[ANN] Iliad 0.9.4 is out

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Hello guys,

I have updated Iliad to load in Pharo 4. You can load it from the Configuration Browser. Here is a post with details:

http://80738163270632.blogspot.com/2015/04/iliad-094-is-out.html

(This update is only for Pharo, sorry for GNU-Smalltalk users I'm really busy)

Please report any issues you find, remember this is open source and everyone is invited to collaborate.

Cheers,

Hernán

[Germán Arduino]

Thanks Hernán!

I installed and start trying somethings and found an incompatiblity, easy to solve but still I want to comment, is about the use of the deprecated method #withFirstCharacterDownshifted that must be changed for #uncapitalized.

I can save the fixed version if you want, but do not know if have permissions in the STHub repo.

Cheers.

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[benoit]

Le 4/16/15 9:02 AM, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

> Hello guys,
>
> I have updated Iliad to load in Pharo 4. You can load it from the
> Configuration Browser. Here is a post with details:
>
> http://80738163270632.blogspot.com/2015/04/iliad-094-is-out.html

Thanks a lot Hernán !

> Please report any issues you find, remember this is open source and
> everyone is invited to collaborate.

Well, will try to update my apps to Pharo 4.

Things I want to work one day or another on Iliad are :
- updating to a more recent jquery version (hoppefully getting rid of
some javascript warnings I get on firefox) ;
- investigating the use of the session cookie : I just followed a
training course on web security and one thing I was taught is to use
Httponly on the session cookie and to not have it in any other params
(not exactly what's done in Iliad).

Benoit

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Gracias!
Added to http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad
:)

Hernán

[Germán Arduino]

Ok!

All fixed, new Iliad-Core updated and also the Configuration in the Iliad repo and also in the MetaRepo for Pharo 4. I did a quick installation test and all seems to be ok.

Cheers.

[Germán Arduino]

2015-04-16 19:34 GMT-03:00 benoit <benoit...@free.fr>:

  Things I want to work one day or another on Iliad are :
        - updating to a more recent jquery version (hoppefully getting rid of some javascript warnings I get on firefox) ;

This should be interesting indeed.

 

        - investigating the use of the session cookie : I just followed a training course on web security and one thing I was taught is to use Httponly on the session cookie and to not have it in any other params (not exactly what's done in Iliad).

I agree, this is very important, the use of httponly mitigates the risk of being exposed to xss attacks.

[benoit]

Hello Hernán,

it seems to me that the ILDatalistElement is missing, it was in
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-More-HTML5Elements.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.2
and not in
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~BenoitAstruc/Iliad/versions/Iliad-Core.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.16
like the ILCaptionElement.

I have begin written a new appli and I am willing to add some new
things to Iliad, but I wonder what's the vest way to do it : last year I
created an Iliad project on Smalltlakhub, crafted my version of
ConfigurationOfIliad and uploaded only packages I modified.
Looks like you merged them to get my additions, so easy for you. But
now I wonder how to update this project to be up to date with the
official one...

I really like to write apps in Pharo and with Iliad, but the
configuration management still puzzle me. Any advices ?

PS : rigth now I am working on two widgets, one is an "inPlaceEditor"
widget (like the js one, but using base mechanism of Iliad), and one is
a "tag selector" (a widget to let a user filter items based on required
and forbidden tags).

@+
Benoit

Le 4/16/15 9:02 AM, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

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[Hernán Morales Durand]

Hi Benoit,

Sorry for late reply, I've been too busy lately.

I added you as contributor in http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad/ (I don't like the official repository includes "hernan" so we can have some user like IliadProject in StHub soon)

Feel free to commit changes or fixes there, I will try them as soon as I can.

Let me know if something goes wrong with repo access.

Best regards,

Hernán

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[benoit]

Hi Hernán,

no harm done for late reply, I was just wondering if my email was
loast because I have some issues with provider.

Anyway, I confirm I can now write to
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad.
I just added :
Iliad-More-UI.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.5 (caption on ILDataGrid)
Iliad-More-HTML5Elements.0.9.1.3-BenoitAstruc.2 (html 5 datalist tag).

I didn't touch the ConfigurationOfIliad in case you want to keep
hands on it and because I don't know what are our versionning
conventions. By the way even for simple package I found a bit stranger
to keep 0.9.1.3...

I will commit later the two widgets I talked about.

I intend to make some commits only for adding comments to some
classes, is it ok for you ?

@+
Benoit

Le 11/14/15 6:42 AM, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

> Hi Benoit,
>
> Sorry for late reply, I've been too busy lately.
>
> I added you as contributor in
> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/Iliad/ (I don't like the official
> repository includes "hernan" so we can have some user like IliadProject
> in StHub soon)
> Feel free to commit changes or fixes there, I will try them as soon as I
> can.
>
> Let me know if something goes wrong with repo access.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Hernán
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-10 19:30 GMT-03:00 benoit <benoit...@free.fr

> <mailto:benoit...@free.fr>>:

[Steven Costiou]

  no harm done for late reply, I was just wondering if my email was loast because I have some issues with provider.

Hi,

your last messages were filtered by the google group spam control. This is why it took time to appear on the list.

I had to manually release them.

Nicolas and Sébastien are still owners of the group but are inactive and i am a group moderator. I added Hernan as moderator of the list so he can also manage the list.

Steven.

[benoit]

Hi,

I have an Iliad application with charset set to utf-8. Strings created
in Pharo with accentuated characters are well displayed.
However input typed in the application (editing a text field for
example), is not correctly saved in domain object.

On Pharo 3, I had the exact same issue and get away of it by deleting
two methods from GRPharoUtf8CodecStream. I thought at that time that
those methods (next and next:) were just optimizations methods and were
bugged.

On Pharo 4, I got back to a clean install and the issue reappeared. I
went to the same answer but this time deleting those two methods doesn't
change anything.

I fired a debugger and that's what I am seeing :
- in IliadKom in convertPostDataFrom: I can inspect and display the
value send by the browser and it is perfectly fine (as a ByteString) ;
- but then IliadKom try to convert the String by calling "aValue
convertToEncoding: self codec name" with "self codec name" getting us an
UTF8TextConverter ;
- and after that the accentuated characters in the converted string are
all f***.

Could be a bug in UTF8TextConverter, but I wonder if the error could
be on the Iliad side by calling a converter on String already in the
target encoding of the converter.

What do you think ?

By the way, Happy new year everyone,
Benoit

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Hi Benoit

I had issues with UTF-8 encoding with Grease before, can you send us some isolated code and steps to test your issue?

Because I wrote a configuration for Pharo 5 last week but all tests passed, so this is not covered by tests.

Cheers,

Hernán

[Hernán Morales Durand]

I halted #decodePostData: and tested the encoding conversion:

('hernán' convertToEncoding: 'utf-8') asByteArray = ((ZnCharacterEncoder newForEncoding: 'utf-8') encodeString: 'hernán')
('hernán' convertToEncoding: 'utf-8') convertFromEncoding: 'utf-8'.

and this gives <true> both in Pharo 4 and 5 with latest #stable Iliad.

The encoder seems to work fine, but I don't know, it could be an issue of the screen renderer in the image?

Hernán

[benoit]

Hi Hernán,

it took me a while to understand my error but I think I get it. I made
some tests starting with your example and read
http://files.pharo.org/books/enterprisepharo/book/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/Zinc-Encoding-Meta.html.

So basically what happened is that when I code a new app, I populate
first my object domain with code, thus having strings in Unicode. They
get displayed just fine without any code for encoding conversion on my part.
When I had an input field to my app, I store the string without any
conversion, as Iliad is giving it to me. And it happens that Iliad is
giving it to me in utf8 encoding. As I should have been aware.

What puzzle me is that Iliad need to do an encoding conversion before
giving me the string whereas I was thinking that the browser would send
me an utf-8 encoded string.

And as I find it better to store strings in Unicode (to be able to
play with it in the Pharo UI), it seems quite inefficient to have Iliad
doing an utf-8 encoding conversion first and then my code doing the
reverse...

So no bug in the encoding conversion, just something I didn't fully
understand. And I am still not sure to understand why it is done this way...

Thanks for the help,
Benoit

Le 1/3/16 11:21 PM, Hernán Morales Durand a écrit :

> I halted #decodePostData: and tested the encoding conversion:
>
> ('hernán' convertToEncoding: 'utf-8') asByteArray = ((ZnCharacterEncoder
> newForEncoding: 'utf-8') encodeString: 'hernán')
> ('hernán' convertToEncoding: 'utf-8') convertFromEncoding: 'utf-8'.
>
> and this gives <true> both in Pharo 4 and 5 with latest #stable Iliad.
> The encoder seems to work fine, but I don't know, it could be an issue
> of the screen renderer in the image?
>
> Hernán
>
>
> 2016-01-03 17:23 GMT-03:00 Hernán Morales Durand

> <hernan....@gmail.com <mailto:hernan....@gmail.com>>:

>
> Hi Benoit
>
> I had issues with UTF-8 encoding with Grease before, can you send us
> some isolated code and steps to test your issue?
>
> Because I wrote a configuration for Pharo 5 last week but all tests
> passed, so this is not covered by tests.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hernán
>
>
> 2016-01-03 8:41 GMT-03:00 benoit <benoit...@free.fr

> <mailto:benoit...@free.fr>>:

> <mailto:iliad%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>

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[benoit]

Hi guys,

two weeks ago, I was on Pharo Days 2017. There I had the chance to
meet and talk with another Iliad user.
As we talked, it quickly becames obvious that Iliad seems rather dead,
even if some people are still using it and some are still pushing code.

So first, I wanted to write that Iliad is still working with Pharo 5.0
even if there hasn't been a release to officialize the thing.

And second, that there has been some activité since the last release
(in april 2015) and since the last official Configuration (in december
2015). I made a list at the end of this message.

So I was thinking to at least make a new Configuration file, and I was
wondering if anyone would be interested by a new "official" release.
Either on Pharo 5 target or a bit more later on Pharo 6 target ?


Bug Fixes :
- debug and verbose mode is now working ;
- missing printing of text value in #printHtmlOn: for radio button ;
- a fix to iliadJs (see mailing list, didn't found that one) ;
- a typo in Session>>preferenceAt: ;
- "subStrings" (deprecated in Pharo 5.0) has been replaced by "substrings".


Enhancements :
- some ILDataGrid enhancements ;
- ILRadioButtonField has been added to Formula ;
- attributes and events for making draggable elements have been added ;
- Hernan has been working on a File browser widget (not sure of the
exact status however) and made improvements in various places related to
file uploading ;
- I have submit an ILInPlaceWidget (but I am not happy with it and plan
to replace it soon) ;
- and some comments, refactoring and even a test case where added/made
to the code.

@+
Benoit

[Thiago Lino]

Hi Benoit.

Thanks for your work. Iliad stills my favorite web framework. It just works.
Do you have public project with it?

I just downloaded it in pharo5. Maybe we need an upgrade to a new jQuery.

Again, thanks for maintain this project.

[benoit]

Le 06/06/17 à 18:55, Thiago Lino a écrit :

> Hi Benoit.
>
> Thanks for your work. Iliad stills my favorite web framework. It just works.
> Do you have public project with it?

Well, yes and no.
You can found all my code on smalltalkhub (user BenoitAstruc). But
nothing of it is really worth sharing : from a user point of view my web
apps aren't polished enough. And from a dev point of view, well I am
quite ashamed of my code (and too much french in it I fear).

Anyway, there is :
- Sisyphe is some kind of task reminder, which was my first Iliad
application but is running only on Pharo 3 ;
- Clafouti is a tool to manage tabletop wargame miniature (think
Warhammer 40,000) and building army list, it's running on Pharo 4 and is
my more finished application (I am using it, and quite happy with what I
was able to do on this one, but now having using it I want to redo some
parts of it) ;
- Nubo is my own framework/library of widgets built on top of Iliad ;
- Kultivado if one of the two projects I am currently working on, it
will be a tool for helping organic produce grower to do crop rotation.

> I just downloaded it in pharo5. Maybe we need an upgrade to a new jQuery.

Indeed we need. I tried to do it with Pharo 4.0 but it crashed every
time. I have to check but it's possible that the issue is the size of
latest 1.x jQuery is too big to be stored in one string like it's
actually done.

@+
Benoit

[benoit]

Le 06/06/17 à 22:57, benoit a écrit :

>> I just downloaded it in pharo5. Maybe we need an upgrade to a new jQuery.
>
> Indeed we need. I tried to do it with Pharo 4.0 but it crashed every
> time. I have to check but it's possible that the issue is the size of
> latest 1.x jQuery is too big to be stored in one string like it's
> actually done.

Well I just tried and was able to load a jQuery v1.11.1 into
ILJavaScriptsDirectory on Pharo 5. I escaped all ' and it mostly works
out of the box. But I think there are a few issues. I will try to
address them before commit it.

@+
Benoit

[Steven Costiou]

Hi,

as Benoit summarized our discussion at Pharo Days, the feeling is that Iliad is dead. There is no community. Only a few users working on their private projects and barely sharing anything.

Nevertheless, Iliad is very simple and very efficient for building small web apps with no super-fancy-trendy-web-things. I love Iliad. I will continue to use it.

My question is:

- as the project is dead as is: no planned evolution, no perspectives

- as there is no active community, so there are no constraints

Could we not take it at our advantage and build our own tool that does what we want ? And by we, i mean, i'm speaking about what... 5 persons ?

- There would not be any impact, nobody uses Iliad

- We would have what we want or need: a useful tool and fun building it

- If by any luck the community starts growing, which never happened in the first place (i'm guessing current users of Iliad are the original users since 2009), well we'll see if we get there but right now i do not really care

But we'd need skills to be able to evolve Iliad, time (most challenging problem imo...) and ambition to know where we want to go.

So in addition to Benoit's question:

- who would be, hypothetically, interested by a common work on Iliad and producing new versions of it ?

- what are your needs with Iliad ?

I myself need to think about my needs (too late for that, it's time to sleep), but i think i'd like to take iliad and start doing new stuff with it.

I have made many projects with it, not a lot survived the years. The two following projects (see the attached screenshots) are in production and this is iliad stuff i'm working on when i find the time: qbib, a tool to manage my research bibliography. It does not do all the powerful things that modern bib tools do, buuut i can do whatever i want with my data ! I generate reports, latex files, research paper drafts, etc. The other project is an artistic card game for a friend who is editing a physical deck and do exhibitions of his art.

Steven.

@+
Benoit

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[benoit]

Hello Steven,

I would like to have the opinion of Hernan on this subject. He's the
"official" maintainer from my point of view.
He gave me the rights to write on his repo on SmalltalkHub after I
made some patchs but to this day I have only used it to little things
and I keep all experimental work in my own project.

As it should be quite obvious I am interested in producing new
versions of Iliad. But time is a big factor, and we should take care of
having a policy to decide what to include and what not if we get very
distinct contributions...

My needs with Iliad are quite special : I use it to make mono user web
applications (think owncloud apps). So I need to let the user be able to
change lots of things without coding. I want to let the user, from his
browser do thoses things :
- moving widgets (hence my work on drag and drop support) ;
- modiying the css ;
- modiying all non-input text (think translation mecanism) ;
- sharing contents (adding urls to sub parts of the app).

Now for what I think Iliad need :
- upgrade to newer versions of jQuery => I am testing jQuery
1.12.4, some things are broken, I need to investiguate more (not nice
cause it's javascript code and not smalltalk
- release a version tagged for Pharo 5 (to get visibility) => I can
work on that ;
- a website, or at least more public code to show how to use it
(allmost all my code is public, but not really of good quality) ;
- release a version tagged for Pharo 6 => not sure when I will go
to Pharo 6 myself, so...
- switch from KomHttpServer to Zinc one => I think it will be
usefull to avoid bitrotting and to get better integration with other
pharo tools (oh, that's actually something we need to discuss : which
platform Iliad should support ? I use only Pharo) ;
- some work on the security part, I am quite sure that the way
Iliad handle sessions needs to be made more secure.

@+
Benoit


Le 07/06/17 à 00:02, Steven Costiou a écrit :

[H. Hirzel]

Hello

I wonder what happened to
http://www.iliadproject.org/

It seems that currently

http://80738163270632.blogspot.com/2015/04/iliad-094-is-out.html

is the entry point to find out about Iliad. And it is probably worth
asking on the Squeak list as well if people are interested in a new
release.

--Hannes

> --
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[benoit]

Hello all,

after some more tests, it seems the only thing not working in Iliad
with jQuery 1.12.4 is the test for detecting IE version < 9 :

ie67 = jQuery.browser.msie && parseInt(jQuery.browser.version) < 8;

I think the correct way of doing this would be to test exactly the
feature we need, but I don't know which one it is and don't have the
time to found it (well and can't either, I don't have IE -nor Windows-
at home).

So I am leaning to keep the ie67 var and just change the method to
value it. The internet[1] is giving me at least three ways to do it :
- using conditionnal html comments ;
- parsing the user agent string ;
- testing the support for specific standard object.

I am leaning towards the last one with something like that :

ie67 = document.all && !document.querySelector;

Would be that ok for everyone ?

@+
Benoit

[1]
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10964966/detect-ie-version-prior-to-v9-in-javascript#10965091
and http://tanalin.com/en/articles/ie-version-js/

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Hi Steven,

2017-06-06 19:02 GMT-03:00 Steven Costiou <steven....@gmail.com>:

Hi,

as Benoit summarized our discussion at Pharo Days, the feeling is that Iliad is dead. There is no community. Only a few users working on their private projects and barely sharing anything.

That's exactly the situation right now.

 

Nevertheless, Iliad is very simple and very efficient for building small web apps with no super-fancy-trendy-web-things. I love Iliad. I will continue to use it.

My question is:

- as the project is dead as is: no planned evolution, no perspectives

- as there is no active community, so there are no constraints

Could we not take it at our advantage and build our own tool that does what we want ? And by we, i mean, i'm speaking about what... 5 persons ?

- There would not be any impact, nobody uses Iliad

- We would have what we want or need: a useful tool and fun building it

- If by any luck the community starts growing, which never happened in the first place (i'm guessing current users of Iliad are the original users since 2009), well we'll see if we get there but right now i do not really care

Totally agree with your comments. Planning requires time we simply do not have.

On the other side Seaside mailing-list traffic has declined too, being Seaside a "software product" much more active in the Smalltalk world. So this is not only affecting Iliad but maybe Smalltalk in general.

 

But we'd need skills to be able to evolve Iliad, time (most challenging problem imo...) and ambition to know where we want to go.

So in addition to Benoit's question:

- who would be, hypothetically, interested by a common work on Iliad and producing new versions of it ?

- what are your needs with Iliad ?

I myself need to think about my needs (too late for that, it's time to sleep), but i think i'd like to take iliad and start doing new stuff with it.

I have made many projects with it, not a lot survived the years. The two following projects (see the attached screenshots) are in production and this is iliad stuff i'm working on when i find the time: qbib, a tool to manage my research bibliography. It does not do all the powerful things that modern bib tools do, buuut i can do whatever i want with my data ! I generate reports, latex files, research paper drafts, etc. The other project is an artistic card game for a friend who is editing a physical deck and do exhibitions of his art.

Thanks for sharing the screenshots. May we use it as "sucess case" in the style of http://pharo.org/success

For now I created a GitHub project page:

https://iliadproject.github.io/

Let me know if you want to be added as collaborators then you can start to push content for the web site.

Let's move one step at the time.

Cheers,

Hernán