Starter battery size

[Jack Dokter]

Fellow Nonsuchers ,

Just polling the membership to ask what size and type of battery they use as as a "starter battery" for a Westerbeke 21, 21A, 27, and 27A engines. 

I have been using a deep cycle group 27, but it's 6 years old and too weak to go another season.  The reason I used a deep cycle, is to act as a "reserve backup" to our house batteries just in case they deplete at an overnight anchorage.  It still starts the engine,  but since it's a deep cycle, at 200 CCA, the engine starter rotates more slowly, but it still easily starts our engine.
Since a replacement is required, I'm debating whether to stay with a deep cycle  or switch to a regular group 24 battery providing 600 CCA power.

Jack Dokter
Nine Lives 26C W21, 099
Penetanguishene,  On

[Joe Valinoti]

I use a wet cell, group 24 starting battery.  Any battery that you depend on that is over 5 years old, is best replaced.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[ed ‹(•¿•)›]

I would think that the LAST thing you want to do is use your starter battery for house use if the regular house batteries are dead.

 

Then you will have BOTH dead house batteries and dead starter battery.  With my old boat I could hand crank, with difficulty, the 12 hp Yanmar, but I don't think that you can hand crank the 27 Westerbreak.

 

Use a regular car starter battery, and keep it isolated from the house.

 

Ed Collis

ORION VII

Toronto

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Dokter

To: ina-nonsuch-discussion-group

Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 11:14 AM

Subject: Starter battery size

--

[Thor Powell (Mariner's Cat V - N 26C)]

Group 24 Sears Deep Cell for a start battery 500 CCA

Trojan 6V Deep Cell 225 Amp 

I did see a formula, I think it was in one of Calder's books, that equated HP to CCA.  As I recall he came up with 650 CCA.  I think at 500 I am on thin side of the range.  There are 800 CCA group 24's, Interstate sells one.  I am not so sure how "deep" the Sears one is...

The set up is:

Battery switch set to House at all times

Battery banks combine automatically when charge voltage of 13.3V is sensed and separate at 12.8 V

We start and live on the combined bank when fully charged. House is used otherwise for everything. Start battery is a last resort only. 

I have had to take recourse once in 16 years to the start battery.  A brand new house battery failed.  Started right up.  I have welding cable to the starter and ground and the runs are short. There is a slow blow fuse on both banks and the connections are crimped and soldered.

I get 7 - 9 years on the golf cart batteries. I think it is due to the fact we rarely run them down more than 30% and check the water levels regularly. I do not keep them on the boat in the winter. The on board charger does not adjust for the cold winter temps so home they come.   

The start battery is 6 to 7 years old, I had it load tested this fall and it passed with flying colours. But   Debbie tells me I am getting a new one this spring and must relegate it for use with the old MG.  Old car + Old Battery = Lucas Prince of Darkness

Thor

[Jack Dokter]

Ed,
I  knew there was something wrong in my original message, regarding a starter battery backing up my house batteries.  Geez.... Must be suffering from too many wintery days away from the boat   Lol.  My apologies and mistake. 

What I actually have is a spare deep cycle battery stored away under a bunk in case either system goes down.

Jack

[matthewsjon66]

If you are replacing both house and starter batteries, then
I would recommend using all Sears Diahard Platinum AGM :
either "group 31M" (PM-1) or "group 34M" (PM-2) batteries.

They are both deepcycle and starter, and need NO maintenance.
They will give no problems.
Consumer Reports and RV forums both say they are the best.

I have had them six years so far, and at least once let them drain, but they
seem fresh as new.

Charger needs to be set for AGM, and they are very expensive from Sears USA.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850131000P?vName=Automotive&sName=Marine+Batteries&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers

Cheers,
Jon Matthews (Evensong, N30U #266 Toronto)

[ed ‹(•¿•)›]

Hi Jack.

Sounds like Overkill.

Have you considered getting a Honda 1000 or 2000 generator and carrying it on deck?

 

I carry the 2000 and it has enough power to run my air conditioner.

 

Eddy

[Jorgen Moller]

OK, I don't need a starter battery, because of my electric drive. I do use agm for house and the winch for the main halyard. The problem with ALL the lead based battery types is that if you don't keep up with their maintanence such as water levels and keeping them fully charged the memory effect will quickly reduce their effective lifespan. I often hear skippers telling that they just keep their battery banks at 80%, but quickly that is now the max the batteries will supply and there is not much you can do to recover the lost capacity. It is quite depressing to see the large pile of batteries discarded on a yearly basis in the yard, most of them only a few years old. Mind you the yard makes quite a lot of money on the scrap value. Combining batteries should only be done if they are the same size and age. A bad battery can soon spoil the whole lot. Your starter battery is your last chance to get to safety, so keep it for that only and because the load is low keep it at 100% with a small solar charger. Also, keep a battery on a low voltage disconnect (12.8V) from your house bank, as reserve for navigation lights and VHF radio. But of cause you can always use flares to call for help if anybody is around to see them in the storm or fog. By the way, I use LiFePO4 batteries for my motor. They are not affected by the memory effect. I have used them for 5 years without any noticeable drop in capacity, and I hope to be able to use them for at least another 10 years, unless of cause I fail first.

Jorgen Moller

PONDUS NS26 #33

Toronto

[Jack Dokter]

Since both of my house batteries were replaced last year with lead acid, I'm restricted to the same style for a starter battery.  ( Unless I want to go with a full retrofit)  The shore powered battery charger has provisions to charge AGM,  Gel, or Lead acid, but no mixing is suggested.

We spend a lot of time in quiet and secluded anchorages in the Georgian Bay region.  I like the peace and quiet, and the longer we can run on house batteries without charging, the better.  Usually we can achieve 8 to 10 hours between charges.   The extra beefy 110 amp alternator installed last spring sure helps with charge times.

I just spotted in a Westerbeke manual that a minimal 12 volt 180 CCA  battery is required to start a 3 cylinder Westerbeke, and a 400 CCA is a minimum if in extreme cold environments.

Jack Dokter
Nine Lives.

--

[Thor Powell (Mariner's Cat V - N 26C)]

8 to 10 hours does not seem very much.  My 2 golf cart batteries rarely get below 80% in 3 days. We run the engine for maybe an hour total as we leave and enter a new spot and that seems to do the trick.  Like you I have a 120 amp alternator and a "smart charger" so it does recharge well.  Based on out consumption of about 10 amps a day we figure we are good for 8 days before we need to charge.   Interestingly the largest consumer on the boat is the propane solenoid ! Who would have guessed.  Depth sounder is next in line.   We burn through about 15 amps is underway for 12 hours sailing. 

Now I do not have refrigeration. That would require I add 2 more golf cart batteries and a 150 watt solar panel, plus the unit itself. For us at the end of the day just not worth it.    

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[Thor Powell (Mariner's Cat V - N 26C)]

Are the charging requirements different for these batteries Jorgen?

[Jorgen Moller]

Thor,

if you have T105 or equivalent flooded batteries a charger with 3 or 4 phase charging profile is fine, even better if it adjust for temperature. If you are using sealed batteries only use 3 phase chargers. The high voltage eqvalization phase can severily damage a sealed battery.

Trojan has a great tool for best practice battery maintenance for both flodded  and sealed batteries. http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ which I like. If you rely on charging from the altenator, keep an eye on how well the batteries are charged and the water level. How best to measure, and when is well explained in the document above. My LiFePO4 batteries are easy. They should just be charged to max voltage, i.e. only one phase. Anything above that will damage it.

Jorgen Moller

PONDUS NS25 #33

Toronto

[Evensong30U]

Update : It is now 10 years that I have had these AGM batteries, and I have done nothing to them for 10 years.  

This past winter COVID kept members from visiting their boats and charging their batteries; 

as usual I did not worry about it, and the engine started first time with no trouble.  

Someday I will have to replace these wonderful batteries, and I will consider LiFePo4 batteries or go with the same again. 

Cheers, 
Jon Matthews (Evensong, N30U #266 Toronto) 

[Thor Powell Mariner's Cat V - 26C - North Channel]

Jorgen

 

Most of the charging takes place off a 120 amp Powerline alternator that the Balmar regulator down grades to 80 amps due to the belt size.  Once or twice a summer we seem to endure a 4 hour motor ride, the only redeeming feature of this exercise is we charge the banks to 100%. 

When we resupply we can hook to the AC and a inverter/charger , 20 amp I think, tops us up in the 3-5 hours we are there.

We use little power, lights, VHF, depth sounder, propane solenoid. 

The Powerline alternator works well. Designed for ambulances and such it is a beast. A while ago I managed to find a new one on Ebay as a spare for a reasonable number of boat dollars.

I suspect that my well loved Westerbeke 21 will  be the last fuel engine Mariner's Cat sees........

Thor

[wynd...@gmail.com]

Update : It is now 12 years that I have had these AGM batteries, and I have done nothing to them for 12 years.  

I had them tested, and was told they are fine for more years.

It appears that good high-quality AGM batteries can be used for a very long time.

Cheers,
Jon Matthews (Evensong, N30U #266 Toronto)

 

From: Evensong30U
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 1:32 AM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Starter battery size

 

Update : It is now 10 years that I have had these AGM batteries, and I have done nothing to them for 10 years.  

[Thor Powell]

I have used Trojan T105's  since 2002.  We get 7 years . I suspect the newer chargers will maybe add another year as compared to the chargers of the later 1990's they are far more functional.

Trojan does recommend a higher charge voltage across the board for these batteries than you customarily see.  14.82v and 13.5  v. I have a new battery charger that allows me to set the parameters as does the Blamar alternator regulator.

[John Phillips]

Please share the name and model of your new charger.

Sent from my iPad

j...@ismc.com

Nonsuch 26U

Currently in Lyme, CT

On Jun 28, 2022, at 8:09 PM, Thor Powell <thor....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Thor Powell]

I have a Victron ip67.

https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip67-charger-waterproof