RE: [IET_HUB] Digest Number 422
RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL
I would like to continue my yesterday’s response, specifically to the third para of TP3’s mail.
How can we even think in the direction of comparing IET with IITs/Ms? How many of us have heard of the word convocation? Well let us not ignore ground realities and the fact that that decision making at IET has not moved with times. And now that IET has become a proud constituent college of the UPTU, things will get only that much more bureaucratic.
I was speaking yesterday to my younger brother about the visit of students for collection of funds. He asked me whether it was not possible for such a big institute to grant a couple of Lakhs for the meet, when private Institutions(of repute, not those PR hungry ones) can do this on regular basis.
I have not heard of any improvement in the institute’s infrastructure, facilities in recent years. The copy of the flickering website ietlucknow.edu seems to have been put together by a well meaning student. But it needs a professional editing. So it is going to be fun driving the driven, to repeat the rhetoric. For example, the organizers are setting aside a budget for transport. Does our institute have a bus? In my knowledge the old bus went defunct. In case there are institute vehicles, can those be put at the railway station on 31st(and may be also 30th) morning to drop people at their camps and be retained at stand by for the meet?
As far as the alumni pressure group is concerned, I am of the view that if administration(of anybody/institution) is willing to move/change course, it will do by even a single e-mail. I have several such fortunes to my credit. Even in UPTU, when our Dr Khare was Pro VC and my younger brother was studying in one of the UPTU colleges, I had sent a detailed feedback along with a couple of suggestions to him and the VC. I can say today with smugness that most of those have been put in action by UPTU. I would not bore you with the details of this and other major(huge) changes at other places we have been able to make by sending ideas to ‘right executive’, but I am saying this in response to an earlier mail in which it was said that if we have a structured body we can take up with the managements of companies for placement. We can do as a body and also as individuals. (Though I am yet to follow up my mail to the central recruitment cell of my company, which till a couple of years back would go only to IITs as a rule)
Coming back to the big question then: why alumni meets? Just for the nostalgia, gossip, fun? Well, what is the harm in meeting just for simple harmless Fun under the Sun? Or something bigger? What is that bigger? Fixing campus placements? But then why an Alumni Meet is required for that? Just identify the right set of Alumni, host a joint dinner with the placement cell and a few key faculty. Why bother so many others, many of whom are scared for their own jobs?
If fund generation is a purpose, and that fund can be used to upgrade the facilities of the institute (as I am told has been done in the recent past, when projector and other equipments/facilities were purchased with funds, surplus from some event to which I was also a humble, petty and proud contributor) then this can be the best thing that can come out of it. But if this is sustained, it will create two power centers at Institute which do can coexist in harmony as long as there is harmony, but even Nandan Nilekani fell out from IIT management one fine day. Let us not worry too much about the apocalypse now though.
Let
us compile the universe first.
Regards
Rajeev Tivari
From:
iet_gro...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:iet_gro...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 4:27 PM
To: iet_gro...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [IET_HUB] Digest Number 422
Messages In This Digest (1 Message)
Re: Discussion - Alumni meet From: tiger point
Message
1.
Re: Discussion - Alumni meet
Posted by: "tiger point" tiger...@yahoo.com tigerpoint3
Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:33 am (PDT)
hello everyone,
clearly we are of one opinion on the website issue. there seems to be glut of
them and one wonders where to respond. as suggested, shivam seems to be the
best guy to do it. vishant jain has informed that a site ietalumni.org is
already under construction process. i suggest all experts in this area come
together, on their own, and decide what is best and come up with one unified
and inclusive site for exchange of ideas. i request shivam and others to look
into this and be in touch with the juniours at iet. anyone with suggestions
should express them without delay.
sankalp is getting a bit disillusioned. no fight is going on sankalp, these are
constructive debates which precede consensus. its ok as long as we keep our
objective in mind. some of us want a registered society and some of us have now
expressed concerns with reasonable arguments that we should
probably keep away from a structured set up for the alumni.
rajiv's concern is that such a structured organisation is likely to
degenerate into a cesspool of stink. those interested otherwise, must answer
his concerns. they are valid. my answer to rajiv is this: many of our alumni
want to have a relationship with the institute like say the IITs do, where
alumni contribute through funds having some say as to the object to be
attained by their contributions. in places like IITs i suspect such alumni
groups are run primarily by the institute itself. if you have noticed, alumni
of our institute through whatever they have said, and importantly, through what
they have NOT said, seem to lack in confidence when it comes to
relinquishing or abdicating any control of whatever sort to the
institute/faculty. to me that is very instructive. neither fund management nor
a general alumni management in the institute's control seems to be a viable or
desirable option in our alumni's mind. these impressions and i talk of
lack
of trust, cannot be brushed aside. these are borne out of experiences that each
has had in her/his time at the institute. on this matter further feedback
can be taken when we assemble in lucknow. therefore, to my mind, those who wish
to help with funds ("giving back to the alma mater" as some have
suggested) have to look beyond the IIT IIM model. the faculty/institute in our
case, does not seem to carry any trust with us. here, as rajiv has suggested,
probably the usual driver has to be driven. good or bad i dont know. but thats
how it is. this is a failing we are invested with and cant change it, we
have to go around it or simply forget imitating the kind of relationship that
IITs have with their alumni. i am very clear on one thing, we need a registered
society in full legal sense ONLY if the association aims to deal with such
funds. if the purpose is only harmless innocuous nostalgia vacations, we can very
well do as we are doing today. have local
chapters and chaptered activities which can grow into something bigger with
time. even if it doesnt where is the harm?
so a regsitered alumni society in our case will also have to ensure that power
and control is vested more in alumni/current students than with the
faculty/institute. the bye laws have to be designed in such a fashion. before
that we should arrive at a consensus on the question: do we or do we not need a
registered society? pls engage with this question. to have alumni meets, either
local or global, we do not need a structured body. nostalgia is enough
motivation.
two things need our immedaite attention:
1. the appearance of a single website that takes care of everything almost.
2.registration fees for the meet on 31st and feedback on the ietseed site to
keep the movers of this meet in high morale.
regards.
--- On Sun, 4/26/09, Sankalp Chugh <sankal...@tcs.com> wrote:
From: Sankalp Chugh <sankal...@tcs.com>
Subject: Re: Discussion - Alumni meet
To: "Vikas Sankrityayan" <pandey...@gmail.com>
Cc: amit...@yahoo.com,
"AMIT RANJAN CHITRANSHI" <amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in>,
bandan...@tcs.com,
"Sankalp Chugh" <er.sa...@gmail.com>,
"Gunjan@CroydonGhai" <Gunja...@aig.com>, jainv...@yahoo.com,
kha...@rediffmail.com,
"RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL" <RTI...@bhelpem.co.in>, shasha...@rediffmail.com,
"Shishir Jain" <shishi...@gmail.com>, shi...@cmu.edu,
shi...@shivampatel.net,
shivam.u...@gmail.com,
tiger...@yahoo.com,
va...@bhel.in
Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 4:16 AM
>hi vikas sir,
I have no complaints or questions on my seniors ideas or thoughts.I can blindly
trust them,they are like our Godfathers.They have guided us all the times,and
they very well know how to manage these things.Most of them are big managers of
the world's most reputed companies..and managing this small alma matter is a
very small task for their ability.
The only thing i wanted to point out , was that the ultimate goal of 31st may
should not dampen in this discussion.We should all co-operate with each other
and help ourselves to build a iconic IET alma , which has been a dream of every
IETian ever.
I request all the 5000 + IETian all around the globe to participate in this and
make this a landmark event in the 25 golden years of IET era.
Thanks and Regard
Sankalp chugh
>
>Sankalp Chugh
>Tata Consultancy Services
>Cell:- 9836955433
>Mailto: sankal...@tcs.com
>Website: http://www.tcs.com
>____________________________________________
>Experience certainty.IT Services
>Business Solutions
>Outsourcing
>____________________________________________
>
>Vikas Sankrityayan <pandey...@gmail.com>
>04/26/2009 09:13
>
> To Sankalp Chugh <er.sa...@gmail.com>
> cc AMIT RANJAN CHITRANSHI <amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in>,
Shishir Jain <shishi...@gmail.com>, RAJEEV TIVARI -
MPL <RTI...@bhelpem.co.in>,
tiger...@yahoo.com,
"Gunjan@CroydonGhai" <Gunja...@aig.com>, bandan...@tcs.com,
jainv...@yahoo.com,
va...@bhel.in,
amit...@yahoo.com,
shasha...@rediffmail.com,
kha...@rediffmail.com,
shi...@shivampatel.net,
shi...@cmu.edu,
shivam.u...@gmail.com
> bcc
> Subject Discussion - Alumni meet
>
>
>
>Hi Sankalp,
>We are back on track. Let us not bring the whole group in the picture :)
(i.e. let us not copy other mailing list in this conversation.. hope you
understand). Everyone is giving his thoughts on the matter and everyone is
entitled to give one :-) . But as you rightly said, discussions should not stop
us from registration/fund collection.
>BTW.. today Bandana Map might meet some IETans in Lucknow to take this
further.
>
>Amit,
>>> A website called www.ietalumni.org has already been registered for
the portal and some juniors are in the process of making it with exellent
innovative contents. The preview will be available in 3-4 days
>
>Just FYI, I had to request a lot with VK Singh sir etc to bring up
www.ietlucknow.edu in 2002 and had to request again in 2005 (2 years after
passing out) with IET authorities to pay the domain cost for the website after
it was down for non-payment. It was very humiliating to see a message like
'This site is down for lack of payment'. You will find discussions on it on the
same group iet_gro...@yahoogroups.com. I am afraid
that we don't have to go through same situation with this new website.
>
>Shivam,
>Please respond regarding website related discussions. I am copying his
gmail ID too.
>
>Fund collection - I pledge my share.
>
>Thanks
>Vikas
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Sankalp Chugh <er.sa...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I think the spirit of true IETians back again, fighting for an encore post
or fighting for a hostel room or fighting for an ugly girl..This has been the
IET way of managing or mis managing things.. and here again it is going the
same way.
>
> Multiple websites launched ,making some unnecessary issues debatable etc..
>
>What are we all showing here?.. we all are bossing around and mis managing
things.I am very feared that this whole idea of alma meet on 31st may
will be executed or not.Instead of supporting the current organizers ,we
are fighting among ourselves to add another color in the rainbow...but i doubt
the rain even...
>
>All the issues are relevant in itself and we should make small teams to
address them.
>
>1)Making more registration so that we at least put up a show on 31st.This
meet is not like Mohan Makin's one,where we had lot of free resources,here we
do not have any financial support to our poor student organizers,so first thing
we should all register and close this most important issue.
>
>2)Registering the association for Alma is equally important work as this
has been pending since many years.We have been successful in organizing the
Alma meets,but we cannot make a small association (legal structure) which will
give a perfect framework to our IET alma.
>I think this registration process is on the verge of stamping , all we have
to do is not to ignore this issue but just provide a small support to the
managing team.The draft is ready and approved.The next process would be to make
a probable list of officers(organizing members).
>Making this association is the first and the only step towards getting
sponsorship and industry support in future.
>
>3)Launching a web portal for information management is almost done, we just
have to decide which portal we will be using.This issue needs no debate or if
needed we can ask for a small online voting to decide.Anyways any senior member
of the alma can take issue and give his/her final word, no further trivial
debate is required in this case.
>
>I don't want to hurt or object any of my seniors or juniors, i just want to
stand at the IET soil and feel proud on every 31st may 2009...2010...2011...2012....
..........2100..........
>
>Hope this would be the last mail , before we all forget our egos and get to
work.
>
>Thanks and Regards
>Sankalp Chugh
>2003-07 IET lucknow
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:54 AM, AMIT RANJAN CHITRANSHI <amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
>
>
All,
>I guess there is some confusion. More than one parties have come up to
contribute. A website called www.ietalumni.org has already been registered for
the portal and some juniors are in the process of making it with exellent
innovative contents. The preview will be available in 3-4 days.
>We'll need to sort out as to what do we need to put on the website and
where is it to be hosted. I feel we should give it a look and then decide on
the content and features we'd like to have.
>Regards,
>Amit
>
>--- On Sun, 26/4/09, Shishir Jain <shishi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>From: Shishir Jain <shishi...@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Alum Handling ???
>To: "Vikas Sankrityayan" <pandey...@gmail.com>
>Cc: amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in,
"RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL" <RTI...@bhelpem.co.in>, tiger...@yahoo.com,
shi...@cmu.edu,
"Gunjan@CroydonGhai" <Gunja...@aig.com>, bandan...@tcs.com,
shi...@shivampatel.net,
jainv...@yahoo.com,
va...@bhel.in,
amit...@yahoo.com,
shasha...@rediffmail.com,
er.sa...@gmail.com,
kha...@rediffmail.com
>Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 1:24 AM
>
>Yes, We can have a domain like alumni.ietlucknow.edu or ietlucknow.edu/alumni
which can be redirected to this URL, or existing Alumni Link redirecting here,
whenever we are ready to make the switch.
>
>Best regards,
>Shishir
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Vikas Sankrityayan <pandey...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Shishir Sir,
>Can this model be simulated on ietlucknow.edu itslef? Shivam has access to
it and can the needful changes. It is more likely to succeed as we don't have
to hunt for members, they will come automatically to us. I can provide you
bunch of email IDs (500+) for start :).
>
>There are many mailing lists/groups already existing over the internet.. i
do not remember the oldest once.. but yahoogroup and orkut have many already.
So, if we have to make it official, let us make it on ietlucknow.edu domain
itself.
>
>Regards
>Vikas
>
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Shishir Jain <shishi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Hello Everyone,
>
>As promised, here is the preview release of Alumni Portal.
>
>http://campus.careerage.com/ietl/alumni
>
>This is based on SaaS model and enhancement of CampusAge platform, which
means we don't have to invest into anything (Hardware,Software,maintenance,bandwidth,hosting)
etc.
>
>This is a complete Information Management Platform related to
Alumni/Institute/Students.
>
>Though only basic functionality related to Alumni has been implemented (we
have got this up in 4 days) so far, but this can be a beginning to collect
everyone's information on a platform which can be used for keeping track of
Alumni.
>
>The process is that registration needs to be approved by Alumni Officer
before it start showing in the "Alumni Profiles".
>
>Take a look, register and I look forward to your feedback.
>
>My next obvious question is, if we have to use this as official Alumni
Portal, how should we go about it and who should be Alumni Officer to manage
the information?
>
>Best regards,
>Shishir
>
>On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Vikas Sankrityayan <pandey...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>We already have many online groups (Orkut, Yahoo). Why think about creating
the same again? Why not give a try to a formal body too? Something formal
should be there so that juniors forget for happened 4 years back (as the
present juniors claimed that this is the first alimni meet and infact it was
the 3rd!).
>
>Off topic, we need to ask juniors to mail us the PDF of the placement
brochures (Scanning the brochure) . We can circulate them to our HRs. This
alumni meet is basically being done to encourage placement next year.
>
>Regards
>Vikas
>
>PS: Including Dr. Khare sir in the loop.
>
>On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Shishir Jain <shishi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Hello All:
>
>1. Since this is smaller group, I can announce that I and Shivam discussed
about the Alumni Portal and since I'm professionally working on creating such a
Platform on SaaS model, it is best we use the same. I shall have a preview
available tonight or latest by Monday. This would be a good starting point for
us to have all our information available on common platform.
>
>2. I don't see much value in registering the society, unless we want a
legal sanctity. I'm not sure for what purpose do we need legal sanctity.
>
>3. I would suggest let the momentum build up from small groups doing some
activities regularly and have local chapters come to life, see whether it is
sustainable and then expand scope of activities.
>
>Best regards,
>Shishir Jain
>
>On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:41 PM, <amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in>
wrote:
>
>
Respected Seniors,
>The division of thoughts is crystal clear now!!
>It took 30 yrs for even IIT-Madras to have their formal alumni body (I have
purposefully removed the word "Association" from my thoughts). Their
activities started long ago in 1964 but they formed the alumni body in 1994. I
feel that way we are too young even to think about it.
>It is a good idea to continue having regular discussions on mails which
ofcourse do not die with these meets getting over. I am sure Shivam's alumni
portal with comprehensive alumni database will be uploaded soon. These E-mails,
portal etc readily support the cause by providing it a broader canvass mostly
in terms of publicity & utilities (that was our vision during Na jaa &
Mohan Meakins Meet). But ....but... can this virtual world be able to
work on the grass root level without an active human team??????? And with about
5000 existing alumni and 300+ generating every year, can we have an active team
without a set platform or an existent system??? If yes, then ideas are whole
heartedly welcome!!
>And most importantly can this active team take up issues of student welfare
with Institute/other bodies without an identity from an existent
system/platform??? If yes, the channel may be worked out with outmost zeal...
>(P.S - A group of alumni from HBTI alumni body (mostly IOCL employees)
recently met our Director (HR) to increase the intake in campus placement
during this recession time. I am sure they have visited other PSU's also).
>The by laws, constitution, rules, regulations etc are just formalities to
be done for creating a system which in our case are made flexible enough to
ensure that they dont bind us. It is upto us to register this system or not,
but creating this system is most important for continuity of activities. Also I
personally feel that registration gives proper shape and identity to a system.
Rest may be discussed at appropriate forum.
>Let the alumni, students and even the faculty feel the need of a permanent
democratic alumni body which has the accountability and resources to regularly
take up welfare activities for Institute and the students. Let these three
pillars (or atleast the first two) really come up with that spark & urge,
and more imortantly have a clear vision to form an actively working alumni body
(with dedicated volunteers, not bosses), then only it will be the right time to
work on it. Till then lets have these intermittent meets and reunions, atleast
they will bring us together (to have brain storming sessions on these issues).
>As a committed volunteer I am ready to work for any idea that will bridge
the gap between the alumni and our alma mater, but lets have a clear vision
first.
>Thats all from my side..... the forum is open now!!
>Regards,
>Amit Ranjan Chitranshi
>Project Engineer (Civil)
>IOCL PDRP-Site
>Paradip
>
>
>--- On Fri, 24/4/09, RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL <RTI...@bhelpem.co.in>
wrote:
>
>From: RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL <RTI...@bhelpem.co.in>
>Subject: RE: An existing model of alum handling
>To: iet_gro...@yahoogroups.com, ietlde...@googlegroups.com,
ietl...@yahoogroups.com
>Cc: "AMIT RANJAN CHITRANSHI" <amit_ch...@yahoo.co.in>,
TIGER...@yahoo.com,
"Vikas Sankrityayan" <pandey...@gmail.com>, shi...@cmu.edu,
" Gunjan@CroydonGhai" <Gunja...@AIG.com>, bandana.sinha@tcs..com
>Date: Friday, 24 April, 2009, 4:40 PM
>
>Honestly, I am just a common alumnus and like many of us am very
comfortable without the rigid structure of an association, with bosses and all.
When there is an association, there is a line of command which differentiates
the office bearers from a non-office bearer alumni.
>In our residential society, we started a yahoogroup whose members were
likeminded residents with common interests to get things done by the builder.
Later on we got it registered as a society. Today 4 years down the line, those
people are nowhere in the picture and the association has become a stinking
cesspool of greed and what not.
>On the other hand there is totally unofficial yahoogroup by name of IRFCA,
(with original expansion Indian Rail Fan Club of America which no more holds
now as most of the members are now from India, though founding members were
Indians from America). It is a thriving group with more than 500 mails a day
and one of the most elite member base right from Retd Railway Board members to
teenage students and who knows even LPY might be sneaking in, as level of
debates is exemplary and has been the base for many improvements in railways
including the recent withdrawal of side middle berths. It has maintained a site
by name of IRFCA.org which is the richest single source of information and
snaps of Indian railway. Coming to the point, they organize meets at places
like IITs et al on regular basis(the schedule. Venue and organizing members of
next meet are announced in the current one), but they have no legal existence.
The issue of getting it registered has been
raised many times by people but it dies a natural death. Members are highly
resourceful but somehow are not comfortable with the idea of a body, for
obvious reasons. They do not even issue identity cards to members.
>The idea is that by virtue of being an IETians we are an association,
whether it has a legal form or not. Getting ourselves registered is no
guarantee of doing better and vice versa. However, if we can establish a
comprehensive email-group as proposed by Shivam, then everything else will fall
in place, registration or no registration. Every student passing out must be a
member. We need an efficient and full time and transparent funds management to
do this. IRFCA thrives on donations but no one has asked for a statement in
more than 20years of its existence and there has been no acrimony over it.
Trust is what should matter. When it is made legal, then it is implied that
lack of trust is being plugged with a legal framework of bylaws( which
off course can be interpreted the way the party on power or influence wants).
>Going wild, but in full reason, any takers, if we voluntarily replenish
Shivam Patel (CS2002-2006), who is one of the most enthusiastic, able and
devoted alumni to the cause of association(He managed the entire website of
Mar’07 meet sitting in Bangalore and also the Najaa site)) and tell him to take
care of the Alumni site and e-group, with no questions and no one on top of
him, and the able people providing him technical and other inputs as needed,
off course Shivam(and the Shivam God) willing?
>I have stuck my neck fully out. Let them fall.
>Regards
>Rajeev Tivari
>
>Re: {IET_LKO_310509:125} RE: An existing model of alum handling
>
>Posted by: "Amita Singh" amit...@yahoo.com amita435
>
>Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:31 am (PDT)
>
>
>
>Maan gaye!!
>
>Rajeev, Keep the momentum high. I just wish we had some more alumni like
you who present a face to the entire meet rather than poor student organisers
who are toiling on our behalf.
>
>And these alumni may not necessarily represent an association.
>
>I had been looking forward for such a meet all these years. But because of
certain prescheduled personal plans, I may not be able to make it. And I really
regret not been able to participate in this emails too because of my family
commitments.
>
>Friends and fellow alumni, my earnest request to all of us is to actively
participate. This is very small token of what we can give back to our Alma
mater, which I presume would have been the stepping stone in your rising
career charts!
>
>And the only measure of it would be to register yourself online and
contribute openly to the Alumni fund(required for organising the event) either
through personal or corporate sponsorship. I pledge 25K to the Alumni fund.
>
>Thanks & Regards
>
>Amita
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