Government Digital Service, use of node.js in the UK

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Matthew Farwell

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Nov 5, 2012, 8:42:02 AM11/5/12
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Hi,

In the latest podcast (90), someone mentioned use of node.js on a government website in the UK. The only thing I can find is:


which talk about a dashboard written in node.js for the Cabinet Office. I wouldn't say that this constitutes (can't rememeber the exact words) 'the government portal for the UK'. Not saying it's not good, or anything like that, just that it's not big.

FYI, the Cabinet Office is the department run by the PM, which handles the business of the cabinet, the meetings of the ministers etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office.

One thing to remember is that the UK government has lots of websites, portals, IT infrastructure. It's bound to use almost every technology at least once, sometimes more than once.

Matthew Farwell.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 5, 2012, 3:34:13 PM11/5/12
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Not that site, it was https://www.gov.uk/ that I was told about. I'm still not entirely clear whether it is Node or not.
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Richard Vowles,
Grails, Groovy, Java, Javascript, AngularJS
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative - Oscar Wilde
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podcast: http://www.illegalargument.com

Rob Lally

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Nov 6, 2012, 5:03:02 PM11/6/12
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Here's a page on the site describing what the tools they're using:


Looking into their github repo : https://github.com/alphagov

They seem to have a lot of Ruby on Rails.

R.

PS (Oh, and hi, my name's Rob).

Richard Vowles

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Nov 6, 2012, 5:09:27 PM11/6/12
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I did read that the big PHP blog site that I can't remember off the top of my head was moving more and more of their code to javascript. Whether that means node i don't know.

Greg Amer

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Nov 6, 2012, 6:24:04 PM11/6/12
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So what you're saying Richard, is that node is the new playground for ex-php programmers? Ouch, that's a backhanded compliment if ever I've seen one.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 6, 2012, 7:05:40 PM11/6/12
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I think that is what you said right? When we discussed Clock (www.clock.co.uk I think) - who are a big nodejs shop. 

But as I said in the podcast, its one of the reasons I'm going to the conference. We are arguing (yet again) from a position of ignorance. 

Greg Amer

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Nov 6, 2012, 9:26:40 PM11/6/12
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Absolutely true. However at the moment, I'm feeling more and more empathy with the node/php/rails crowd where it is just get stuff down rather than the way the REST/Java/Static Typing crowd which seems to be more about building giant ivory towers rather than actually delivering value.

Greg Amer

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Nov 6, 2012, 9:27:19 PM11/6/12
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Or even getting stuff done.

Mark Derricutt

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Nov 6, 2012, 9:29:17 PM11/6/12
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I don't think it has anything at all to do with the Java/Static Typing crowd here - it's purely the REST nazis.

There's PLENTY of them in the node/ruby community.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 6, 2012, 9:40:38 PM11/6/12
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Maybe we need to do another recording tonight to capture this?

Mark Derricutt

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Nov 6, 2012, 10:22:51 PM11/6/12
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An UnscheduledException? I'm keen - it'll be an excuse to not go to the gym ;-)

Michael Neale

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Nov 11, 2012, 10:17:58 PM11/11/12
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Ironic as I listen to your podcasts at the gym almost exclusively. 

Mark Derricutt

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Nov 11, 2012, 10:54:17 PM11/11/12
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Oh god - so what you're saying is you get all hot and sweaty listening to my voice?

*shudder* :)

mP

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Nov 12, 2012, 7:03:30 PM11/12/12
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So what happens in 10 years time, when machines have 1000 cores, and your node server still only uses basically one ? Are you going to introduce 1000 servers and instead of simply sharing objects in the one VM, are you going to repeat the EJB bullshit and do everything over the wire ?

mP

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Nov 12, 2012, 7:09:03 PM11/12/12
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Im surprised Richard did not mention Fog Creeks Trello, it seems to include lots of fringe(j/k) technologies that he likes to explore.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 12, 2012, 8:04:02 PM11/12/12
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Do you think they might have solved the problem by then? I still don't know if VertX with its event loop and only 1 thread per core has the same problem.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 12, 2012, 8:04:22 PM11/12/12
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Isn't that that. Net guy?

mP

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Nov 12, 2012, 11:36:08 PM11/12/12
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On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:04:03 PM UTC+11, Richard Vowles wrote:

Do you think they might have solved the problem by then? I still don't know if VertX with its event loop and only 1 thread per core has the same problem.


Perhaps but the browser has been single threaded for over 10 years. Multi cores have been a standard on desktops for a while now, and there does not appear to be any attempt to make the JS host multi threaded. Before you say worker threads, that doesnt really count, firstly they are isolated in their own sandboxes away from the UI and secondly they hardly cooperate between themselves. The beast still remains single threaded, everyone is just running lots of hosts.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 12:11:24 AM11/13/12
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I'm not disagreeing with you! Its part of the reason I'm going to jsconfau - why the hell are all these people betting their livelihoods on a single-threaded single-core server????

Moandji Ezana

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Nov 13, 2012, 2:27:25 AM11/13/12
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On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 3:04 AM, Richard Vowles <ric...@bluetrainsoftware.com> wrote:

Do you think they might have solved the problem by then? I still don't know if VertX with its event loop and only 1 thread per core has the same problem.

I haven't really tested it, but the website says: "Unlike other popular event driven frameworks, Vert.x takes advantage of the JVM and scales seamlessly over available cores without having to manually fork multiple servers and handle inter process communication between them."

I also seem to remember the creator touting its use of multiple cores on a blog or something.

Moandji

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 3:03:48 AM11/13/12
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Yes, if you have 4 cores, you get 4 threads. But you still have an event loop, so...

Moandji Ezana

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Nov 13, 2012, 3:43:20 AM11/13/12
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If you only got 4 threads, what would be the point of immutable message-passing and using Hazelcast?

Moandji

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 4:25:37 AM11/13/12
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Because it sounds cool?

mP

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Nov 13, 2012, 4:42:00 AM11/13/12
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EJB was cool at one stage.

mP

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Nov 13, 2012, 4:44:18 AM11/13/12
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On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 4:11:25 PM UTC+11, Richard Vowles wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you! Its part of the reason I'm going to jsconfau - why the hell are all these people betting their livelihoods on a single-threaded single-core server????

Why do a lot of people, take drugs and fry their brains ? 

I might just pie you aka Bill Gates style if its in Darling Harbour :) NodeJs is the new 640k or one thread should be enuff for everyone.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 1:05:01 PM11/13/12
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And it was an important part of an evolution of understanding.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 1:06:18 PM11/13/12
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Now those would have made good t-shirt slogans.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 13, 2012, 1:24:26 PM11/13/12
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And the conference is in the Sydney town hall on Thursday, and Ill be wearing a tshirt with my name on it, and will be with a big tall red headed pirate colleague called Karl, so hopefully thats enough information for you to be able to find me easily. i expect my pie!

On Nov 13, 2012 10:44 PM, "mP" <miroslav...@gmail.com> wrote:

mP

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Nov 15, 2012, 5:19:08 PM11/15/12
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On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 5:24:28 AM UTC+11, Richard Vowles wrote:

And the conference is in the Sydney town hall on Thursday, and Ill be wearing a tshirt with my name on it, and will be with a big tall red headed pirate colleague called Karl, so hopefully thats enough information for you to be able to find me easily. i expect my pie!


Sorry, shit fell from the sky.

Richard Vowles

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Nov 15, 2012, 6:00:25 PM11/15/12
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I'm still here,  on the monorail at the moment.

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