OBC Reservation applicable to IIMs ???

[rohit choudhry]

Hi,
I read the supreme court judgment ( http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.aspx?filename=31232 ) & to me, it seems that reservations are not applicable for PG courses. I quote from para 273 of the judgment:

" Once a candidate graduates from a university, he must be
considered educationally forward.  Senior counsel for petitioners,
Mr. P.P. Rao, contended that those who have completed Plus 2
should be considered educationally forward.  In other words,
they would no longer be eligible for reservation in university or
post-graduate studies.  There is some force in this argument
where only 18% in the relevant age-group have completed Plus 2. 
From this vantage point, this means that they are educationally
elite.  But the answer to most questions in law is not so simple. 
The answer often depends on the circumstances surrounding the
issue.  In the marketplace, a candidate who has completed
higher secondary education cannot be considered "forward".  The
real value of the higher secondary degree is that it is a
prerequisite for college admissions.  The general quality of
education imparted upto Plus 2 is of extremely indifferent quality
and apart from that, today some entry-level Government
positions only accept college graduates. One is educationally
backward until the candidate has graduated from a university. 
Once he has, he shall no longer enjoy the benefits of reservation. 
He is then deemed educationally forward.  For admission into
Master's programmes, such as, Master of Engineering, Master of
Laws, Master of Arts etc., none will be a fortiori eligible for
special benefits for admission into post graduation or any further
studies thereafter.   "

Wat do you guys think? If this is the case, Why are the IIMs delaying the results? Surely they can figure out this much from this judgment. Or did I interpret it wrong?

Rohit

[Abhinav Sarangi]

your interpretation was correct... what you did not do was meditate upon the fact that at 1:00 in the night you are busy interpreting the 500 page long SC judgement, but the ppl at IIM are busy sleeping... after all they do this every year... give calls that is... what is a matter of a few days, they can afford to delay the whole thing, (and going by last year they are even getting good at it)... so they will take a few days, drink tea, eat samosas or whatever they eat in Ahd, and finally come to the same conclusion...

So we can just relax for the next few days... and eat our own samosas and cold drink at Alpahar ( good, i am hungry now... :)...)

Anyways... check out the PG thread, the topic has been fully dissected by fellow CAT aspirants like you, who have burned midnight oil (read tubelight) and given the RC passage treatment to the SC judgement and even answered a few questions on their own... (like the guys at CL used to suggest...)

Abhinav

P.S. this was meant to be funny... if it is not, then i m too drunk, n you are too sober...

2008/4/11 rohit choudhry <choudhr...@gmail.com>:

--
Abhinav Sarangi
B.Tech (IV) year
Metallurgical and Materials Engg.
IIT Roorkee

[rohit choudhry]

Don't worry dear, It is funny.
btw, the judgment is 109 pages, not 500 pages & all I did was:
I heard a lawyer on TV say "para 273",  downloaded the doc, went to the para 273 & read it :P

And the reason I'm doing it at 1 in the night is that I'm @ home, everybody is asleep n I have nothing better to do.

Rohit

[Ankit Kapoor]

good luck!

[Ankit Kapoor]

yeh log results kab denge??
some ghissu was telling me ki B waalon ne obc ke interviews hi nahin liye hain,n the only alternative is ki woh phir se interviews conduct karein aur usmein pata nahin kitna time lagega..
Kya moronic country hai... mera next month isi ka entrance hai, hopefuly usse pehle de dein to accha hai.vaise kisi ke paas koi authentic info ho kabhi to batana.

[Rohit Dangayach]

guys...relax
what is happening with u guys probably happened with us too...some pain of reservations happen every year...i guess thats the govt's way of telling us that they are there for us :P
or may b a style to welcome us!
our result got delayed by ard 10-12 days (correct me if i m wrong)...it might take longer...noone really knows how this drama would unfold
i suggest that u keep preparing for the ISI exam...tahts a good option n dont just mess up ur preps (if u r preparing) waiting for the result
i had to join a project at E&Y Delhi coz the results got delayed n had really tough 2 months in the scorching heat of Delhi coz i cldnt have left midway...just didnt want to remember that time, but for ur mail... :( 
i cld have done what not in those 2 months...

chalo...good luck for ur results n whatever lies ahead!

Cheers,
Rohit

--


Warm Regards,

Rohit Dangayach
Post Graduate Programme in Management (2007-2009)
G-203, Hostel Blocks | Indian Institute of Management Bangalore
Bannerghatta Road | Bangalore | Karnataka | 560 076 | India
Phone: +91 99169 50193 |Alt. e-mail: rohi...@iimb.ernet.in

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

I'm in a quandary. I got through the BM & PMIR programmes of XLRI, Jamshedpur. They've sent the joining letter and asked for the first installment of fees to be deposited by 21 April, 2008, failing which the admission will stand cancelled. Now if the IIM results do not come out before that, what should I do?

Seniors might be having an idea as to whether the other institutes also shifted their dates in accordance with the delay in IIM results, last year. Please SOS :(

--
Prakash Deep Maheshwari
Senior
Computer Science & Engineering
IIT-Roorkee

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

Adding to what I wrote in the last mail.

I have calls from BLIK. In all probability, my preference order, at this moment stands at IIM-B,XLRI,L,I,K. I would prefer taking up my job @ Microsoft or join XL instead of joining I or K.  If my IIM-B call clears, its the best case and I'll be happily joining B. If it does not, I'm not sure which to choose among placement, XL and IIM-L. As of now, XL is on the top with placement in the middle.

Seniors (& fellow CAT aspirants, your help would be most welcome as well), Is my choice of XL over IIM-L and Microsoft job correct? Or would I be better off taking an year of work-ex and writing CAT again and try my luck at A,B,C?

Joining XL this year would mean I have to send out the draft by tomorrow (since a long weekend is coming up). So, I would really appreciate if you can post in your replies at the earliest. Plzzzzz..

For quick reference, here are the placement stats of XL. Seniors, can you please tell if they are good enough with respect to the IIMs?

• Highest Domestic Salary stood at Rs 32 Lakhs per annum



• Average Domestic Salary stood at Rs 14.75 Lakhs per annum



• Median Domestic Salary stood at Rs 14.5 Lakhs per annum



• A total of 12 international offers were made



• Average International salary stood at $90,000 USD

Type	Offers	Offers %
Consultancy	64	21.48%
Finance	92	30.87%
General Mgmt.	39	13.09%
Marketing	69	23.15%
IT/ITes	34	11.41%
TOTAL	298	100%

[anuj jain]

Hi prakash,

 

i'm frm iiml....dont worry, wont give biased answer to ur question....i'll try to present it logical if i cud.

 

See the most imp factor is the brand name - IIM. It would surely make a major difference.

Secondly the placemnts were pretty good and bettter than XL i guess...i dunno whr u got the reports frm, but we had highest dom salary of 50 lakh. and i guess more international offers too...So placement concern is not an issue.

 

Regarding job, though freshers hav at times upper hand during summers cos they r easily adjusted to any type of wrk, as compared to work ex ppl. But final placements work ex ppl hav upper hand (we have HEPP-placements for ppl havin work ex more than a year).

 

But most of the people get PPO's during their summers....

 

I also had been in ur position, and i was unable to attend my XL interview, but my personal decision was IIML over both job(had a consulting job) as well as XL...That is what i feel...not necessary u agree with me... :D

--
ANUJ JAIN
IIM Lucknow,
Contact No- +91-9718228346
+91-9956851687

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

Hi anuj,

Thanks for the valuable info and advice. Just to be a li'l clear, Supposing I don't get thru either B or L this year, acc. to you, I'd be better off writing CAT next year than joining XL this year?

[rohit choudhry]

PDM,
yaar ye saari situations kyon imagine kar raha hai With your kind of incredible acads & IIMB's focus on acads, there's absolutely no way they are rejecting you.
About the B/L/XL/Microsoft thing, I think you should look more at how many of the firms you are willing to join visit each of these campuses rather than these salary figures. I assume you will only be looking at big ticket IBs/Consults. From what I know, (& I may be wrong, plz verify), while all of these IBs/Consults visit B, a few visit L & almost none visit XL.

Rohit

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:23 PM, anuj jain <anuj....@gmail.com> wrote:

[anuj jain]

See yar, if u r confident enough to crack CAT again, then go for it next time. Its not like i'm doubting your capability, but wht i'm tryin to say is tht one should know its strength and weakness.like i was thinkin whether to join I if i didnt get thru L. nd i decided that i wud take cat again instead of joinin I. so depends very much on u. Still i wud recommend u to take advice frm others too.....

[anuj jain]

i guess rohit is right...dont worry...all of u wud go where u wish to... the best....so chill out ...nd hav fun......njoy

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

Thanks Rohit & Anuj.

@Rohit, according to the XL site, big ticket consultancy firms (BCG, McKinsey) and IBs (Lehman, DB, Goldman) do visit the XL campus. But they haven't mentioned any figures about how many have they actually recruited in the past. Is there anyone you (or anyone else) may know of in XL who can give these details? (Sorry to be nipticking :( )

@Anuj, I guess placements for this year would've completed by now. Can you tell how many (& which) IBs and Consultancy firms visited the L campus this year and how many offers did they give ?

[anuj jain]

yar actually we had better summers as wel as final placements. see most of the ppl got PPO's or were in HEPP. Barclay, Mickensy, BNP paribas, Citibnk hongkong, Lehman,goldamn,DB, AT kearney..either gave PPO's to more or less all summers or Came for finals. Even all I banks in India came thr...with pretty good profiles also...the actual stats i cant recall but micknsey took 5, ATK took 3-4 nd somethin like tht...cant recal all as many came for HEPP also...

[Abhinav Sarangi]

PDM
First of all, i agree with Rohit that you will surely get through IIMB... but that does not solve the problem... so i will get back to the problem...

i feel if not IIMB... then you should join Microsoft... (it may turn out to be very different from the internship)... and then give CAT again... and go for the IIMs... brand name always matters... and XLRI, for all its placement stats... still does not measure up to the big 3 IIMs...
yah job pasand aa gayi to... Harvard will be only too glad to take you.. :)

2008/4/16 anuj jain <anuj....@gmail.com>:

[rohit choudhry]

PDM,
The profiles & the packages these IBs offer at XL & at the top IIMs is very very different. Since I did my intern with GS, I know for sure that the  GS that goes to XL is  GS  Bangalore, & the package & the profile are much lower than what GS NY/London et al offer at IIMs ABC(I dunno  if GS  global offices go to L). By now, probably GS Mumbai might have started recruiting at XL, though I even doubt that.

I am not sure about other banks, but I believe that they do the same. Only the India offices recruit at XL to the best of my knowledge.

@ Anuj: The Goldman u talked about at L, is it GS GIR (bangalore), or GS Bombay or one of the global offices?

Rohit

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

Thanks Abhinav & Rohit.

@sarangi, abey harvard to humein kyun lega? But your point is well taken. One of reasons why I did not reject the PPO from MS and sit for no-tech jobs like Citi or Lehman (apart from the fact that I might not have got thru them and then landed in a no-man's land) was the thing you mentioned - "it may turn out to be very different from the internship"

@Rohit, Thanks for the info. Have great amount of food for thought now :)

[Ankit Kapoor]

arre PDM/P sa'ab.. tumhari B mein to sirf formality tha, tumhen sirf attendance laga kar aani thi:)
ek-dum concise ans:)

[Rohit Dangayach]

PDM

well...if I may, I would have just one thg to say..try to keep IIML over XLRI for sure. 2 reasons - IIM Brand(long term) & better  placements(short term consideration)

well...i joined NITIE when I screwed up my CAT, completed my first yr and then joined IIMB...may be just because I was bored of my job n wanted a major change...but i must tell u, it was a bad decision to join a non-IIM...i shd have taken a risk (my take on it now)
my cousin moved from XLRI(had got AIG mumbai for summers) to IIMC after 1 yr and is joining JPM HK(Internship n then PPO) which does not visit the XLRI campus...if at all, it would be their Mumbai office

n if ur acads are good n PPO n all, u have a high chance of converting B unless u really mess up ur interview, which you havent (AFAIK)

btw I heard from someone that XLRI returned the fee for ppl who decided to join IIMs and had deposited the first installment at XLRI...but i would advise you to verify it again

Hope to c u at B :)

Regards
Rohit

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

Thanks Rohit for your valuable opinion and info. I had just one query - you mentioned that the IIM brand helps in the long run. But doesn't the effect of "what college you earned you degree from" water down as you progress in your career? I mean, an IIIM tag might help you get an initial launch pad, but after (say 5 yrs) that, its your perforrmance at the job which takes you ahead. Correct me if I am wrong.

I sincerely wish I could've agreed with you on the "really messing up my B interview part", but I did indeed MESS it up. I played into the hands of the professors who were trying to stress me out, and despite all my preparations, I managed to get woefully stressed. The only solace is that B has a lesser weight for the interview as opposed to the other IIMs.

I too really really hope to c u @ B :)

@all, just got to know that a meeting of IIT directors with MHRD took place & IITs are going to implement the quota in a phased manner (9% each year) while the 3 new IITs will have to implement it in one go from the beginning. I hope better sense prevails and the IIMs come up with a similar or better solution asap and declare their results. Amen!

[Ankit Kapoor]

@pdm
arre itni jyada fight mat lo bhai, n DONT waste any money by sendin
some draft to xl. Tumhen B profs isliye tang kar rahe honge coz tumne
gd phod-phad diya hoga,suna hai tumhare gd mein to battle of
presidents tha aur baki log darre darre baithe the.

> > > > mentioned - *"it may turn out to be very different from the
> > > > internship"
> > > >
> > > > *@Rohit, Thanks for the info. Have great amount of food for thought

> > > > > > > > > > > > - Highest Domestic Salary stood at Rs 32 Lakhs
> > > > > > > > > > > > per annum
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Average Domestic Salary stood at Rs 14.75
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lakhs per annum
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Median Domestic Salary stood at Rs 14.5 Lakhs
> > > > > > > > > > > > per annum
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - A total of 12 international offers were made
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Average International salary stood at $90,000
> > > > > > > > > > > > USD
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Type Offers Offers % *Consultancy* 64 21.48% *
> > > > > > > > > > > > Finance* 92 30.87% *General Mgmt.* 39 13.09% *
> > > > > > > > > > > > Marketing* 69 23.15% *IT/ITes* 34 11.41% *TOTAL* 298

> http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.aspx?filename=31232) & to me, it

[Rohit Dangayach]

Dear PDM

Yes ...u r wrong;)
... in assuming that your work takes u ahead 5 yrs down the line....thats a v v blunt statement n u will have to pardon me for that
everyone would work...trust me
some might be better...but for 2 ppl performing equally well, the one from better background gets the advantage
also, in client facing roles, IIM (read branded) junta is preferred
i have spoken to a lot of ppl about it coz i was at nitie n wanted to finish my MBA as i had plans to work for just 4-5 yrs..thought it wont matter much
its the alumni network that pulls you up IF YOU PERFORM n gets u the contacts and funding if you wana do your business
HARD WORK N PERFORMANCE GOES WITHOUT SAYING...woh to karna ho hoga

i have been in touch with ppl from non IITs/ IIMs who might be having more caliber that may b an IIT / IIM guy, but losing on that one day costs you a lot during your lifetime

hope it clarifies

n btw my B interview was also painful
one of the prof even made me say that India is known for IITs and IIMs ...what a mess
i  stopped there, changed my stance,  spoke n tried not to give an opportunity to the prof who was tryn to pain me n looked at the other prof who asked me about work ex n kept on asking coz i gave him professional (read interesting) answers n somehow managed :)
prof was from strategy n i gave him a lot of gyan on strat which he might have liked ( i m assuming that now that i m there :) )
my 10th n 12th marks are not so gr8 as urs...n with 1 yr at NITIE n this kinda messy interview, i got thru
so u definitely stand a good chance...of course there is no guarantee...but it shd work out

lemme know if u need more gyan :D

Regards
Rohit

[Prakash Deep Maheshwari]

@Rohit, thnx. will certainly bug you for more gyaan :P

@all, thnx a ton for taking time out to consider my situation and giving your valuable inputs/suggestions/advices/experiences/blah blah... I really appreciate the help coming from you people and it certainly helped me make an informed decision that I hope I won't regret in the future.

Special token of thanks to Abhishek, the 2 Rohit(s) (Chaudhary & Dangayach), Anuj, Sarangi, Sheetal (her advice came through chat, instead of the grp mail) and Captain (Ankit Kapoor, for dropping in invaluably valuable text-bites :P). Bhagwan aapko aur aapke baal-bachchon ko sukhi rakhe :D