Radar mount

[Steven Arnold]

Hi  - I am a new owner of a 30U, sailing in New England waters.  I'm planning to update the electronics and install new radar and I've been hearing mixed things about mounting the radar on the mast in terms affecting the mast's structural integrity from the drill holes. On the other hand, because of the boom's length, there may be potential issues with a pedestal on the stern.   Opinions from the community would be very much appreciated.

Steven Arnold

Alveus

30U #450

[Robert & Diane Hindle]

Metalmast Marine Spars presumably still makes a Nonsuch specific radar mount that straps to the mast(no holes). We had one 10 years with zero problems. We mounted it above the boom, it worked well but  the halyard can easily get hung up on it (usually at the worst moments).  It was high enough to hopefully keep the rays above your head. Excellent product I think.

Bob Hindle

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[Jamie Morrison]

There seems to be a trend towards mounting radars on a stern pole. This arrangement seems to suit a Nonsuch very well. I have not heard of any problems with radar poles and the wishbone or sheet as long as the pole is tall enough and mounted outside the pushpit rail on a transom step or as far aft as possible. The newer radars no longer use a scanning magnetron so there is no longer a worry about microwaving you and your crew. 

However, I am a believer in a mast mounted radar for the simple reason that the extra height gives your radar extended range and accuracy. The radar should be mounted on the centreline of the boat. 

My radar has been mounted just below the mast joint for 25 years. The mount is a custom stainless bracket that wraps around the mast like a clamp. There are no holes drilled in the mast for the mount, only a single hole used to run the wiring. I regularly inspect this and have not seen any evidence of cracks. Off the shelf radar mounts can be mounted to the mast with stainless bands (think pallet strapping) that will securely hold it in place. I have seen several boats with the wiring running down the exterior of the mast and through the deck.

Regarding drilling holes in the mast I have seen lot of boats with radar mounts bolted in place at or below the mast joint. Usually involved drilling eight holes. I am not sure, and it would be interesting to hear, if a mast has ever failed because of this. Nonsuch masts generally fail near deck level where there is a tremendous amount of strain on the mast at the partners. The older 30’s had a pin that went through the mast collar and into the mast that I believe was the cause of the failures and led to the lower mast sections being replaced under warranty (correct me if I am wrong).

That would lead me to believe that the position of the exit hole for wiring is even more important than the holes drilled to mount the radar. Keeping this hole close to the butt of the mast would seem to be a great idea. There’s a lot of discussion about how these holes should be drilled. General consensus seems to be to create an oblong hole, like a slot, with rounded off edges that stop cracks from forming.

Another thing to consider is the age of the mast and the degradation of aluminum over time and how aggressively you sail your boat. Engineers in the group will certainly chime in with their educated perspective on this issue. 

My interest in all of this is that I am about to install a Raymarine Quantum WiFi radar. Only a two strand 14 gauge wire running to the dome. I have to remove my mast bracket to change the mount base from Furuno holes to Raymarine holes (wish there was a standard here) so I will be doing a close inspection of what has been going on at the mount over the years. I am still debating whether I will run a data cable to the dome to back up the WiFi. That depends on whether or not the two cables (data and power) will fit through the existing hole … or, devil may care, should I break out the drill and enlarge the hole.

Jamie Morrison
Dexterity II
30U 225
Halifax, Nova Scotia

[bob jenkins]

Hi Steven.

Six years ago I installed radar on a post installed on the exterior of the transom. I had Stainless products from Barrie Ontario make post and required brackets  , the same company that makes the swim platforms for our boats. 

I also have the Cressman boom extension which could increase a problem with the boom hitting the radar post , but there has never been such an issue. I am 150 km from my boat right now but could provide dimensional info of the installation if you can wait 3 weeks.

Should you wish to pursue the mast installation refer to the UPDATE winter 2015 issue and you will see how Paul Boudreau ,winner of Most Innovations, 2014 Rendezvous, installed his radar without drilling holes but using the mast joint bolts.

Hope this helps,

Bob Jenkins

Good News 30U. #323

Aurora and Penetang 

On Apr 6, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Steven Arnold <stevene...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Greg Silver]

HI Steven

I mounted my Raymarine radome on my mast, just below the wishbone, on a platform that is held to the mast with stainless straps that are thin enough to fit under the sail track. You could adapt an off-the-shelf platform for this, but I had one made from aluminum by a local fabricator for about $150 - that was 12 years ago. The aft end of the platform and the strut lug at bottom are welded to a partial section of aluminum pipe (found at a salvage yard) that fits nicely on the radius of the mast. It is these 'pipe section' that are banded to the mast.

I ran the wire externally from radome down the front of the mast, and then through a holed bored in the plastic mast boot. The wire fits between the wedges in the gap between mast and deck partner, to a waterproof terminal box in the forward compartment adjacent the mast. From there, via the bilge to the cockpit. I remove the radome and external wire each winter. In spring I install it before the mast is raised, then seal the hole in the boot with some silicone gunk. This has worked well all these years. I have adhesive backed plastic gizmos that accept a lightweight wire tie, these  are stuck to the mast every 2' or between radome and deck. These gizmos cost pennies apiece at our local electrician's supply shop. The adhesive gives up occasionally but they are cheap and easy to replace when necessary.

I've attached a pic of the radome bracket FYI.

Cheers,

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St. Peter's, Cape Breton

Hi - I am a new owner of a 30U, sailing in New England waters. I'm  planning to update the electronics and install new radar and I've been  hearing mixed things about mounting the radar on the mast in terms  affecting the mast's structural integrity from the drill holes. On the  other hand, because of the boom's length, there may be potential issues  with a pedestal on the stern. Opinions from the community would be very  much appreciated.   Steven Arnold Alveus 30U #450

[Allen Perrins]

Hi

My current NS is the second boat with Radar on a pedestal.

It uses a "U" shaped bracket mounted on the transom at the level of the

bottom of the blue stripe.  A second bracket is mounted on the top rail of the stern pulpit

A 2" piece of 1" teak stands the pedestal leaning slightly aft.

A platform for the radar is welded to the top of 8 foot tube extending aft only o

hold the radar.  The cable runs down the inside of the pedestal and exit at

the bottom of the tube.  This keeps the radar back as far as possible relative to the boom.

The radar display is mounted at the helm or down below above the port quarter berth.

Advantage:   No mast hardware, no interference with the stepping of the mast and crane mechanics.

                     No problem in handling the wiring.

                     No problem with flying halyard interference.

                     No mast interference with signal from overtaking boat

                    Range of radar is not a problem since targets of interest are at most seven miles out.

                    Can still watch weather systems fore and aft since they are always high enough to be seen.

                    Can service the radome by swinging the tube to a horizontal position.

                    Can leave the radar up year around.

                    Halyard for ship's ensign easily added.  No staff to stow.

 

Disadvantage:   None that I have found.

 

Somewhere on the web site is a picture of the installation.

 

Al     Barbcat NS30 C  #170 

  

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Arnold
Sent: Apr 6, 2016 7:45 AM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: Radar mount

Hi  - I am a new owner of a 30U, sailing in New England waters.  I'm planning to update the electronics and install new radar and I've been hearing mixed things about mounting the radar on the mast in terms affecting the mast's structural integrity from the drill holes. On the other hand, because of the boom's length, there may be potential issues with a pedestal on the stern.   Opinions from the community would be very much appreciated.

Steven Arnold

Alveus

30U #450

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[mark fagelman, md]

Mine is on a stern pole, and has been for many years.

I totally agree with Al

Mark

Puff

[Katmando]

I concur, my installation is the same except for an added cross tree which holds the digital antenna outboard and the weather station on top.

Cheers

Brian

Sent from my Nonsuch 30u

On Apr 6, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Allen Perrins <barb...@earthlink.net> wrote:

[Steven Arnold]

Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion and recommendations. Really helpful!

Best - Steven

Alveus NS30U 450

Charlestown, MA

[bobge...@gmail.com]

Hi All - Picking up on this old thread. I'm looking for a mast mount to add radar. Has anyone recently added a strap-on mast radar mount? Sources?

So far the only one I've gleaned from this thread and others is MetalMast Spars.

Thanks -

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland