Asking Oliver for help

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wurzel

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Mar 31, 2022, 10:38:28 AMMar 31
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Hi all,

I'm mainly asking for Oliver's help but if anyone else has some ideas, I'd be very grateful.

Around the time I upgraded from OS3.9 to OS3.2, I think I changed some settings in MUI. This has resulted in me losing tabbed screens in certaim areas.

In IBrowse, the Downloads manager window is no longer tabbed but sits one window below the other.

In YAM, the new email window is also one window below the other and not tabbed. It also affects the TCP Identities window in the settings.

I've been trying all sorts of settings in MUI but I cannot fathom it out. I'm not that clued up in MUI to be honest.

Please see attached screenshots and if anyone has any ideas - HELP!


Bye for now,

--

You can't be truly rude until you understand good manners.
-- Rita Mae Brown

Russell Butler
wur...@hotmail.co.uk Member, Team AMIGA The Amiga lives on!
Past President, Jersey Junior Chamber (JCI)

A1200 Power Tower, Blizzard 50mhz 060 with SCSI & 256mb RAM
Mediator TX1200, Fast Ethernet, Soundblaster, 196mb RAM,
64mb Radeon, Spider USB, IDE 128Gb drive, CDRW

weather:
Partly Cloudy : 5.00 C, 41.00 F
Winds : North 21.86 MPH, 35.18 KPH, 19.00 Knots
Jersey Airport (EGJJ), United Kingdom
downloads.jpg
YAM.jpg

Javier de las Rivas

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Mar 31, 2022, 4:45:16 PMMar 31
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*** On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 15:36:53 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm mainly asking for Oliver's help but if anyone else has some ideas,
> I'd be very grateful.
[...]
> Please see attached screenshots and if anyone has any ideas - HELP!
[...]

Did you try to delete (or move to trashcan) from ENVARC:MUI yam.#? ibrowse.#? settings?


Regards
--
AOS4.1/SAM460ex/PPC460EX-1155MHZ/2048MB/RadeonRX550/SSD240GB/DVDRW :-P

wur...@hotmail.co.uk

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Mar 31, 2022, 4:49:43 PMMar 31
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Hi Javier, yes I should have said that I did that. I also removed the global prefs too.

Thanks for the suggestion though.


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Javier de las Rivas

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Mar 31, 2022, 4:56:04 PMMar 31
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*** On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:49:36 +0100, wur...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

>
>
> Hi Javier, yes I should have said that I did that. I also removed the
> global prefs too.
[...]

other MUI progs. show tabs ok?

maybe mui loads from libs: or another path some MCC classes?


Regards
--
AOS4.1/SAM460ex/PPC460EX-1155MHZ/2048MB/RadeonRX550/SSD240GB/DVDRW :-P

Oliver Roberts

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Apr 2, 2022, 9:19:04 AMApr 2
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On 31/03/2022, Javier de las Rivas <jabi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *** On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:49:36 +0100, wur...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Hi Javier, yes I should have said that I did that. I also removed the
>> global prefs too.
> [...]
>
> other MUI progs. show tabs ok?
>
> maybe mui loads from libs: or another path some MCC classes?

Unfortunately, I can't offer much more help than Javier already has
and I did before. It is as if MUI's Register class is not functioning
at all (this class is built-in, in muimaster.library). I don't think
there are any settings that are supposed to make it behave like that.

How do the tab groups look in the MUI prefs window (Groups item)?

Did you try deleting ENVARC:MUI/#?Global#?.prefs#? and rebooting yet?
Back up those files first, obviously. It is not going to be anything
in IBrowse's or YAM's own settings - it is definitely MUI.

If you still can't get it working, you could perhaps try contacting
Thore directly to see if he has any ideas, if you are still using MUI
5.0.

--
Oliver Roberts / @Futaura / www.futaura.co.uk

Michael Malyshev

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Apr 11, 2022, 12:59:38 AMApr 11
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This is a common problem and happens with some MUI/Classes/Settings combo

If you clear your MUI settings and install clean MUI 3.8 you will be fine
then add components on top of it, chances are you got some MUI5 classes in older MUI setup

Worked for me, and really, sadly, current MUI5 is not usable on 68K,
MUI4.x was partially acceptable but has some bugs that did not exist in 3.8

While 3.8 lacks some nice things, it's considerably faster and stable,
since most software uses it as base. Those that require v5 are just lazy.


Четверг, 31 марта 2022, 17:38 +03:00 от wurzel <wur...@hotmail.co.uk>:

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Отправлено из Почты Mail.ru

wurzel

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Apr 11, 2022, 5:52:38 AMApr 11
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 07:59:35 +0300, 'Michael Malyshev' via IBrowse Users wrote:

> This is a common problem and happens with some MUI/Classes/Settings combo

> If you clear your MUI settings and install clean MUI 3.8 you will be fine
> then add components on top of it, chances are you got some MUI5 classes in older MUI setup

> Worked for me, and really, sadly, current MUI5 is not usable on 68K,
> MUI4.x was partially acceptable but has some bugs that did not exist in 3.8

> While 3.8 lacks some nice things, it's considerably faster and stable,
> since most software uses it as base. Those that require v5 are just lazy.

Also @Javier de las Rivas and @Oliver Roberts

Thanks for your suggestions.

I have removed the YAM, IBrowse and Global prefs but the same thing happens, so that leads me to think it's not a setting.

However, Michael may be onto something - although I use the latest version of MUI 5, there may be a rougue MUI 3.8 class in there somewhere.

I'm going to remove all MUI 5 then reinstall it.

Hopefully, with it being a "clean" re-install, that might fix it (although I always tell MUI to update MUI 5 - MUI 3.8 is in a different folder).

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll hopefully post "I've fixed it" soon :)

>>???????, 31 ????? 2022, 17:38 +03:00 ?? wurzel <wur...@hotmail.co.uk>:
> ?????????? ?? ????? Mail.ru




Bye for now,
--

Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he woke that morning?
A: He said, "Where am I, Cathy?"
Q: And why did that upset you?
A: My name is Susan.

Russell Butler
wur...@hotmail.co.uk Member, Team AMIGA The Amiga lives on!
Past President, Jersey Junior Chamber (JCI)

A1200 Power Tower, Blizzard 50mhz 060 with SCSI & 256mb RAM
Mediator TX1200, Fast Ethernet, Soundblaster, 196mb RAM,
64mb Radeon, Spider USB, IDE 128Gb drive, CDRW

weather:
Partly Cloudy : 8.00 C, 46.40 F
Winds : South=east 23.02 MPH, 37.05 KPH, 20.00 Knots

wurzel

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Apr 11, 2022, 12:37:18 PMApr 11
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:51:08 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:

Ok, replying to myself but I think I've fixed it!

I reverted to an older version of MUI5 and that seems to have cured the problem.
To be sure, I reinstalled the latest version of MUI 5 and the problem came back. Changed back to the older version and fixed.

Non-working version is MUIMastewr.Library is version MUI 5.0-20210831 Latest
Working version is MUIMaster.library MUI-5.0-2020R3

Amiga A1200, OS 3.2.1

So although it's an older MUI, at least it works.

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.
Bye for now,
--

If you want a place in the sun, prepare to put up with a few blisters.
-- Abigail Von Buren

Russell Butler
wur...@hotmail.co.uk Member, Team AMIGA The Amiga lives on!
Past President, Jersey Junior Chamber (JCI)

A1200 Power Tower, Blizzard 50mhz 060 with SCSI & 256mb RAM
Mediator TX1200, Fast Ethernet, Soundblaster, 196mb RAM,
64mb Radeon, Spider USB, IDE 128Gb drive, CDRW

weather:
Clear Skies : 17.00 C, 62.60 F
Winds : Variable 11.51 MPH, 18.52 KPH, 10.00 Knots

Oliver Roberts

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Apr 11, 2022, 12:56:24 PMApr 11
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 at 05:59, 'Michael Malyshev' via IBrowse Users <ibrows...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
This is a common problem and happens with some MUI/Classes/Settings combo

If you clear your MUI settings and install clean MUI 3.8 you will be fine
then add components on top of it, chances are you got some MUI5 classes in older MUI setup

Worked for me, and really, sadly, current MUI5 is not usable on 68K,
MUI4.x was partially acceptable but has some bugs that did not exist in 3.8

While 3.8 lacks some nice things, it's considerably faster and stable,
since most software uses it as base. Those that require v5 are just lazy.

I disagree - 3.8 is far from stable. My recommendation has always been to at least use 3.9. There are some nasty bugs in 3.8 that cause IBrowse to crash and there is no way to make workarounds for these.

We had 3.9 on OS4 for a very long time, which fixed these issues. It took much effort and time to eventually get it released for OS3, so it would be a shame for nobody to make use of it.

Javier de las Rivas

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Apr 12, 2022, 7:36:50 AMApr 12
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*** On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:35:49 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:51:08 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:
>
> Ok, replying to myself but I think I've fixed it!
>
> I reverted to an older version of MUI5 and that seems to have cured the
> problem. To be sure, I reinstalled the latest version of MUI 5 and the
> problem came back. Changed back to the older version and fixed.
>
> Non-working version is MUIMastewr.Library is version MUI 5.0-20210831
> Latest Working version is MUIMaster.library MUI-5.0-2020R3
[...]

https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev/releases

Try as Oliver suggested with 3.9 (or latest V5 nighlty build)


Regards
--
AOS4.1/SAM460ex/PPC460EX-1155MHZ/2048MB/RadeonRX550/SSD240GB/DVDRW :-P

wurzel

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Apr 12, 2022, 11:06:02 AMApr 12
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:37:42 +0200 (CEST), Javier de las Rivas wrote:

> *** On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:35:49 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:

>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:51:08 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:
>>
>> Ok, replying to myself but I think I've fixed it!
>>
>> I reverted to an older version of MUI5 and that seems to have cured the
>> problem. To be sure, I reinstalled the latest version of MUI 5 and the
>> problem came back. Changed back to the older version and fixed.
>>
>> Non-working version is MUIMastewr.Library is version MUI 5.0-20210831
>> Latest Working version is MUIMaster.library MUI-5.0-2020R3
> [...]

> https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev/releases

> Try as Oliver suggested with 3.9 (or latest V5 nighlty build)


> Regards

Thanks, but I'm happy with MUI 5 - my system is fast enough to use it.

I have already backtracked to the last but one release which works, so that will do. The Download Manager had lost its tabs, among other things but this is now working, see attached.

I did try the lates nightly release but it has already expired.

Thanks for the suggestions though, you did help

Bye for now,
--

You don't need to be faster than the bear which is chasing you. You merely need to be faster - or less tasty - than the others running with you.
-- from "Maintaining system security"

Russell Butler
wur...@hotmail.co.uk Member, Team AMIGA The Amiga lives on!
Past President, Jersey Junior Chamber (JCI)

A1200 Power Tower, Blizzard 50mhz 060 with SCSI & 256mb RAM
Mediator TX1200, Fast Ethernet, Soundblaster, 196mb RAM,
64mb Radeon, Spider USB, IDE 128Gb drive, CDRW

weather:
Rain : 12.00 C, 53.60 F
Winds : South 11.51 MPH, 18.52 KPH, 10.00 Knots
pic1.jpg

wurzel

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Apr 12, 2022, 11:14:16 AMApr 12
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2022 14:19:01 +0100, 'Oliver Roberts' via IBrowse Users wrote:

> On 31/03/2022, Javier de las Rivas <jabi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> *** On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 21:49:36 +0100, wur...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Javier, yes I should have said that I did that. I also removed the
>>> global prefs too.


> Unfortunately, I can't offer much more help than Javier already has
> and I did before. It is as if MUI's Register class is not functioning
> at all (this class is built-in, in muimaster.library). I don't think
> there are any settings that are supposed to make it behave like that.

> How do the tab groups look in the MUI prefs window (Groups item)?

There weren't any tabs in the groups window. When I went back to the previous version, there were so I realised what you meant!

So this was what was wrong, not YAM, IBrowse or my settings.

I remember you said it worked on your OS3.2, but do you have OS 3.2.1 as I do?

Anyway, I have reported it on Github though Thore says he doesn't have that problem with the same version, but he's on OS 3.9.

> Did you try deleting ENVARC:MUI/#?Global#?.prefs#? and rebooting yet?
> Back up those files first, obviously. It is not going to be anything
> in IBrowse's or YAM's own settings - it is definitely MUI.

Yes I did that but it didn't cure the problem, but now I know it wasn't a setting.

> If you still can't get it working, you could perhaps try contacting
> Thore directly to see if he has any ideas, if you are still using MUI
> 5.0.


On a side note, what you fixed in AmiSSL is absolutley brilliant. YAM connects and downloads so fast now, it's supercharged! So thank you for that.



Bye for now,
--

Do not open this tagline. No user serviceable parts.

Javier de las Rivas

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Apr 12, 2022, 12:10:38 PMApr 12
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*** On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 16:04:31 +0100 (BST), wurzel wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:37:42 +0200 (CEST), Javier de las Rivas wrote:
[...]
>> https://github.com/amiga-mui/muidev/releases
[...]
> Thanks, but I'm happy with MUI 5 - my system is fast enough to use it.
>
> I have already backtracked to the last but one release which works, so
> that will do. The Download Manager had lost its tabs, among other things
> but this is now working, see attached.
>
> I did try the lates nightly release but it has already expired.

Just create ENVARC:I_KNOW_MUI_IS_BETA file with value 1



Regards
--
AOS4.1/SAM460ex/PPC460EX-1155MHZ/2048MB/RadeonRX550/SSD240GB/DVDRW :-P

Michael Malyshev

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Apr 12, 2022, 1:07:28 PMApr 12
to ibrows...@googlegroups.com


While 3.8 lacks some nice things, it's considerably faster and stable,
since most software uses it as base. Those that require v5 are just lazy.

I disagree - 3.8 is far from stable. My recommendation has always been to at least use 3.9. There are some nasty bugs in 3.8 that cause IBrowse to crash and there is no way to make workarounds for these.

We had 3.9 on OS4 for a very long time, which fixed these issues. It took much effort and time to eventually get it released for OS3, so it would be a shame for nobody to make use of it.

I agree that MUI 3.9 had many problems fixed but also introduced much more new ones
that were eventually fixed only in later 4.x releases.

The best 68K MUI was earlier 3.9 that was part of OS4 project,
but that is not publicly available and sadly has some problems too.
It had most of the cool new features added and no cpu overstrain forced on you, what v5 does.

I have asked MUI DEVs several times to reenable options and restore some
functionality from 3.8 as advanced user options
so that it can be used on lighter real machine setups, but that never happened.
MUI5 in current state requires some maintenance to be useable on real 68K machines
everything in 3.9-5(2018) is unusable since it has significant problems in one place or the other.

key 68K features missing
- reenable TEST mode settings, not forced real time only (there is still a button for it!)
- add option to revert to intuition assisted scrollers (smooth responsive scrolling)
- option for simpler colour / bitmap requesters (as it was in 3.8)

Things we will probably miss forever
- indentable button text in XEN style button frames
- incompatible to 3.8 saved window positions/dimensions (they are reversed in 3.9+)


So current v5 is only viable for RTG and fast machines (UAE based)
OS4 PPC is fine, since it usually matches the minimum requirements
you must be in a strange situation to run it on native graphics there.
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