[ANN] FWDE launched
Kenneth Gonsalves
I am happy to announce that we have at long last launched the Foss Web
Deployment Engineer Certification. 'The first question that will arise is:
'Kenneth of all people is launching a certification? he must be fit to be
certified'. True. To date I have never looked at a candidate's certificates
when interviewing him - as I know how easy these things are to crack and that
mugging up is no guarantee that the person actually *knows* anything. For the
last three years we have been working to set up a certification that tests FOSS
ability - rather than memory or exam writing skills. We feel that we have
achieved this. The certification is endorsed by the GOI and Anna University, so
the paper may be worth something - but I feel the value of the certification is
that anyone who attempts it - pass or fail - will imbibe some of the spirit of
FOSS and be more employable (and a better person).
I wish to thank those members of this and other mailing lists for contributing
their ideas, time and effort to this. I also request all of you to contribute
to the forums and answer questions there. Those of you who have companies that
use FOSS tools or train FOSS people are requested to register their companies
on the site. And give feedback on the skills you require. There is a nominal
fee of Rs 100 for registration - that is to keep the viagra salesmen out, and
also to test out our online payment system - we are one of the first government
educational institutions to have an online payment system - and probably the
only certifying authority in the world which has the whole source code of it's
website online and freely downloadable. And that includes the code for the
online payment itself.
The site is still in an experimental stage - so please be kind and report
errors and omissions.
--
regards
kg
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Vivek Khurana
Nice detailed mail Kenneth, but where is the url for certification,
registration etc. etc. ? :)
</top post>
regards
Vivek
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The hidden harmony is better than the obvious!!
vid
>
> certified'. True. To date I have never looked at a candidate's certificates
> when interviewing him -
</nitpick>
> I wish to thank those members of this and other mailing lists for contributing
> their ideas, time and effort to this. I also request all of you to contribute
> to the forums and answer questions there.
> only certifying authority in the world which has the whole source code of it's
> website online and freely downloadable. And that includes the code for the
> online payment itself.
--
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Kenneth Gonsalves
Kenneth Gonsalves
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
>
> <law...@thenilgiris.com> wrote:
> > errors and omissions.
>
> http://certificate.nrcfoss.au-kbc.org.in/eventfull/1/
>
corrected - thanks for the feed back
Kenneth Gonsalves
> > certified'. True. To date I have never looked at a candidate's
> > certificates when interviewing him -
>
> *cough*..."him"? and i thought there was atleast one women on the nrcfoss
> team.
>
vid
> On Wednesday 16 Dec 2009 10:04:04 pm vid wrote:
>> > certified'. True. To date I have never looked at a candidate's
>> > certificates when interviewing him -
>>
>> *cough*..."him"? and i thought there was atleast one women on the nrcfoss
>> team.
>>
>
> around half of them are women
Nice to hear that which is why generally speaking, I use "him/her" or
a gender neutral term of address in order to be more inclusive whilst
referring to women within floss communities. Nothing personal and I
brought this up because I remember our conversation and know that you
do care a lot about improving the poor gender representation within
the Indian floss communities. Its something I care about too.
--
|| vid | http://svaksha.com ||
Kenneth Gonsalves
> >> > certified'. True. To date I have never looked at a candidate's
> >> > certificates when interviewing him -
> >>
> >> *cough*..."him"? and i thought there was atleast one women on the
> >> nrcfoss team.
> >
> > around half of them are women
>
> Nice to hear that which is why generally speaking, I use "him/her" or
> a gender neutral term of address in order to be more inclusive whilst
> referring to women within floss communities. Nothing personal and I
> brought this up because I remember our conversation and know that you
> do care a lot about improving the poor gender representation within
> the Indian floss communities. Its something I care about too.
>
just completed a round of interviews and you may be interested to know that
60% of the successful candidates were women. I am too lazy to use him/her, so
I vary it.
Mahesh Mohan
Don't give Microsoft the remote control. Don't use Windows 7. <http://windows7sins.org>
-മഹേഷ് മോഹന് എം.യു
Kenneth Gonsalves
> When I clicked the link, it is showing as "502 Bad Gateway".
>
try now - we were fixing a bug.
vid
>
> just completed a round of interviews and you may be interested to know that
> 60% of the successful candidates were women.
Nice to hear that.
> I am too lazy to use him/her, so
Words have great power, and you've been around long enough to
understand this better than most people that currently exist in the
Indian floss community. Since peers in a community set the path for
others to follow, i'd request less laziness in this regard, nor
fllippant responses (like above) which seek trivialise and dismiss a
genuine request. Its _not polite_ that a peer (un)knowingly reinforces
the stereotype that this is acceptable behaviour in a lug list or
Floss project.
--
|| vid | http://svaksha.com ||
Kingsly John
> > I am too lazy to use him/her, so
>
> Words have great power, and you've been around long enough to
> understand this better than most people that currently exist in the
> Indian floss community. Since peers in a community set the path for
> others to follow, i'd request less laziness in this regard, nor
> fllippant responses (like above) which seek trivialise and dismiss a
> genuine request. Its _not polite_ that a peer (un)knowingly reinforces
> the stereotype that this is acceptable behaviour in a lug list or
> Floss project.
http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=his
It is perfectly acceptable usage in english and doesn't always imply a sexist
bias. And there are plenty of such words like he, guys etc. And they are used
by women too and doesn't make them any less supportive of their own kind.
It helps to not view everything with tinted glasses and accusing someone of
trivialising gender issues / being flippant especially when you know he has
no such bias is definitely not polite either considering the rest of his mail
was very gender ambivalent.
Kingsly
PS: If you really want to pick on him for being gender insensitive in his
mail you should have picked on the term "viagra salesmen" :-p
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kingsly At Users Dot SourceForge Dot Net -- http://kingsly.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
vid
> http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=his
>
> It is perfectly acceptable usage in english and doesn't always imply a sexist
Its not, did you read the link you posted? It says:
<quote>
1. You use his to indicate that something belongs or relates to a man,
boy, or male animal.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[.....]
2. [...] Some people dislike this use and prefer to use `his or her'
or `their'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
</quote>
> bias. And there are plenty of such words like he, guys etc. And they are used
Nice logic...your claim that since the term "guys" is used to refer to
women too, makes it acceptable ; then the corollary should be
acceptable too : refer to a male as "gal".
> by women too and doesn't make them any less supportive of their own kind.
Ahem... Kingsly, are'nt you generalizing for a gender to which you do
not belong. Unless, some != all, the claim that women use it and hence
acceptable is _not_ true. I'd think its very weird for a group of only
women to refer to themselves as "guys" and I dont know any who do so,
unless there is an over whelming majority of men in the group too.
Here are some links for those interested in reading and understanding
why language and terminology are important :
http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/faq.html#gnp
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Nonsexist_language
> It helps to not view everything with tinted glasses and accusing someone of
> trivialising gender issues / being flippant especially when you know he has
> no such bias is definitely not polite either considering the rest of his mail
> was very gender ambivalent.
Strawman. Here is the moot point-- someone who (IMO) "gets" the
point, and could have chosen to end the thread with an additional 4
keystrokes for "/her" or "them" or any other GNP, still chooses to
brush off a request with "I am too lazy to use him/her". If that is
not a flippant response then what is?
> PS: If you really want to pick on him for being gender insensitive in his
> mail you should have picked on the term "viagra salesmen" :-p
Ah, that is left for the discerning eye that noticed it first. Its
your pick afterall :)
--
|| vid | http://svaksha.com ||
Kingsly John
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 23:19, Kingsly John <member...@kingsly.net> wrote:
> > http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=his
> >
> > It is perfectly acceptable usage in english and doesn't always imply a sexist
>
> Its not, did you read the link you posted? It says:
>
> <quote>
> 1. You use his to indicate that something belongs or relates to a man,
> boy, or male animal.
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> [.....]
> 2. [...] Some people dislike this use and prefer to use `his or her'
> or `their'.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> </quote>
Dictionary 101 - When a word has multiple meanings only one of them applies
in a particular context and not all of them.
And nice try at masking out the part where it says...
<quote>
2. In written English, his is sometimes used to refer to a person without saying
whether that person is a man or a woman.
</quote>
And when a certain usage is considered offensive/outdated the dictionary
marks them as "derogatory" or "archaic" etc and this usage is neither.
Also the part you quoted talks about personal preference. And it doesn't say
"Some people don't like it and they force others to use his/her"
And while we are at it, maybe the transgender crowd finds your choice of
"his/her" offensive too as they don't want to be identified as either.(The EC
has allowed them to be identified as "other" on voterIDs)
> > bias. And there are plenty of such words like he, guys etc. And they are
> > used
>
> Nice logic...your claim that since the term "guys" is used to refer to
> women too, makes it acceptable ; then the corollary should be acceptable
> too : refer to a male as "gal".
The point was that "guys" is acceptable usage for a "mixed group" I never
said anything about refering to "a female" as "guy"
> > by women too and doesn't make them any less supportive of their own kind.
>
> Ahem... Kingsly, are'nt you generalizing for a gender to which you do not
> belong. Unless, some != all, the claim that women use it and hence
> acceptable is _not_ true. I'd think its very weird for a group of only
> women to refer to themselves as "guys" and I dont know any who do so,
> unless there is an over whelming majority of men in the group too.
Again that is absolutely not what I said. The context here is
adjectives/pronouns for mixed groups.
At this rate we'll soon have people complaining about the fact that some
languages assign gender to inanimate objects.
Kingsly
vid
> Dictionary 101 - When a word has multiple meanings only one of them applies
> in a particular context and not all of them.
If you must get pedantic, lets rewind to the original statement, "...,
To date I have never looked at a candidate's certificates when
interviewing him -,..." to which Kenneth clarified that women do apply
and are employed, in which case my request to KG was to give credence
when due, especially when 60% of the succesfull candidates were women.
He replied with a "i'm lazy..." which _is_ a flippant response in
light of the other half (more actually) that was not even being
acknowledged. As small as pronouns are, they make a big difference in
this context. The half matters.
> And nice try at masking out the part where it says...
>
> <quote>
> 2. In written English, his is sometimes used to refer to a person without saying
> whether that person is a man or a woman.
> </quote>
Since you insist.... from the same source :
http://www.google.com/dictionary?hl=en&q=her&sl=en&tl=en&oi=dict_lk
<quote>
2. In written English, her is sometimes used to refer to a person
without saying whether that person is a man or a woman. Some people
dislike this use and prefer to use `him or her' or `them'.
</quote>
Did you have a point before quoting dict's ?
>
> And when a certain usage is considered offensive/outdated the dictionary
> marks them as "derogatory" or "archaic" etc and this usage is neither.
Speculation. I didnt use the terms : "offensive/outdated",
"degrogatory" or "archiac".
I was telling KG that I use gender-neutral terminology, so do read my
responses to KG again:
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/ce59e711f191a098?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/bdaf8928f5cd873c?hl=en
>
> Also the part you quoted talks about personal preference. And it doesn't say
> "Some people don't like it and they force others to use his/her"
Again,
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/ce59e711f191a098?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/bdaf8928f5cd873c?hl=en
I was quoting my personal prefs above so I'm curious on how did you
speculate and assume that KG was being forced ?
> And while we are at it, maybe the transgender crowd finds your choice of
> "his/her" offensive too as they don't want to be identified as either.(The EC
> has allowed them to be identified as "other" on voterIDs)
>
[..........]
>
> The point was that "guys" is acceptable usage for a "mixed group" I never
> said anything about refering to "a female" as "guy"
These were not even being discussed until you brought them into the
picture to bolster your argument that "his" was acceptable to refer to
women. I'd say not. I dont like being referred by a masculine
pronoun/adj.
> Again that is absolutely not what I said. The context here is
> adjectives/pronouns for mixed groups.
Glad we are back on track. As I said earlier, I still dislike being
referred by a masculine pronoun/adj, even when in a large group. Its
not inclusive. Largely, its unintentional and most people when told
politely ack and move on, instead of arguing ad hominem.
> At this rate we'll soon have people complaining about the fact that some
> languages assign gender to inanimate objects.
did we have any?
--
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Manish Chakravarty
Clearly the discussion going on in this thread right now has nothing to do with FWDE .
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Kingsly John
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 04:12, Kingsly John <member...@kingsly.net> wrote:
> > Dictionary 101 - When a word has multiple meanings only one of them applies
> > in a particular context and not all of them.
>
> If you must get pedantic, lets rewind to the original statement, "...,
> To date I have never looked at a candidate's certificates when
> interviewing him -,..." to which Kenneth clarified that women do apply
> and are employed, in which case my request to KG was to give credence
> when due, especially when 60% of the succesfull candidates were women.
> He replied with a "i'm lazy..." which _is_ a flippant response in
> light of the other half (more actually) that was not even being
> acknowledged. As small as pronouns are, they make a big difference in
> this context. The half matters.
There is really no point in this discussion if you are going to keep taking
words/phrases out of context, his original quote was...
"I am too lazy to use him/her, so I vary it."
If he'd chosen to go with "her" in this mail, I'd doubt you'd see any
reaction from the non-female members.
> > And nice try at masking out the part where it says...
> >
> > <quote>
> > 2. In written English, his is sometimes used to refer to a person without saying
> > whether that person is a man or a woman.
> > </quote>
>
> Since you insist.... from the same source :
> http://www.google.com/dictionary?hl=en&q=her&sl=en&tl=en&oi=dict_lk
>
> <quote>
> 2. In written English, her is sometimes used to refer to a person
> without saying whether that person is a man or a woman. Some people
> dislike this use and prefer to use `him or her' or `them'.
> </quote>
>
> Did you have a point before quoting dict's ?
Kenneth said he uses "her" too .. what exactly is *your* point?
> > And when a certain usage is considered offensive/outdated the dictionary
> > marks them as "derogatory" or "archaic" etc and this usage is neither.
>
> Speculation. I didnt use the terms : "offensive/outdated",
> "degrogatory" or "archiac".
> I was telling KG that I use gender-neutral terminology, so do read my
> responses to KG again:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/ce59e711f191a098?hl=en
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/bdaf8928f5cd873c?hl=en
That was only the first mail of yours which I didn't reply to.
The second one was no longer about "telling".
> > Also the part you quoted talks about personal preference. And it doesn't say
> > "Some people don't like it and they force others to use his/her"
>
> Again,
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/ce59e711f191a098?hl=en
> http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-bengaluru/msg/bdaf8928f5cd873c?hl=en
>
> I was quoting my personal prefs above so I'm curious on how did you
> speculate and assume that KG was being forced ?
You were asking him(and other peers?) to drop their writing style and adopt
yours.
"i'd request less laziness in this regard, nor
fllippant responses (like above) which seek trivialise and dismiss a
genuine request."
> > And while we are at it, maybe the transgender crowd finds your choice of
> > "his/her" offensive too as they don't want to be identified as either.(The EC
> > has allowed them to be identified as "other" on voterIDs)
> >
> [..........]
> >
> > The point was that "guys" is acceptable usage for a "mixed group" I never
> > said anything about refering to "a female" as "guy"
>
> These were not even being discussed until you brought them into the
> picture to bolster your argument that "his" was acceptable to refer to
> women. I'd say not. I dont like being referred by a masculine
> pronoun/adj.
Here we go again .. my point was that "his" was acceptable to refer to a
"mixed group" and in that context it isn't "masculine" and neither is "her"
feminine when used in the same context. But you clearly want to stick with
just one meaning of the word.
> > Again that is absolutely not what I said. The context here is
> > adjectives/pronouns for mixed groups.
>
> Glad we are back on track. As I said earlier, I still dislike being
> referred by a masculine pronoun/adj, even when in a large group. Its
> not inclusive. Largely, its unintentional and most people when told
> politely ack and move on, instead of arguing ad hominem.
English isn't a language where a word means one thing and only one thing
in all contexts. We have words like "set" which have over 200 meanings.
/me drops off from thread before ruining Manish('s) hunting season! ;-)
Manish Chakravarty
/me drops off from thread before ruining Manish('s) hunting season! ;-)
vid
>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 04:12, Kingsly John <member...@kingsly.net> wrote:
>> > Dictionary 101 - When a word has multiple meanings only one of them applies
>> > in a particular context and not all of them.
>>
[......snipped to the relevant contradiction between your earlier
statement and the one below]
>
> English isn't a language where a word means one thing and only one thing
> in all contexts. We have words like "set" which have over 200 meanings.
non sequitur.
> /me drops off from thread before ruining Manish('s) hunting season! ;-)
...hunting in winter!? goodluck Manish!
--
|| vid | http://svaksha.com ||