of bottom paint.)
After I realized that the mast was THAT tough, I stopped worrying
quite as much.
Marion Gropen
Meander, NS36 #41, 1986
North Shore YC
Port Washington, NY
Ed Taxwizz
Dec 3, 2010, 1:57:23 PM12/3/10
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Hi Bill;
That reminds me of the time I asked the operator of a bungee jump ride
how often he replaced the bungees.
He replied "Every time they break."
> > > 30U- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
That reminds me of the time I asked the operator of a bungee jump ride
how often he replaced the bungees.
He replied "Every time they break."
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike
Dec 3, 2010, 5:02:37 PM12/3/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Ed:
I know of at least three people on other boats that have had mast failures and they were not Nonsuches. Actually, if you are going to have a mast failure a Nonsuch might be a better boat to be on as this recent tragic demasting incident near Bermuda shows.
At least on a Nonsuch you do not have all those stainless steel wire stays that could entangle you as happened here:
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
--- On Fri, 12/3/10, Ed Taxwizz <Goo...@taxwizz.com> wrote:
|
|
Joe Valinoti
Dec 3, 2010, 7:59:19 PM12/3/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Speaking about rigging, I might
have told this story before: Back about 6 years ago, while solo
sailing not 2 miles from my home on the Neuse River in Eastern NC, I suddenly
heard a noise on my right which turned out to be a 63 ft Searay up on plane
making at least 35 kts. Being on a port tack, I immediately put the
wheel down to try and get out of the way. While turning the wheel and for
a least 1 second, I thought of the power vs. sail rule.
His rubrail hit
the starboard side of my Cape Dory 30 right by the shrouds severing them.
Since I had just about completed the tack, the mast came down on the port
side into the water. Those masts are deck stepped which prevented
major damage to the rig itself. He ruptured two feet of the deck and an
equal amount of the hull.
Having some
knowledge of radio communications, I knew that my main radio's antenna was about
two feet under water. I called the Coast Guard on channel 16 with the
handheld - no joy. At that point the Searay came on the air and asked
if I was OK. I informed him that I didn't know and asked him to
notify the Coast Guard which he did.
After assessing
the situation, I called the local boatyard and told him of my plight which
included running and standing rigging in the water. It took the towboat
operator and myself at least an hour to secure the boat in a condition to
allow towing the 4 miles to the yard due to the rigging. It's interesting
to note that the Searay never altered course or slowed until after the
impact.
What doesn't kill
you makes you a better boater,
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
PS - The delivery crew said that one of the
licensed captains was below changing the CD and the other was looking at the
chart plotter
~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
Capt. Mike
Dec 4, 2010, 5:12:55 AM12/4/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Joe
Yep you got to keep careful eye on those power boats. I worry that they may be on cruise control and watching a DvD down below.
Yep you got to keep careful eye on those power boats. I worry that they may be on cruise control and watching a DvD down below.
Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com
From: "Joe Valinoti" <joes...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:59:19 -0500
ReplyTo: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mast Failure
John Newell
Dec 4, 2010, 7:16:02 AM12/4/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
I lost a deck mounted mast on a 26' Folksboat in
the 1960s. A starboard turnbuckle had parted while we were beating up Lake
Ontario. At the time my crew was preparing lunch. As soon as I saw
it starting to go I bore away and everything fell quitely into the drink.
So quietly that the crew came up to see why the motion had changed and it took
him a second or two to realise the mast was gone. Even with the simple rig
of a Folksboat it took us ages to clear the rigging and secure the mast and
sails. We made a jury rig using the boom and jib which got us back to
port. After that experience I would never go to sea in a stayed boat
without substantial wire cutters. Having an unsecured mast tethered to the
boat would be a major hazard in any sea.
One of the last things one should do is to luff up,
if the mast is starting to go, even though it is probably one's first
reaction. I learned this from a photo in my father's album of the 1920's
racing in Burnham-on-Crouch. I asked him how a handsom large yawl (60'+)
had demasted. The yawl had a substantial sheer and the mast lay along the
deck. I was told that during a race with the owner's only son at the wheel
the mast broke and the son brought the yawl head to wind. The mast landed
on deck killing the son instantly. The only good news was that the large
crew were saved by the sheer of the boat whch gave them clearance between the
deck and the mast. If the mast must go, let it go over the side and be
thankful you are sailing a Nonsuch. There won't be so much mess to clear
up.
Mascouche
Joe Valinoti
Dec 4, 2010, 8:45:47 AM12/4/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
As an "aside", I put that boat back
together and sold it to a close friend. It currently lives in Sandy Hook
Bay, NJ. and we're still friends!
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
John Newell
Dec 4, 2010, 9:08:00 AM12/4/10
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
My "aside", I was sailing the Folksboat to
Oshawa for a friend. We sailed her in to Port Hope under jury rig.
Tied her bow on to the quay and were just ready to try to haul the mast up when
three gentlemen in suits walked by inspecting the harbour. Before
they knew what happened we had them holding the top end of the mast up on the
quay which was just sufficent to pull the mast into position with the back
stay. We thanked them and contined on our way to Oshawa however this time
the sun had given way to fog but we still had the head wind. We had to
rely dead reckoning in those days. We made it back. The mast
stayed up for the season and the owner remained a friend.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C 1
Toronto
Ed Taxwizz
Dec 4, 2010, 11:15:28 AM12/4/10
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
That's why you need a deck gun.....at least .50 cal...For the ones who
try to get away.
On Dec 3, 7:59 pm, "Joe Valinoti" <joesa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking about rigging, I might have told this story before: Back about 6 years ago, while solo sailing not 2 miles from my home on the Neuse River in Eastern NC, I suddenly heard a noise on my right which turned out to be a 63 ft Searay up on plane making at least 35 kts. Being on a port tack, I immediately put the wheel down to try and get out of the way. While turning the wheel and for a least 1 second, I thought of the power vs. sail rule.
> His rubrail hit the starboard side of my Cape Dory 30 right by the shrouds severing them. Since I had just about completed the tack, the mast came down on the port side into the water. Those masts are deck stepped which prevented major damage to the rig itself. He ruptured two feet of the deck and an equal amount of the hull.
> Having some knowledge of radio communications, I knew that my main radio's antenna was about two feet under water. I called the Coast Guard on channel 16 with the handheld - no joy. At that point the Searay came on the air and asked if I was OK. I informed him that I didn't know and asked him to notify the Coast Guard which he did.
> After assessing the situation, I called the local boatyard and told him of my plight which included running and standing rigging in the water. It took the towboat operator and myself at least an hour to secure the boat in a condition to allow towing the 4 miles to the yard due to the rigging. It's interesting to note that the Searay never altered course or slowed until after the impact.
> What doesn't kill you makes you a better boater,
> Joe Valinoti
> S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
> Sea Harbour Yacht Club
> Oriental, NC
> PS - The delivery crew said that one of the licensed captains was below changing the CD and the other was looking at the chart plotter
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike
> To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Mast Failure
>
> Ed:
>
> I know of at least three people on other boats that have had mast failures and they were not Nonsuches. Actually, if you are going to have a mast failure a Nonsuch might be a better boat to be on as this recent tragic demasting incident near Bermuda shows.
> At least on a Nonsuch you do not have all those stainless steel wire stays that could entangle you as happened here:
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com/2010/11/staying-away-from-dangerous-si...
try to get away.
On Dec 3, 7:59 pm, "Joe Valinoti" <joesa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking about rigging, I might have told this story before: Back about 6 years ago, while solo sailing not 2 miles from my home on the Neuse River in Eastern NC, I suddenly heard a noise on my right which turned out to be a 63 ft Searay up on plane making at least 35 kts. Being on a port tack, I immediately put the wheel down to try and get out of the way. While turning the wheel and for a least 1 second, I thought of the power vs. sail rule.
> His rubrail hit the starboard side of my Cape Dory 30 right by the shrouds severing them. Since I had just about completed the tack, the mast came down on the port side into the water. Those masts are deck stepped which prevented major damage to the rig itself. He ruptured two feet of the deck and an equal amount of the hull.
> Having some knowledge of radio communications, I knew that my main radio's antenna was about two feet under water. I called the Coast Guard on channel 16 with the handheld - no joy. At that point the Searay came on the air and asked if I was OK. I informed him that I didn't know and asked him to notify the Coast Guard which he did.
> After assessing the situation, I called the local boatyard and told him of my plight which included running and standing rigging in the water. It took the towboat operator and myself at least an hour to secure the boat in a condition to allow towing the 4 miles to the yard due to the rigging. It's interesting to note that the Searay never altered course or slowed until after the impact.
> What doesn't kill you makes you a better boater,
> Joe Valinoti
> S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221 (1984)
> Sea Harbour Yacht Club
> Oriental, NC
> PS - The delivery crew said that one of the licensed captains was below changing the CD and the other was looking at the chart plotter
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike
> To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Mast Failure
>
> Ed:
>
> I know of at least three people on other boats that have had mast failures and they were not Nonsuches. Actually, if you are going to have a mast failure a Nonsuch might be a better boat to be on as this recent tragic demasting incident near Bermuda shows.
> At least on a Nonsuch you do not have all those stainless steel wire stays that could entangle you as happened here:
>
> Mike
> BIANKA
> 1986 30U
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com
>
> --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Ed Taxwizz <Goo...@taxwizz.com> wrote:
>
> From: Ed Taxwizz <Goo...@taxwizz.com>
> Subject: Mast Failure
> To: "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 2:48 PM
>
> Hi Everyone;
> I have noticed several posts on mast replacement.
> Does anyone have any idea how often Nonsuch masts fail?
> Is anyone keeping statistics?
> (Please don't make me nervous)
>
> Cheers,
> Ed Collis
> ORION VII
> Mike
> BIANKA
> 1986 30U
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com
>
> --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Ed Taxwizz <Goo...@taxwizz.com> wrote:
>
> From: Ed Taxwizz <Goo...@taxwizz.com>
> Subject: Mast Failure
> To: "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 2:48 PM
>
> Hi Everyone;
> I have noticed several posts on mast replacement.
> Does anyone have any idea how often Nonsuch masts fail?
> Is anyone keeping statistics?
> (Please don't make me nervous)
>
> Cheers,
> Ed Collis
> ORION VII
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