iDempiere Meetings - collecting tool suggestions

[Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gómez]

Hi community, one of our conclusions of the conference in Lyon was that we can improve our communication within the project, forums are good and are the preferred way.

But for meetings we have used since *mpiere times the IRC channel.

Now, we want to restart the iDempiere weekly meetings every wednesday at 13:00 UTC.

The next meeting is scheduled for november 13th.

During conference and workshop there were suggestions to move to a new more modern platform for chatting (meetings).  Some people feel IRC is outdated and obsolete (I don't, but maybe I'm too used to that).

Slack was proposed showing its threading capability as an advantage to conduct meetings with several ideas (on the other side threading could be problematic when two threads have things in common).

Personally it doesn't matter to me which tool to use, I would just follow whichever tool people prefers that guarantees a good number of community members attend.

So, hearing suggestions here, if proposing a not widely known tool I would suggest that proposer adds detailed information like:

* Advantages of the proposed tool

* Is it hosted or do we need to host and manage a new server

* past content can be searched
* is it open source?

* if commercial, how much does it cost?

* and other information relevant to help making a decision

As I said slack was proposed, and I use slack in a daily basis, but I think is not the right tool for our project as it's a closed tool, it just allows to search 10.000 messages in the past.

Ideas??

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz

[Ricardo Alexsander Santana]

Hi Carlos and Community,

I'm testing Rocket.Chat the last few weeks. It definitely worth take a look at this tool.

From Rocket.Chat website:

Open Source Team Communication

Rocket.Chat is free, unlimited and open source. Replace email, HipChat & Slack with the ultimate team chat software solution.

https://rocket.chat

Regards,

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ralex...@gmail.com

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[Orlando Curieles]

Hi Carlos, I happy to see this message, i think a group on Telegram is good, you can create two groups (Idempiere-masters) where only you and Hensin by example can write to inform some important information, and the other group for all, You can put on mute the group if you wanna rest :D

 Best Regards.

 Orlando

[Nicolas Micoud]

Hi,

We also use Rocket.Chat for internal communication (it replaces Skype). And all is working perfectly !

+1 for me for it

Nicolas

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[Nasi Chassoulas]

Hi all,

Have been doing some reading on matrix.org as another Rocket.Chat alternative, although Rocket.Chat is a really nice tool too.

Regards,

Nasi

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[Hiep Lq]

for group chat i prefer focus feature:

mention, keyword notify, search, quote

try mattermost before, it look good. 

https://mattermost.com/

So, hearing suggestions here, if proposing a not widely known tool I would suggest that proposer adds detailed information like:

* Advantages of the proposed tool

       Same feature like other chat tool, slask, rocket other guy proposing

       full mention, keyword notify, quote, search history unlimit

* Is it hosted or do we need to host and manage a new server

      have cloud, also community version for download

      also free host from eclipse community: https://mattermost.eclipse.org/

* past content can be searched

      unlimit, it depend on fulltext search of database (postgresql, mysql)

* is it open source?

      yes

* if commercial, how much does it cost?

* and other information relevant to help making a decision

     support window, mac, linux, android, ios

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[Satish Vijayan]

My 2C:

a. Slack is an excellent tool - however it is useful for communications that get resolved in the short term. Its better than Whatsapp. This is typically used for communication WITHIN a project. Ie, if a team is working on a cool new feature - they can quickly update each other. this is true for all chats.

b. Google groups is again excellent for adhoc conversations - but when we try to categorize and arrive at solutions - it becomes a problem - I have seen the same question being asked multiple times.

c. Wikipedia - is great for Final Information - ie information that is slow to change. 

I feel that we should create a forum

a. You can pre-determine subtopics - Newbs, Installation issues, releases, Accounting COA, BOM, Warehouse, Learning Links etc (Mr. Red had a forum I believe)

b. The information on the forum does not change fast, but it is not unchanging either. With every release there would be updates to the forum and it could be done as a user. Wiki is also needed - but if something on a wiki does not work - the forum would be the place to go.

There are rich conversations buried in the google groups that you wouldn't know about till you search.

Rgds

[Hiep Lq]

forum need effort to maintain.

in case people don't search before ask, it's same google group

agree, it's label better google group but not much

chat room that support to generate to page like http://www.globalqss.com/idempiere/irclog/index.html is great.

it help search by google.

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[Satish Vijayan]

If a couple of people join with me - I would be happy to be one of the moderators.

[Eugene Barg]

Hi guys

I propose using Telegram for these reasons

• Telegram app is easily available on any iOS, Android, Windows - and web also, for those wh
  
• 300 mln people use it so it not too much 'sectarian'
• it's creator Durov has on several occasions promised to always keep it free
• Telegram groups can have up to 200,000 members
  
• Public groups. Get a short link for your group and make it public, like t.me/publictestgroup. This way, anybody can view the group's entire chat history and join to post messages.
• 'Instant search. Find the message you're looking for, even among millions. Filter by sender to make searching easier.'
• 'Replies, mentions, hashtags. Easily trace a conversation and keep communication efficient, no matter the group size'
• 'Moderation tools. Appoint administrators that can mass-delete messages, control membership, and pin important messages. Define their admin privileges with granular precision.'

More here  https://telegram.org/faq#groups-and-channels

BR

Eugene

пятница, 8 ноября 2019 г., 19:42:15 UTC+3 пользователь Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gómez написал:

[Eugene Barg]

in addition to my previous reply - Telegram has Linux 32 and 64 Desktop apps together with web version

пятница, 8 ноября 2019 г., 19:42:15 UTC+3 пользователь Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gómez написал:

Hi community, one of our conclusions of the conference in Lyon was that we can improve our communication within the project, forums are good and are the preferred way.

[Hiep Lq]

On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 10:12:49 PM UTC+7, Eugene Barg wrote:

Hi guys

I propose using Telegram for these reasons

• Telegram app is easily available on any iOS, Android, Windows - and web also, for those wh
  
• 300 mln people use it so it not too much 'sectarian'

can you explain about this feature? 

• it's creator Durov has on several occasions promised to always keep it free
• Telegram groups can have up to 200,000 members
  
• Public groups. Get a short link for your group and make it public, like t.me/publictestgroup. This way, anybody can view the group's entire chat history and join to post messages.

Public groups is great, so don't required a bot hear and record log like now 

• 'Instant search. Find the message you're looking for, even among millions. Filter by sender to make searching easier.'
• 'Replies, mentions, hashtags. Easily trace a conversation and keep communication efficient, no matter the group size'

 hashtags is great also, when a topic discuss spear to some days, we easy to link it by hashtag when start

[Eugene Barg]

Hi, Hiep

Thank you for asking

I meant by saying this that (IMHO)

• Telegram is an app that can be used on many devices - smartphones, tablets, desktops, Android, iOS, Linux, etc. Maybe this will be convenient to different guys in different situations, even on the go
• The fact that Telegram messenger app is being used by 300 mln people worldwide may contribute to the ease of participation in the prospect group

пятница, 15 ноября 2019 г., 6:19:39 UTC+3 пользователь Hiep Lq написал:

[Eugene Barg]

Hi Hiep

3 more points-

• Telegram is cloud based so there is no costs and headaches in terms of maintenance and infrastructure. You download the app just use it
• Telegram has widgets that are embeddable https://core.telegram.org/widgets  Maybe this feature will be good if Community will decide to attach some group/groups/channels to a website|websites of the iDempiere project
• For sophisticated scenarios one can build Telegram bots https://core.telegram.org/bots

пятница, 15 ноября 2019 г., 6:19:39 UTC+3 пользователь Hiep Lq написал:

[Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gomez]

One question Eugene,

Can I log in and logout from meetings?  I would not like to be messaged at non working hours.

And the fact that I use telegram to communicate with family and friends make it not possible to disconnect during non office hours, like I do on slack and Skype.

Is it possible?

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz

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[Eugene Barg]

Hi Carlos

Not entirely sure how my following comments will speak to your point

1. whenever I do not want to be disturbed I mute group or channel (toggle off notifications in a specific group\channel) in Telegram and this works across all devices with Telegram. In this situation msgs got delivered but they do not pop up or make a sound.
2. I haven't seen or used in person more sophisticated tools like scheduling of working and non working hours in Telegram
3. There is a way to have Telegram account dis-attaced to the actual phone number https://telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me  or to have multiple accounts https://telegram.org/blog/themes-accounts#multiple-accounts  Maybe here you can have a workaround: 'You can add up to three accounts with different phone numbers to your Telegram app, and then quickly switch between them from the side menu. Notifications will keep coming from all accounts, unless you change this in the Notification settings.' here is a short visual explanation https://telegram.org/file/811140278/1bb7/uhFjnxh3tw4.4847973.mp4/530102d1aadfeb724a
4. https://telegram.org/blog/permissions-groups-undo   says  
1. 'With group permissions, admins can now restrict all members from posting specific kinds of content.'
2. 'Or even restrict members from sending messages altogether – let the admins chat amongst themselves while everybody else witnesses their wisdom in silent awe.'
3. 'in case a group you manage is getting hard to follow, the Group Permissions section now features a Slow Mode settings in the Group Permissions section/ When an admin enables Slow Mode in a group, you will only be able to send one message per the interval they choose. A timer will show how long you have to wait before sending your next message.' https://telegram.org/file/464001183/1/YnAl88d6J38.33018/4852608cfd1d53abc6
4. You can have
1. different admins with different permissions, along with Admin Titles shown for everybody. More on that https://telegram.org/blog/admin-revolution#admin-rights 
2. partial ban https://telegram.org/blog/admin-revolution#partial-bans

I'd like to put a sort of disclaimer here. 

1. I use Telegram extensively but never been in a shoes of an 100k users group admin
2. though I really expect things in Telegram work the way they are described in its FAQ 

Hope it helps )))

пт, 15 нояб. 2019 г. в 11:50, Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gomez <car...@gmail.com>:

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[Ricardo Alexsander Santana]

I do not use Telegram on a daily basis, although I have a bot running on it. The way I see the app, is more like a chat app, and you will alway rely on telegram server. 

The good thing about Rocket.Chat is that you own all the data in your own server. It uses webhooks, so can be easily integrated to tools like BitBucket with no coding required. It has some plugins, so you can have video chat, screen sharing, etc. It's a relatively new tool, but it's promising.

Also it's possible to integrate with Telegram for those who prefer the mobile applications of telegram.

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[Eugene Barg]

Hi Carlos

More to your point of being able to log out from discussion in Telegram public group:

 in groups and channels one can enter or leave it any time he/she chooses. Leaving once doesn't restrict you from entering next time. 

Probably it would be good idea than not all admins left a group or channel altogether

BR

Eugene

пятница, 15 ноября 2019 г. пользователь Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gomez <car...@gmail.com> написал:

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[Andreas Sumerauer]

We are using nextcloud as a middleware. It comes with a chat module that I am quite fond of.

https://nextcloud.org/

* Advantages of the proposed tool

desktop (browser) and mobile clients available, supports document sharing,
Nextcloud is used by the german government so it seems like it's maintained by a well established company. 

* Is it hosted or do we need to host and manage a new server

Self hosted and hosted (paid) solutions available.

* past content can be searched

Yep

* is it open source?

Yes

* and other information relevant to help making a decision

Docker and snap images are available.

Andreas 

[YOUNOUSS Abba Soungui]

Hello,

 

I would like to suggest a XMPP server.

 

* Advantages of the proposed tool

XMPP is an open standard and one interesting thing with it, is that it's federated. So, it means that anyone can create an account on a server of his choice, even a self hosted and be able to talk with other users of another XMPP server, just like email. This will allow everyone to chose the service he want to use or his own server, to interact with the community. There are many clients for PC, phones and even web apps.

* Is it hosted or do we need to host and manage a new server

We could host our own server or use a service provider.

* past content can be searched

Honestly, I dont know. I just know that some servers like Ejabberd have a module allowing to generate a HTML for Multi Users Chat history, but I have never used this module, so I dont know if it provides a search mecanism. For cloud services, some of them offer this service and the features will depend from one to another.

* is it open source?

Most of them are open source, as far as I know.

 

* if commercial, how much does it cost?

 

* and other information relevant to help making a decision

 

 

Sincerly.

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[Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gomez]

OK, if I would summarize this thread it looks like this:

* mattermost - 3 votes

-> Hiep here

-> Chuck in email thread

-> Murilo in email thread, and he also offered to host a server for the community

* rocket.chat - 2 votes

* telegram - 2 votes

* matrix.org, nextcloud, xmpp - 1 vote each

So, is not a decision yet, we need to test some things, but I think it would be interesting to experiment with mattermost.

Murilo, could you please set up a test server for that?

If possible could you give me access to that server:

I would like to check:

- backups pushed to some community server

- integration with JIRA and jenkins?

-- we have this today on IRC using a globalqss server as an intermediary using notifico

- ability to read and search history

-- I managed to record and publish the IRC using globalqss server and some tools (I think a mix of irclog, inotifywait and log2html)

Regards,

Carlos Ruiz

Am 08.11.19 um 17:42 schrieb Carlos Antonio Ruiz Gómez:

[Norbert Bede]

+1 for mattermost

[Murilo Habermann Torquato]

Hi Carlos,

I will configure the testing server and send the access (administrative user and ssh key) to you.

BR,