foss.in - what is wrong with it AND how we fix it
Raj Shekhar
"
> Last time I looked chitnis and
> bhargava had issued a fatwa against Indians writing application software
> here are bangalore based mailing
> lists like linux-bangalore lists and foss.in list which focus on this event.
> As far as I know, this list is meant to revive the linux user group in
> Bangalore - the previous group having been suffocated by foss.in. The idea
> being that lug activity should be there 365 days in a year and not 5 days in
> a year.
"
It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not suggest
ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send suggestions on
how to fix.
Cheers
--
raj shekhar
facts: http://rajshekhar.net | opinions: http://rajshekhar.net/blog
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing
that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot
possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to
get at or repair. -- Mostly Harmless
Kingsly John
> It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not suggest
> ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send suggestions on
> how to fix.
I would rather we don't ... you can't fix something organised by a private
entity.
If they were interested in hearing suggestions they have their own lists.
Kingsly
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kingsly At Users Dot SourceForge Dot Net -- http://kingsly.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Gonsalves
> It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not suggest
> ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send suggestions on
> how to fix.
cannot be fixed - but somehow the old linux-bangalore conferences should be
revived. How to do it is up to the people in bangalore. (and just for the
record, I also feel the old freedel conferences in Delhi should be revived!)
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate
NRC-FOSS
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
Vid.A
>
> It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not suggest
> ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send suggestions on
> how to fix.
Why crib at all ? Event management is not easy but if enough folks
feel strongly about it, are motivated and can pull together a cohesive
working team, they have the freedom to create a new open and
transparent event and those interested will back it. Freedom works in
infinite ways and its entirely upto the individuals concerned. As for
increasing contributions, now that is a 365x7x24 effort.
--
Vid
|| http://www.svaksha.com ||
Sandip Bhattacharya
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Raj Shekhar <spa...@rajshekhar.net>
wrote:
> > It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not
> > suggest ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send
> > suggestions on how to fix.
>
> Why crib at all ?
I agree. It is not a zero sum game here. If there is enough community
support for the event, it has got it's right to live. It doesn't come in
the way of others to form their own community nor their opportunity to
plan their own event.
- Sandip
Kenneth Gonsalves
> > > It is fine to crib, but it is really not fair to crib and not
> > > suggest ways to fix the issue. Use this thread to crib AND send
> > > suggestions on how to fix.
> >
> > Why crib at all ?
>
> I agree. It is not a zero sum game here. If there is enough community
> support for the event, it has got it's right to live. It doesn't come in
> the way of others to form their own community nor their opportunity to
> plan their own event.
but the problem here is that this event and its organisers come 'in the way of
others to form their own community and their opportunity to plan their own
event'. In fact they systematically and ruthlessly suppress every attempt at
foss activity in Bangalore outside the 5 days of ecstacy.
I think you shifted to bangalore about 2 years ago - how many LUG meets have
you been able to attend? And, even after all my requests, when Bangalore
people ask me for foss cd/dvds, I still have to refer them to Pune LUG. Let
toolz and his gang save the world - please just make it possible for n00bs to
get CD/DVDs and a few addresses for help in case they get stuck. I have a lot
of potential converts in Bangalore and it is highly embarrassing for me to
dither when they ask for help.
Akarsh Simha
> but the problem here is that this event and its organisers come 'in the way of
> others to form their own community and their opportunity to plan their own
> event'. In fact they systematically and ruthlessly suppress every attempt at
> foss activity in Bangalore outside the 5 days of ecstacy.
Were there any such instances in the past?
I do agree that the linux-bangalore-foo lists are usually inactive and
are not meant for newbies. Now that there is the ILUG-B list, I think
newbies have a good place to find help. Those lists are, AFAIK, for
developers and system administrators more than for users :)
Regards
Akarsh
Sandip Bhattacharya
>
> I think you shifted to bangalore about 2 years ago - how many LUG
> meets have you been able to attend?
One, the first meeting of this group a couple of weeks back.
Well, for one, the reason I haven't attended any was that most of the
people in Bangalore and elsewhere mentioned there weren't any. Plus the
fact that if there had been any meets, I didn't know anyone who attends
them to introduce me out there. The reason I attended the ilugb one was
that I knew quite a few people in it. Till now, I haven't witnessed any
attempts by anybody to discourage it, even though I must admit that it
is still kind of a fledgling group.
> And, even after all my requests,
> when Bangalore people ask me for foss cd/dvds, I still have to refer
> them to Pune LUG. Let toolz and his gang save the world - please just
> make it possible for n00bs to get CD/DVDs and a few addresses for
> help in case they get stuck. I have a lot of potential converts in
> Bangalore and it is highly embarrassing for me to dither when they
> ask for help.
I have been providing CDs/DVDs regularly to people in Delhi. The way to
go about it was to have a central wiki where people who volunteer to
write CDs sign up.
Do we have a wiki for this LUG group yet?
- Sandip
Kenneth Gonsalves
those lists are hijacked lists - they do not belong to any community - and
exist for the promotion of one person. Thank your stars that at last
Bangalore has a lug list for the community - and, hopefully, an active LUG.
After all is it something to be proud of to be the only major city in the
world without an active LUG?
Kenneth Gonsalves
> I have been providing CDs/DVDs regularly to people in Delhi. The way to
> go about it was to have a central wiki where people who volunteer to
> write CDs sign up.
>
> Do we have a wiki for this LUG group yet?
if i recall correctly, you are an expert in setting up wikis (no, I am not
advocating the 'ilugd rule' - I would be happy to set up such a wiki if
needed). I think the webspace provided by google for this group could be used
to set up such a page. If there is nothing forthcoming, I will put a page
up - it is up to the bangalore guys to populate it.
Akarsh Simha
> those lists are hijacked lists - they do not belong to any community - and
> exist for the promotion of one person. Thank your stars that at last
> Bangalore has a lug list for the community - and, hopefully, an active LUG.
> After all is it something to be proud of to be the only major city in the
> world without an active LUG?
But were there instances of suppression of the growth of any other
LUG? I see no reason for the, to interfere in other FOSS activities in
Bangalore. In fact, I found that Team FOSS.IN members are encouraging
when it comes to promoting FOSS etc.
Regards
Akarsh
Vid.A
>
> But were there instances of suppression of the growth of any other
> LUG? I see no reason for the, to interfere in other FOSS activities in
> Bangalore. In fact, I found that Team FOSS.IN members are encouraging
> when it comes to promoting FOSS etc.
I have to disagree. IMHO and based on personal experience, under the
guise of support the foss.in team only wants to control the
LinuxChix-India group** with the easiest way being :
- Get abusive "and" complain to higher-ups if one asks that the
linuxchix domain be with volunteers as is the practice followed in the
International Linuxchix.org group.
- Squat on the domain (Do a whois for linuxchix.org.in and strangely
this person unsubscribed from the Indichix list in Feb2008 but never
bothered to hand over the domain before leaving the group).
- Not allow the volunteers/members of the group to make their own decisions.
There is more but well... I rest my case !!
** LinuxChix India is not a local LUG but if nothing else in my
experience the main group's culture has always been open and
transparent, but implementing that in the local level was a challenge.
--
Vid
|| http://www.svaksha.com ||
Manish Chakravarty
> I think you shifted to bangalore about 2 years ago - how many LUG meets have
> you been able to attend? And, even after all my requests, when Bangalore
> people ask me for foss cd/dvds, I still have to refer them to Pune LUG. Let
> toolz and his gang save the world - please just make it possible for n00bs to
> get CD/DVDs and a few addresses for help in case they get stuck. I have a lot
> of potential converts in Bangalore and it is highly embarrassing for me to
> dither when they ask for help.
[Slight-OT]
This is where I find BOSUG ( bangalore opensolaris user group) a model UG.
I'm cc-ing the list on this mail
Let's leave the technology issues aside for a minute ( ie if you have
an interest in Solaris/OpenSolaris/Nevada etc)
A person who is curios about OpenSolaris (and related technologies
like DTrace, ZFS etc) need only to join the mailing list and ask
questions.
Some interesting stuff that I noted
- World's second largest OpenSolaris UG ( 200+ members; correct me if
i am wrong)
- a distro.. BeleniX ( www.beleinix.org ) ; now used all over and
outside BOSUG members as well
- NO flamewars. Ever. ( i've been a member for 1.5 years) People
who've been around for a longer tell me that this is true as well.
- No "show me the whatever" BS. People who work/contribute are the
ones who set the general direction of the community
- Inspite of what I wrote above, each idea is listened to and weighed
on technical merits
- Regular UG meets ( once a month or so)
- Advocacy , backed up by work
- high calibre of people.
After quoting all this, if there is I had to point out one single plus
point of BOSUG.. it would be a tough choice.. but I would say the
humility of highly talented people.
PS: please take this post in the spirit of "Example of a good UG in
Bangalore" as opposed to " lets bitch about foss.in/blug/whatever"
--
Manish Chakravarty
http://manish-chaks.livejournal.com/
Sandip Bhattacharya
> if i recall correctly, you are an expert in setting up wikis (no, I
> am not advocating the 'ilugd rule' - I would be happy to set up such
> a wiki if needed). I think the webspace provided by google for this
> group could be used to set up such a page. If there is nothing
> forthcoming, I will put a page up - it is up to the bangalore guys to
> populate it.
Hardly an expert.
FWIW, I have requested for a wiki on wikia.com
(http://requests.wikia.com/wiki/Ilug-bengaluru). We can use that as a
provisional or even permanent wiki for the group. Will let you know when
that is approved. The url , if and when approved, will be
http://ilug-bengaluru.wikia.com
- Sandip
Kenneth Gonsalves
On Wed, November 5, 2008 8:08 pm, Manish Chakravarty wrote:
> - World's second largest OpenSolaris UG ( 200+ members; correct me if
> i am wrong)
by 200 members, do you mean mailing list members? or active members who
post and come for meetings?
--
regards
kg
Sriram Narayanan
The number of people who post actively are limited. However, our list
is closely watched and our opinions are discussed around the world. I
know this for a fact based on my interactions with other global
opensolaris enthusiasts at the opensolaris develop conference held in
May this year at Santa Cruz (South of San Francisco).
Those are people from around the world who have signed up on their
own. Mostly, it's to track the reports of Belenix. We have good
friends worldwide who communicate with various BOSUG members either on
the list, or on IRC, on IM, or over direct email.
Our attendence ranges from 8 people to 30 people on Saturday evenings.
The number of 200 is sometimes cited since this is the largest
collection of a group for a technology that has only recently been
opensourced, and which has experts still mostly within Sun.
The main points about BOSUG that appeal to me are the lack of
acrimony, the acceptance of other technologies, the absence of one
upmanship, and a culture that encourages questions and wild ideas.
There is a BOSUG meeting tomorrow (Saturday) evening at 6:30 pm at
Thoughtworks Bangalore. I welcome you and other list members to attend
and interact with various BOSUG members.
> --
> regards
>
> kg
>
>
-- Sriram
Manish Chakravarty
We have tech-talks and discussions in BOSUG
(Copy-pasting from the invite mail for this meet)
Date : 8-Nov
Time : 6pm - 8:30pm
Topic: Virtualization using xVMserver and xVM VirtualBox
Venue: Thoughtworks
2nd Floor, Tower C, Corporate Block,
Diamond District, Airport Road,
Bangalore
Ph: +91.80. 25089572
Location in yahoo & google maps:
http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=12.9606&lon=77.6438&zoom=18&q1=diamond
district bangalore
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=diamond+district,+bangalore&z=15&ll=12.96,77.65
Confirm your presence by sending a mail to me (not to the list).
This is the same venue as the ilug-bengaluru meet!
Feel free to invite interested friends/colleagues :)
If you do attend *please* drop a mail to either Sriram Naraynan or me off-list!
Thanks
Manish Chakravarty