Folding Steering Wheel

[Mike Read]

Again, I seek advice from this august body,

I'm tempted by a folding steering wheel.

As my mind becomes more forgetful, it would be nice to find the steering wheel where it ought to be when leaving the dock instead of nicely out of the way, perched on the stern railing.

Lewmar has an option that lists "Tapered vs parallel shaft". I suspect our Edson pedestals are old-school parallel, with a tapered key.

Does anyone know for sure?

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

[Don Crossley]

Hi,

I bought a Lewmar folding wheel for my NS30U 2 years ago, very happy with this purchase. I'm pretty sure it came with both hubs, tapered and straight. The Edson I have is straight. But smaller ones might not.

Also, my original wheel was 28", I bought a 32". Thought about a 36", but on measuring I found the cockpit locker hatches would not fully open. Limiting access to lockers while underway. Of course yours will be different on a NS26.

Best price I found in Canada was online at Marine Outfitters in Ontario.

Read the installation instructions carefully, they warn you not to remove old wheel and install new one while underway. A US lawyer must have been involved.🙂

Hope that helps.

Don

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[Mike Jennings]

Mine has a straight shaft with a straight key.

NS5 Chancy.

Port Moody, BC.

Sent by Mike Jennings.

On May 2, 2023, at 8:10 PM, Don Crossley <doncr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mike Read]

Thanks for the responses,

I'll bet my wheel on a 26' is also 28".

Now I'm wondering if a 32" will fit....seem to remember my leg just squishing by the wheel and lazerette lid as it is now...

It''ll have to wait until I ship up north for the summer to measure. Thankfully Marine Outfitters is on our regular drive-by route.

Cheers,

Mike and Ashley Read

NS 26C #120 Nauti Girl

Bath, Ont.

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Mike,

I happen to know the answer to the first question: the standard wheels on N26s are indeed 28".  I recently measured mine for a new wheel/pedestal cover.

I'm pretty sure a 32" will fit.  I'll measure when I'm on the boat later today.  The wheel's center is above the cockpit seat level, so the wheel cross-section at the seat corners is less than the full 32" diameter.  However, you'd definitely have to forget about moving around it via the cockpit sole; you'll have to get up on the seats to move around the wheel.

Because I'm already doing that quite a bit with a 28" wheel, I built a grabrail extension to the guardrail around my pedestal.  This gives me a much better (and safer) handhold when moving around.  I'll take a picture of that when I'm on the boat and post it as well.  I built mine from 1" stainless steel tube,  and assorted fittings.  Probably cost me about $120 USD.   It still needs a bit of tweaking, but I'm very glad I did it.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[ed.b...@gmail.com]

Hi Don,

We have been thinking of buying a folding wheel and your response below was very helpful. 

 

I have a question about the position of the folding wheel when the rudder is centered.  Is the key or the hub somehow adjustable so that when the wheel’s folded segments are at the sides not the top and bottom when the rudder is at neutral? 

 

The boat should be at the dock and not moving when the wheel is folded so it doesn’t matter much except that I like to start moving with the rudder at neutral and I can imagine myself forgetting to recenter the rudder. 

 

Thanks,

…..Ed

 

 

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat, NS30322

Sarnia Yacht Club

Ed.b...@gmail.com

519 312-8650

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[Joe Weinbrecht]

Guys, I decided to go the other way and got a 26-in wheel for my 26C.

It gives me enough room to go forward from the helm without having to climb over the seats. 

I found a very nice leather covered wheel for $100. Edson wanted more than that for a leather cover kit only.

You can call me cheap, just don't call me late for dinner. 😊

Joe

SEA HORSE

Sassafras River, MD

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[Joe Valinoti]

That’s a good question, Ed.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hey Joe -

In my case, just don't call me DURING dinner.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Don Crossley]

Hi Ed,

The key and hub are not adjustable. When I installed mine, it was out by about 1/8 of a turn, not much but I wanted it proper and had made a turk's head knot to mark the wheel when centred and rudder straight.

I corrected the wheel centre by adjusting the cable on the steering quadrant, below in cockpit locker. Not too difficult to do, but took a few tries to get it right. You just loosen one side, then tighten the other.

I sold the old wheel for about $150 on Craigslist. So somewhat offset cost of new one. The 32" is the size to get for a NS30.

Cheers,

Don

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[Mike Jennings]

I suggest first making sure that the chain is centred on the sprocket. If it isn’t the chain may come off the sprocket at full lock. 

So centre the rudder (your emergency tiller makes a great pointer.

Centre the chain (if I remember right it is 16” long). Oil the shaft and grease the chain at the same time.

Adjust the cables. I like to wax them as well.

Mike Jennings.

NS5 Chancy.

Port Moody, BC.

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Ok, back from the boat.

The distance from the center of the wheel  hub to the corner of the cockpit seats on my N26 is 17.5", which means that a 33" wheel will likely fit with an inch to spare.  (You definitely won't be able to open the cockpit lockers without folding the wheel first.  Whether that's a problem or not depends on how likely you consider the possibility of needing to access them while underway.)

The attached picture shows the grab bar I ginned up as an add-on to but steering pedestal rail guard.   As currently done, it's still a bit wobbly, but it conveys the concept.  I'd suggest doing something like it if you're going to be stepping up on the seats to get around a larger wheel.  Otherwise, the thing you grab when moving forward when the going gets bumpy will likely be wheel.  In that case,  you'll end up simultaneously losing your handhold and throwing the boat into a hard turn, both at a bad time to do either.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Don Crossley]

On my boat engine kill cable is located inside starboard cockpit locker. So being able to fully open the cockpit locker hatch to kill engine in emergency situation is important consideration.

Don 

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[Joe Valinoti]

As far as I know, all standard Nonsuch boats had the shutoff in the starboard locker.  I’m glad that Don brought that up before I did.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Don Crossley

Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 1:27 AM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Folding Steering Wheel

 

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

I did some preliminary planning some time back on how I could relocate the shut-off to be accessible from the helm without opening the locker door.

The two alternatives I considered were: (a) cutting a hole in the side, angling the current push-pull to go through it, and adding some kind of cover to keep water from getting in; vs., (b) setting up a lever on an axle through the cockpit side, with an inner arm set up to lift and lower the cut-off and the outer arm operable from the cockpit.

I came to the conclusion that I could probably make it work, but it wasn't worth the effort it'd take me to make it look good.  But, it's a possibility if someone wanted or needed to do it badly enough and had the right skills.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Joe Valinoti]

I’ve been trying to get my butt in gear to do this, Bob.  I have seen a bracket to place on the pedestal legs that will accept a cable for this purpose.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Ted E]

Hi Mike - I took some measurements on  Purrfection today.

Steer wheel is 28”. Distance from core to seat 18 to 18 1/2” . Core of wheel depth on post 2 3/8”. 

Ted Eedson

26U #232 Purrfection sailing out of Loyalist Cove Marina on Lake Ontario at Bath.

[isotekca...@netscape.net]

Thanks  Ted,

So a 32 will just fit.

That helps a lot.

Cheers,

Mike

Sent from the all-new AOL app for Android

On Thu., 4 May 2023 at 2:15 p.m., Ted E

<eed...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[esan...@gmail.com]

Hi Joe,

I'd love to see a photo of the 26" wheel on your NS26.  Mine has the standard 28" wheel and I have to step up on the seats to go forward.  I've been thinking of a folding wheel, but your idea of a slightly smaller wheel might suit me better.

Thanks, 

Elsie Sands

NS26 Seven Stars

Maple Bay, Vancouver Island

Canada

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Elsie,

Something to consider is that the diameter of the wheel affects how much leverage you (and any autopilot you might have) are able to exert on the rudder.

Depending on your size, strength, and the conditions you sail in, this may or may not be a significant difference, but it is something to keep in mind before making a final commitment.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Elsie Sands]

Bob, 

That’s a good point.  I’m not big or tall.  The length of my arms (to suit my 5”4” height) makes it hard to do some things on the boat, like reaching to the bottom of the icebox.  Ha!  Stepping up on the seats to get past the wheel is probably good exercise and I can see that the size of the wheel I have now (28”) is probably better than a 26” for someone of my stature

Thanks for chiming in.

Elsie Sands

NS 26C Seven Stars, 

Maple Bay, BC.  

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[Don Crossley]

Elsie,

I installed a Lewmar folding wheel on my NS30U about 3 years ago, there was a thread about this at that time. Also, at the time, the best price I could find in Canada was at Marine Outfitters in Ontario, but maybe different now.

You'll also need to determine whether your hub is straight or tapered before ordering.

I think the local distributor is located in the Victoria area.

Don

1987 NS30U Breezin

Vancouver BC

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[Joe Valinoti]

I don’t believe the diameter of the wheel effects the wheel mounted autopilot.  Certainly not if it’s a “ram” type system mounted on the quadrant..

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)

Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 10:38 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: Folding Steering Wheel

 

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[Ron Schryver]

Agreed Joe. We have a wheel mounted Raymarine Autohelm on a custom wheel of smaller diameter and it all works as it did with the stock wheel.

Ron

Ron & Diane Schryver

"Alpha Waves" 1987 NS30U #393

Georgian Bay Midland ON

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[Joe Weinbrecht]

Elsie,

I think you will find the smaller wheel to be a nice change, I'm too old for the unnecessary climbing.  To answer other questions...the diameter has no effect on a wheel mounted AutoHelm, the shaft is straight so no taper issue, unless you're seriously under-reefed for the conditions there's no noticeable extra effort required on the helmsperson.  I'll try to get a pic in the next few days.  If you look around, you may find a bargain. 

Joe

SEA HORSE

Sassafras River, MD

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335037946254?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=335037946254&targetid=1645685073288&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9008119&poi=&campaignid=20398194610&mkgroupid=158433975104&rlsatarget=pla-1645685073288&abcId=9317237&merchantid=110240742&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZayBhDRARIsAPWzx8okz-OIsNT8OY8UHlKLlLEIrKtAw6BciqHKgDXTwXT_Pa14g7t2b64aAoUeEALw_wcB

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[Paul Miller]

Just try steering with your hands on the spokes just inside the rim in different conditions. It would be a good simulation of the difference in strength required. I doubt it is much as you are reducing the length of a lever from 14” to 13”.

Paul M

NS30U, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Hi Elsie -

The reality is that you are thinking about a folding wheel to make life more convenient once the vessel is at rest, not sailing. The only N26 I ever sailed had a 28" wheel and it was perfect - lots of mechanical advantage, etc. While sailing, yes, one would have to "get around" that wheel. I would not go with a smaller wheel on a 5 ton boat with a BIG sail. But, once you arrive and tie up, instead of going fold, fold (and spending a good whack $$$$$ to enjoy the folding, especially with some nice HST added on ..... ), you could, in 5 seconds, unscrew the existing solid wheel and put it away in some convenient "holder" or something truly magical that the likes of Paul Miller could scheme up. Bet it would look gorgeous, too.

Is Paul taking orders ????

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Weinbrecht]

Ernie,

The only problem with removing the wheel, is Neptune eventually reclaiming the key sitting unprotected on the shaft...that would not be nice...and we ALL have, or will, donate tools and/or fittings to King Neptune.

Joe

SEA HORSE

Sassafras River, MD

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Joe W. -

Of course, you are correct so one would have to have a failsafe way of ensuring that it stays put. Like maybe a snug fitting, elasticised Sunbrella bag that you immediately snap right over the whole fitting ???

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Furthermore ..... (and this'll make EVERYONES' eyes roll) ...... is there a way to "cement" the key on to the shaft so it goes nowhere ?? I speak of a Locktite "type" product that, in a pinch with tools, can be cleaned out if need be, but, otherwise, will hold that little sucker in there (kind of like ....... um ....... POLYGRIP for dentures or more like a very weak but still working 3M-4200 that is removable) ??

I don't see many circumstances where one would have to be removing the key frequently. It could just "sit there", no ??

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Weinbrecht]

PolyGrip 😆😆

You'll need a keeper for the wheel nut too!!

Joe

SeaHorse

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[Joe Valinoti]

The nut behind the wheel would screw the wheel nut back on immediately since the shaft is sharp!!

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Joe Weinbrecht

Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 10:17 AM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Folding Steering Wheel

 

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Elsie,

The comments that followed mine make good points.   

I wasn't thinking through the autopilot connections, which don't change with the size of the wheel.   I was wrong, and everyone else was absolutely right that an autopilot should be fine regardless of wheel size.

And Paul is spot on -- you can test the question by steering with your hands on the spokes to see how much the change in leverage affects you.

My guess is that the concern I raised would only matter if you got into conditions where the boat was severely overpowered.  Unless you're planning lots of long distance jaunts, these can usually be avoided with good judgement and a good weather app.  As a saying I like to quote often goes, "A skillful seaman avoids situations that would require skillful seamanship."

So, my apologies.  I was trying to raise considerations to think about, not push what decision you should make.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233

   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Greg Silver]

To keep the key in place when wheel is off I use a wrap of double-sided Velcro tape around shaft and key. Lee Valley sells this in garden supplies. When wheel is on the Velcro stays on shaft forward of the wheel. When wheel is off I just bungee-cord it to any handy stanchion as it sits inboard on deck. 

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St. Peter’s, Cape Breton

[Michael Hoff]

I think it’s worth mentioning one caveat regarding the folding wheel. When the wheel is folded, the four corners are pointy as indicated in the attached photo. If the wheel is not locked down tight and you happen to grab the top while maneuvering around it, you can pull the pointy end at the top into your belly and suffer a bruise at best and potentially some nasty damage. Don’t ask how I know. 

Mike Hoff

Evelyn May 26C

Lake Tashmoo, Martha’s Vineyard

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

This is a bit of a repeat of an earlier post on this thread, but...

Without getting into a pro or con position on folding steering wheels, I'd like to suggest that -- regardless of which kind you have -- it's highly desirable to have a grabrail that works on our boats for stepping up and down between the cockpit seats and cockpit sole  without grabbing the wheel.

In addition to risk of injury (and I can't help thinking about what part of my anatomy could be level with the points on that folded wheel, Mike), there's the risk of massively throwing the boat off-course when an unlocked wheel makes a hard turn instead of providing fixed support.  That could lead to discomfort for more than just one individual on the boat.

Here's an example from my boat of an extension to the pedestal guardrail that I cobbled together for my boat from off-the-shelf fixtures for less than $100.   Makes it easy to grab something solid when moving between front and rear of the cockpit via stepping up on the seats.

Someone who wanted better and nicer could probably get a metal shop to bend something nicer looking out of 1" stainless pipe without much trouble. 

If someone wants a folding wheel, fine, but if the issue is safely moving around the cockpit, I think something like this would be a good investment either way.