PCC/QRPH Committees - October 2024 F2F Meeting

[Bell, Sarah]

See agenda here (click to October 2024 Tab): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l-ELWxmlfnIluh_zfU3D09w9J0gtZKB6p8EqF-r5Niw/edit?pli=1&gid=1901890903#gid=1901890903

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[Bell, Sarah]

[Bell, Sarah]

[Jenny Thompson]

mADX work item attached.

One discussion topic feedback was given on was related to the FHIR version.

 

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[John Stamm]

Charles,

 

This is a side effect of building profiles on non-normative standards.  Doing so also prevents us from moving these to final text.

 

Now that some of FHIR has become normative, that risk is mitigated somewhat.  But I do think that for the foreseeable future, individual specifications from IHE are going to be vulnerable to changes in the base specification forcing updates.

 

Thanks,

-John

 

From: cha...@interopehealth.com <cha...@interopehealth.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2024 11:48 AM
To: 'Jenny Thompson' <jtho...@path.org>; 'Bell, Sarah' <Sarah...@himss.org>; pcc...@googlegroups.com; pcc...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; afou...@ehealthsign.com; 'Lori L. Reed-Fourquet' <lfou...@ehealthsign.com>; John Stamm <jst...@epic.com>
Cc: 'CORMAN, Constantin' <cor...@who.int>
Subject: RE: IHE Quality Plan: Re: PCC/QRPH Committees - October 2024 F2F Meeting

 

External Mail. Careful of links / attachments. Submit Helpdesk if unsure.

 

This one more in a longer list of examples that demonstrates that FHIR seems far from being a ready-to-implement standard.

Am I correct to deduct from this excellent work from IHE QRPH, that the life expectancy of a profile based on FHIR in 2021 becomes obsolete in 2024 ?

 

Charles

 

 

De : iheqr...@googlegroups.com <iheqr...@googlegroups.com> De la part de Jenny Thompson
Envoyé : mercredi 23 octobre 2024 09:02
À : Bell, Sarah <Sarah...@himss.org>; pcc...@googlegroups.com; pcc...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; afou...@ehealthsign.com; Lori L. Reed-Fourquet <lfou...@ehealthsign.com>; jst...@epic.com
Cc : CORMAN, Constantin <cor...@who.int>
Objet : IHE Quality Plan: Re: PCC/QRPH Committees - October 2024 F2F Meeting

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[cha...@interopehealth.com]

John,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I understand the issue.

Can this be mitigated by having an IHE assessment for the vulnerability of the candidate FHIR resources ?

 

There is also a now rather common case, where a normative resource is being hit when moving from a FHIR release to the next one.

The R4 to R5 move was rather disastrous for some resources.  Is that acceptable ?

 

Charles

 

De : 'John Stamm' via IHE QRPH Planning Committee <iheqr...@googlegroups.com>
Envoyé : jeudi 31 octobre 2024 15:31
À : cha...@interopehealth.com; 'Jenny Thompson' <jtho...@path.org>; 'Bell, Sarah' <Sarah...@himss.org>; pcc...@googlegroups.com; pcc...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; afou...@ehealthsign.com; 'Lori L. Reed-Fourquet' <lfou...@ehealthsign.com>
Cc : 'CORMAN, Constantin' <cor...@who.int>
Objet : RE: IHE Quality Plan: Re: PCC/QRPH Committees - October 2024 F2F Meeting

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iheqrphplan/SJ0PR17MB5654835346E41D445D0B2710A6552%40SJ0PR17MB5654.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.

[Derek Ritz]

Hi Charles, hi all – Charles, you have definitely hit on an important point. What we may want to do, however, is to turn the conversation around 180-degrees and posit an answer to the question: “what is the benefit for IHE to be profiling non-normative HL7 FHIR standards?” To be blunt – if we don’t have a good answer to this question, then we should stand back and wait for FHIR to be normative and stable (r6 maybe?) and do our profiling work when this is the case.

 

I’d suggest that there are some very good reasons for IHE to continue to engage, as we have been, in profiling still-nascent FHIR specs:

• Many FHIR specifications cannot and will not progress up the maturity scale until they are more implementable. IHE’s efforts assist in this process. It is true, it has not been IHE’s traditional role to work with standards that are “in progress” – but when IHE develops profiles of still-nascent FHIR specifications, it “steps upstream” and plays a contributory role in HL7’s work of developing the base standard. Many in HL7 appreciate this important contribution (some don’t seem to… but, really, that’s just human nature and it should not deter us).
• Many jurisdictions are also trying to leverage non-normative FHIR specs in their implementation projects. Canada Health Infoway (among many others) is embracing non-normative specs as part of a national digital health “roadmap” initiative. Infoway and IHE Canada and HL7 Canada are all working diligently to help progress the base standard(s). IHE’s role – through its Deployment committees – is to help specifications be taken to scale. We make a huge contribution to our jurisdictional stakeholders (Canada, WHO, Europe, etc.) when we develop and publish implementable, conformance-testable specifications based on these underlying FHIR specs. Our Projectathon and Connectathon events help jurisdictions exert governance… and the governed adoption of modern, innovative, FHIR-based digital health solutions can positively impact population health. This is a very important outcome.

 

You ask in your email, whether it is “acceptable” that we continue to work with still-nascent FHIR specs. Given the important ways we can contribute, as an SDO, I think it might be just as possible to ask whether it would be acceptable for IHE to not be an active participant in helping FHIR to successfully mature and be taken up, at scale. In working with non-normative FHIR specs (or even normative ones, as you note in your r4 vs r5 comment!), our methods must change… this is true. It seems to me, however, that IHE’s mission is well-served by such efforts.

 

Warmest regards,

Derek

 

Derek Ritz, P.Eng, CPHIMS-CA

ecGroup Inc.

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[John Hodgson]

Can someone please remove me from this group. Thanks 

John Hodgson

612.709.7204

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[Carl Leitner]

Hi Charles,

One thing to bear in mind on this profile is that the main motivation was to move from a PDF to the FHIR IG as a form of publication.  This is to take advantage of improved tooling in, for example, FHIR IG dependency management.

Outside of some editorial issues (e.g. fixing an example), there will not be a change to the content.

Cheers,

-carl

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/iheqrphtech/016401db2ba7%2469b5da60%243d218f20%24%40interopehealth.com.

[cha...@interopehealth.com]

Derek,

 

Thanks for the response.  Clear and convincing.

This is an important point.  Maybe it should be written as an IHE Policy and placed in these profiles that are under that “transitional status”.

 

Charles

 

De : pcc...@googlegroups.com <pcc...@googlegroups.com> De la part de Derek Ritz
Envoyé : jeudi 31 octobre 2024 17:08
À : cha...@interopehealth.com; John Stamm <jst...@epic.com>; Jenny Thompson <jtho...@path.org>; Bell, Sarah <Sarah...@himss.org>; pcc...@googlegroups.com; pcc...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; iheqr...@googlegroups.com; afou...@ehealthsign.com; Lori L. Reed-Fourquet <lfou...@ehealthsign.com>
Cc : CORMAN, Constantin <cor...@who.int>
Objet : [IHE PCC Tech] RE: IHE Quality Plan: Re: PCC/QRPH Committees - October 2024 F2F Meeting

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