Microfilms

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Mickey Cohen

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Aug 13, 2017, 7:21:17 PM8/13/17
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Hi All,

Good news.

When the IBM 1130 I worked with was turned off in 1979, I kept the microfilms which contain the source codes of the system. After so many years I found them.

I have the complete sets of:
System loader, DUP, Fortran Compilre (alas, not the EMU), Supervisor, Core Load Builder, Resident Monitor, RPG Compiler, Macro Assembler, STD Arith, Extended Arith, Misc Utils  and more.

I would be pleased to ship the microfilms to someone that wants to scan them and extract the source.

Best,
Mickey

Bob Flanders

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Aug 13, 2017, 9:18:53 PM8/13/17
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Hi Mickey,

Thank you for letting us know about this. I have forwarded the email to some who may be able to help. Let's see if they have some suggestions. Hopefully, they wlll answer in channel.

Best regards,
Bob

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Al Kossow

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Aug 14, 2017, 9:13:00 AM8/14/17
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There was just a discussion about this for 1800 fiche in the middle of June

Those went to steve zoppi (szo...@collabri.com)

Bob Flanders

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Aug 14, 2017, 10:06:31 AM8/14/17
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Mickey, 

It sounds like Steve Zoppi may be one to contact.

Regards,
Bob

Eddy Quicksall

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Aug 14, 2017, 10:22:22 AM8/14/17
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If you have a listing of the source for ISAM then I would really appreciate that.

 

Eddy

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Steven Zoppi

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Aug 15, 2017, 1:04:30 PM8/15/17
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Hi Mickey,

 

I have received the prior shipment of microfiche and have started the process of scanning them – the process is slow for me (due to travel and day job) but looks pretty good so far.

 

How many images do you have and is it microfiche (multiple images in a transparent film card) or microfilm (pages imaged into a continuous spool of film)?

 

Thanks!
Steve

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Steven Zoppi

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Aug 18, 2017, 6:55:37 AM8/18/17
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This is odd … I sent this yesterday but it just came through today … anyone else experience this delay?

 

-Steve

Bob Flanders

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Aug 18, 2017, 7:04:45 AM8/18/17
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Steve,

Two of your recent posts have gone to moderation (makes me manually release those posts to the public view).Your account is not set for moderation --- you should have full access.

Unfortunately, I don't always notice these messages right away, hence the delay.

Bob 



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Eddy Quicksall

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Sep 17, 2017, 2:05:53 PM9/17/17
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There was an add-on to the Fortran compiler that would support ISAM. Do you think this has a listing of that ISAM add-on?

 

Eddy

 

From: ibm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ibm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Cohen
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:21 PM
To: IBM1130
Subject: [IBM1130] Microfilms

 

Hi All,

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Nick Seidenman

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Sep 17, 2017, 9:08:25 PM9/17/17
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I cut my programming teeth on an 1130, back in high school.  I think anyone on this list would love to have those.  At the very least, they need to be preserved.

What format of microfilm?  (I'm assuming you mean rolls, rather than sheets of microfiche, right?)

Nick

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 4:05 AM, Eddy Quicksall <Ed...@quicksall.com> wrote:

There was an add-on to the Fortran compiler that would support ISAM. Do you think this has a listing of that ISAM add-on?

 

Eddy

 

From: ibm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ibm1130@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Cohen
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:21 PM
To: IBM1130
Subject: [IBM1130] Microfilms

 

Hi All,

 

Good news.

 

When the IBM 1130 I worked with was turned off in 1979, I kept the microfilms which contain the source codes of the system. After so many years I found them.

 

I have the complete sets of:

System loader, DUP, Fortran Compilre (alas, not the EMU), Supervisor, Core Load Builder, Resident Monitor, RPG Compiler, Macro Assembler, STD Arith, Extended Arith, Misc Utils  and more.

 

I would be pleased to ship the microfilms to someone that wants to scan them and extract the source.

 

Best,

Mickey

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John R Pierce

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Sep 17, 2017, 9:14:09 PM9/17/17
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On 9/17/2017 6:08 PM, Nick Seidenman wrote:
> I cut my programming teeth on an 1130, back in high school.  I think
> anyone on this list would love to have those.  At the very least, they
> need to be preserved.
>
> What format of microfilm?  (I'm assuming you mean rolls, rather than
> sheets of microfiche, right?)

pretty sure any original IBM source listings are going to be on Fiche


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Mickey Cohen

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Apr 29, 2020, 5:02:43 PM4/29/20
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Hi Steve,

I have an original set of the Monitor V2M10, disk utilities, RPG-III, Macro and lots more.
If there is any use to anyone, I can ship them.

Best,
Mickey Cohen
skype: tadam_98

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Jeff Jonas

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Apr 29, 2020, 5:33:20 PM4/29/20
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> I have an original set of the Monitor V2M10, disk utilities,
> RPG-III, Macro and lots more.

The Vintage Computer Museum-East (NJ)
(formerly known as MARCH)
has a rather complete set too.
I'm unsure I ever wrote down all the sets.

-- jeff jonas

David Cortesi

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Apr 30, 2020, 11:15:35 AM4/30/20
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On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 2:02:43 PM UTC-7, Mickey Cohen wrote:
Hi Steve,

I have an original set of the Monitor V2M10, disk utilities, RPG-III, Macro and lots more.
If there is any use to anyone, I can ship them.

Normally I would urge you to apply to the Computer History Museum to see if they are interested (https://computerhistory.org/acquisitions/), but sadly, they are not processing artifact donations during the quarantine!

Anyway, could you describe this set a little more? Is it microfiche, rectangular cards with multiple images?
In any case, approximately how many cubic feet and how many pounds of weight?

Thanks
Dave Cortesi

Mickey Cohen

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May 3, 2020, 4:11:01 AM5/3/20
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Hi,

Attached please find a scan. I have more than 100 such pages. I good condition.

Best,
Mickey
MicroFiche_sample.jpg

sjz...@gmail.com

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May 3, 2020, 5:36:51 PM5/3/20
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Hi Mickey,

 

This project from the previous shipment ended up getting halted (but not forgotten) when the costs of custom scanning became prohibitive.

 

I still have them and have recently located an archivist who may have proper tech to do the scans without breaking the (my) bank.

 

I can keep them with the others in-queue and if I can get everything scanned at once, I’ll do that.  (COVID-19 has been slowing down many things as you know).

 

Regards,

Steve

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Al Kossow

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May 3, 2020, 6:34:58 PM5/3/20
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On 5/3/20 2:36 PM, sjz...@gmail.com wrote:

> I still have them and have recently located an archivist who may have proper tech to do the scans without breaking the (my) bank.


IBM fiche is challenging because it is 80 column card size, larger than a normal fiche sheet



Brian Knittel

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May 3, 2020, 7:11:35 PM5/3/20
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The dms version on the fiche is an older one than what we have in electronic form, which is m12 or m13 , and I have a set of fiche for m12.

So unless there is historical interest in comparing the older to newer versions it may not be worth putting in a lot of effort scanning, unless fiche scans come easy.

As always I’m highly interested in any source code or install media for cobol, basic or other program products! And ibm1800 OS install or source media.

Brian

> On May 3, 2020, at 3:34 PM, Al Kossow <a...@bitsavers.org> wrote:
>
> On 5/3/20 2:36 PM, sjz...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I still have them and have recently located an archivist who may have proper tech to do the scans without breaking the (my) bank.
>
>
> IBM fiche is challenging because it is 80 column card size, larger than a normal fiche sheet
>
>
>
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John Pierce

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May 3, 2020, 8:27:12 PM5/3/20
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On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 4:11 PM Brian Knittel <br...@quarterbyte.com> wrote:
The dms version on the fiche is an older one than what we have in electronic form, which is m12 or m13 , and I have a set of fiche for m12.

I thought M12 was the final release from IBM.  We had a patched/hacked version at CHI we called M13, but it was never an official release.


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br...@quarterbyte.com

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May 4, 2020, 1:04:12 AM5/4/20
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The official last release was M12, but I have an electronic version whose comments and code edits call it M13.
I don't recall where it came from -- would have to dig a bit as I've not been fooling it with it a few years.
b



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Gene Osten

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May 4, 2020, 1:15:00 PM5/4/20
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Disk Monitor, V2’s last released version was 12.

However, a very large PTF (Program Temporary Fix)  was released (I think it was 1969, but it could have been 1968.

This was informally called V13, and it does not surprise me that some of the source code might reflect this.

 

Best regards,

Gene

 

From: ibm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ibm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of br...@quarterbyte.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:04 PM
To: ibm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [IBM1130] Microfilms

 

The official last release was M12, but I have an electronic version whose comments and code edits call it M13.

Bob Flanders

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May 4, 2020, 1:21:59 PM5/4/20
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Hi ... do you know what the fix was for?

Regards,
Bob

Eddy Quicksall

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May 4, 2020, 1:23:36 PM5/4/20
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I thought IBM retired the 1130 in the mid 70’s.

 

Eddy

Brian Knittel

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May 4, 2020, 1:56:08 PM5/4/20
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I diffed the decks a very long time ago. I seem to remember lots of small changes. I looked at zdcip yesterday and there is one error message added to the list of things that can go wrong in formatting a cartridge, some changes to the exit from a couple routines. Umm, hmmm, in the zip with dms sources on ibm1130.org, is the v13 directory included? I can post it when I return home if it’s not there already.

On May 4, 2020, at 10:21 AM, Bob Flanders <bob.fl...@gmail.com> wrote:



Gene Osten

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May 4, 2020, 2:21:29 PM5/4/20
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That sounds right to me. I was an 1130 customer in 1968 and 9, and installed the PTF then (I think).

I spent the next few years in the Marines, and then joined IBM in 1973 as a Systems Engineer.

I installed an 1130 for a commercial customer in 1973 or 4, and was responsible for educational  and commercial installations for some years following. It could be that the PTF was issued then.

One minor nit-pick – The 1130 RPG was not known as RPG-III. I believe that the RPG-II name was given to the compiler for the System/3 series of small business computers (announced in 1969), and RPG-III was released for the AS-400, perhaps around 1976 or so.

 

Historical quiz question – Does anyone remember Wil Baden, the author of LSDMF (Logical Sort Disk on Multiple Fields)?

Wil was well known and highly regarded by the 1130 community for this effort. Many asked for the source code for it, but as far as I know, he never released the 1130 version.

 

Best regards,

Gene

 

From: ibm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ibm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eddy Quicksall
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 10:23 AM
To: ibm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [IBM1130] Microfilms

 

I thought IBM retired the 1130 in the mid 70’s.

 

Eddy

 

From: ibm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ibm...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Flanders
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2020 1:22 PM
To: ibm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [IBM1130] Microfilms

 

Hi ... do you know what the fix was for?

 

Regards,

Bob

 

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Gene Osten

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May 4, 2020, 2:29:28 PM5/4/20
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As I recall, there were quite a few relatively minor (but welcome) changes – not only fixes, but enhancements as well. I seem to remember that the FORTRAN diagnostics were much improved (among other things). However, I could be confusing that with the EMU FOTRRAN compiler – a great improvement, but which required at least an 8K machine. The IBM compiler was required to run on a 4K model (the smallest storage available).

If I ever find my 1130 docs, I may be able to answer the question more precisely. IBM sent pretty good documentation for PTFs, etc.

 

Have a great day,

Gene

Brian Knittel

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May 4, 2020, 3:02:00 PM5/4/20
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We have many many boxes of punched cards Will gave us. The code might be in there. We keep taking about having a pizza and cardreading party...
B

On May 4, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Gene Osten <gen...@pacbell.net> wrote:



Eddy Quicksall

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May 5, 2020, 1:30:23 AM5/5/20
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I have a running DM2. Is there a way to tell the version?

 

Eddy

Eddy Quicksall

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May 5, 2020, 1:35:56 AM5/5/20
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I remember Wil Baden. Our sort from DNA beet his sort hands down so my colleague wrote a wrapper to use his calling sequence but access the DNA sort. My 1130 customer still uses the LSDMF wrapper.

 

Eddy

br...@quarterbyte.com

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May 5, 2020, 12:29:21 PM5/5/20
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after a coldstart or on a //JOB card, DMS prints its version, for example

// JOB

LOG DRIVE   CART SPEC   CART AVAIL  PHY DRIVE
  0000        1C00        1C00        0000

V2 M12   ACTUAL 16K  CONFIG 16K


Though, TBH I don't know if patches were issued between mod levels. If there were, there would be intermediate versions that weren't annotated.


Gene Osten

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May 5, 2020, 4:29:59 PM5/5/20
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Hi, Eddy.

Yes, I thought the wrapper was most ingenious – roll out the current core contents, run LSDMF, then restore core.

IIRC, the only glitch was that if the Disk Monitor thought that the DCOM sector had not been changed, it would not refresh it. Did the DNA sort find a fix to this problem?

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Eddy Quicksall

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May 5, 2020, 9:05:49 PM5/5/20
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I don’t remember a problem like that.

Eddy Quicksall

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May 5, 2020, 9:18:17 PM5/5/20
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Well nuts, I’m using CYTOS and that does not use // JOB. Is there a way to look  at something like DCOM?

 

Eddy

Eddy Quicksall

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May 5, 2020, 9:25:06 PM5/5/20
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Here is DCOM. But I don’t see anything that looks like the version. Could it be #SYSC? That would make mine version 2, mod 13.

 

A0>dcom

------

#NAME=WHERE #FCNT=OFF   #TODR=0002  #SYSC=020D  #RP67=ZERO

#DBCT=0246  #LCNT=OFF   #FRDR=0002  #JBSW=OFF   #PIOD=PLUS

#ENTY=0000  #NCNT=OFF   #FHOL=0000  #CBSW=OFF   #PPTR=PLUS

#MPSW=OFF   #ECNT=ON    #UHOL=1C40  #DCSW=OFF   #ACIN=0000

#LOSW=OFF   #GCNT=OFF   #FSZE=0000  #MDF1=0100  #CIAD=010A

#X3SW=OFF   RSRVD=OFF   #USZE=47C0  #MDF2=OFF   #GRPH=OFF

DRIVE-> -0-   -1-   -2-   -3-   -4-

#ANDU=  4458  0000  0000  0000  0000

#BNDU=  4458  0000  0000  0000  0000

#FPAD=  0446  0000  0000  0000  0000

#PCID=  0002  0003  002B  002C  0000

#CIDN=  0040  0000  0000  0000  0000

#CIBA=  0160  0000  0000  0000  0000

#SCRA=  0158  0000  0000  0000  0000

#FMAT=  0001  0000  0000  0000  0000

#FLET=  0000  0000  0000  0000  0000

#ULET=  0170  0000  0000  0000  0000

#WSCT=  0000  0000  0000  0000  0000

#CSHN=  0016  0000  0000  0000  0000

A0>

 

Eddy

br...@quarterbyte.com

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May 5, 2020, 11:25:28 PM5/5/20
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Indeed, #SYSC (or $SYSC) is it. From NAMCRA.ASM

                    JB700 LD   L  $SYSC     FETCH VERSION AND MOD LEVEL N0113250

where it's fetched to print on the // JOB output line

So you have an M13, but it might be different from the M13 we have.

Anyone interested in a copy of the M13 we have? I can zip it up. I would have to dig thouigh to find its provenance. I have files dated 4/5/2002, which must have been around when I got it, but I don't know if I can find the email chain from back then :-/

brian





Steven Zoppi

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May 6, 2020, 9:14:24 AM5/6/20
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If you zip it up, i will look at it on Friday and try to compare to what i have in the way of patches.

Eddy Quicksall

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May 6, 2020, 10:00:50 AM5/6/20
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Where can I get all of the DM2 source?

 

Eddy

Bob Flanders

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May 6, 2020, 10:11:59 AM5/6/20
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Hi Eddy,

http://ibm1130.org/sim/downloads

The IBM1130.zip contains DM2.

Regards,
Bob

Gene Osten

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May 6, 2020, 2:45:50 PM5/6/20
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If I remember right, it was documented in the user guide that Wil provided.

The work-around was to have the caller read in data from a sector that was different from the one in place before the call to LSDMF.

Best regards,

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