Rehman Learns to Plagiarise - 'Kahin to Hogi' from 'Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na'

[Neole]

The main mukhda of the song 'Jaane na Kahan Duniya Hai' from 'Jaane Tu
Ya Jaane Na' is taken from Michael Learns To Rock's first hit 'The
Actor'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDoDsa9J-Y
- the copied part starts from 1:08 minutes (I'm not an actor Im not a
star').

The copied version is not out on youtube as yet so you will have to
buy a cd to hear it.

The whole style of the song is also the same, rock ballad, so its not
just a coincidence. It would be uncanny if someone got the same tune
and arranged in it in the same fashion as a 15 year old song.

Also the similarity between the first song 'Kabhi Kabhi Aditi' from
the same album with a telugu song has already been reported.

The third song in the album 'Jaane tu mera kya hai' also brings shades
of an Eminem song in the arrangement, cant remember which.. yet. But
that ones nothing that can be called illegal I guess, although Vanilla
Ice got a lot of flac for just lifting a single bassline from Queen's
'Under Pressure' in his Ice Ice Baby.

[Abhinav Narayan]

The Eminem song you're referring to could be 'Real Slim shady' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99HdRxlJzV4), but i don't think it's lifted or inspired (the beats, i.e.).

[Neole]

Thanks Abhinav. After listening to Eminem's song, I most definitely
think the opening synth riff is inspired, and quite close to
'lifting'.

Rehman seems to have needed a lot of inspirations to get out of his
epic historical mode and give a commercial chartbusting album.
Nitin

> > 'Under Pressure' in his Ice Ice Baby.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dr. Ramkrishna Naik]

dear mr . Nitin

you are very sharp in having noted them down the inspirations so fast.
congrats . but i would like to comment a little on this as

a music teacher and a final year student of rock and jazz music .



1) kabhi kabhi aditi

a long standing allegation says rahman copied from devi sri prasad .
but it is wrong . rahman took it from his own song mustafa

mustafa which was released several years back . listen carefully the
interlude . i am uploading it rapidshare

http://rapidshare.com/files/120496413/interlude.mp3.html

So i feel this particular allegation on rahman is baseless . KARTHIK ,
I FEEL YOU SHOULD MENTION THIS FACT IN YOUR WEBSITE ,

OTHERWISE PEOPLE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING A.R. RAHMAN

2) Pappu cant dance Sala

this has not been inspired from any one . i am surprised by the kind
of energy rahman has given to it one one hand he gives the

soulful khwaja mere khwaja and on the other this energetic song
anyways .

3) jazz song of jaane tu ya jaane na

the jazz arrangements are typical jazz man . it is neitther inspired
nor copied from eminem . there are many jazz arrangements and this is
an elementary and most common jazz arrangement. the fact that bugs me
is that a maestro like rahman chose to use such a simple
arrangement ..why ? there are many other better arrangements. may be
he has kept the rest for the future

4) kahin to hoga by rashid ali

rashid ali sounds so much like lucky ali sometimes. anyways this is a
simple rock ballad and it is not a coincidence that you have found
out . many rock ballads have almost the same arrangements , same vocal
style and same chords . i was in an opera yesterday night and the
shakesperean ballad of macbeth also had the similar tune . micheal
learns to rock , opera ballads of hampshire , nothing gonna change my
love for you , hally met sally , prety princes and many others have
the same style . Rahman's song is just another addition to the same .
this cant be called as an copy nor inspiration nor coincidence since
it is a style of arrangements under question .


i am so happy to find this group with talented listeners like nitin
who could point out similarities , it is good to listen to world music
along with indian music . i just thought to make some finer points
clear . that was my several years of understanding music


rest of the songs are good and has the typical rahman style . A music
composer is just like us . he listens to many songs for his own time
pass. while composing he adopts a style and unknowingly sometime
similarity crops in . i cant call this as a copy . Jaane tu ya jaane
na iss ofcourse way out of rahmans capability but youngsters loved
it . a 50 year old man like me may not like it especially when my ears
are so tuned into illayraja's golden classics . but our rahman is also
doing a good job . he is very famous here in london . hope he goes
more ahead in the near future

[Ashish]

Wow,thanks Dr. that was an enriching reading! 

[Dr. Ramkrishna Naik]

ok

On Jun 6, 11:39 pm, Ashish <s.gan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow,thanks Dr. that was an enriching reading!
>

> On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Dr. Ramkrishna Naik <tuntunt...@gmail.com>

[Ravi]

This is nothing but double standards. If someone like Anu Malik or
Pritam or someone else copies or uses bits and pieces of any foreign
track then everybody just pounces on them and waste no time in calling
them copy cats. Why can't the same criteria is used when it comes to
Illayaraja or A.R.Rehman..... Instead words like ....pays homage to
blah blah blah...or .... just a coincidence ... or ....have used the
loop ...or is of the same genre ... or.. the styles are similar....
etc are used to justify them. Nothing but pathetic

Ravindran.




On Jun 10, 8:01 am, "Dr. Ramkrishna Naik" <tuntunt...@gmail.com>

> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Neole]

Hello Dr Ramkrishna,

I think we are talking about different songs. Im a little caught up at
the moment, but soon will provide the exact segments I find copied and
post them here.

I am not as qualified musically as you are, but I am a trinity grade 8
pianist. Plus I know a bit about how the indian music industry works.
As the judge on the Krazy4 copy had said, 'to my layman's ears it
appears very similar'. I think that should be the criteria instead of
going behind chords and genres and royalty free loops.

Nitin

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Dr. Ramkrishna Naik]

to ravi

this by no means double standards . rahman is no great guy for me. i
have seen him grow right before my eyes . illayaraja is a maestro . to
lift bits and picies is not a sin but lift a complete song ? well
definetly bit bad. this site hosts several files of illayaraja and
rahman . 90% of them are loops. is there any explanation why pritam
made a xerox of korean song in race ? is there any proof of rahman
and illayaraja copying as blatant as this ?


to neole

i have respected your opinion .. i dont deny anything what you have
told son . only thing is that these are styles and has been used a lot
many times before. i severely condemn rahman for using so similar
styles . this surely doesnt fits the status he has now. but i guess
this is the first attempt in indian cinema so forget it . i have got
you and haven't mistaken you

[Dr. Ramkrishna Naik]

i know you are talking about the rashid ali sang ssong . it has
similarities with the line "i am not a star.." but as i told it is a
common arrangement

On Jun 13, 10:41 pm, "Dr. Ramkrishna Naik" <tuntunt...@gmail.com>

[Neole]

Hello Dr Ramkrishna,
I was not talking about the jazz song, I was talking about the other
Jaane Tu song. Its confusing because most songs in the album have the
title in them!

I will listen to Im not a Star again, Im sure its much more than a
chord progression and style copy. It sounded to me like the same tune
with a few notes shifted.

As for Rehmans original Mustafa, I heard your clip and still think he
was inspired by the Telugu track, which also had Genelia Dsouza in it.
But Im quite impressed by you discovering the similarity with the
interlude piece in Mustafa, you must have an amazing memory for music!
Nitin



On Jun 13, 10:58 pm, "Dr. Ramkrishna Naik" <tuntunt...@gmail.com>

[Dr. Ramkrishna Naik]

no i am not talking about the jazz song . i am talking about 'kahin
to' by rashid ali . it is a simple rock arrangement .

well about being inspired from devi sri prasad , that comes to your
personal opinion .

[r.vija...@gmail.com]

Rahman getting inspired from Devi Sri Prasad would probably have Devi
himself in splits! The mustafa inspiration seems much more relevant.
As for admonishing Rahman to have adapted Jazz arrangements, I feel it
is gross injustice to say somthing like that!! When a composer wishes
to compose in a particular genre of music, and pulls it off with
aplomb, as Rahman sir has done in the Tu Bole song, it leaves me
awestruck!! If by saying the arrangements were minimal, you mean to
say a flute interlude or some synth tones would've added lustre to the
song, I beg to disagree. Jazz is as jazzy as it can get in this song!!
Please listen to Louis Armstrong to understand the genre better, and
discuss the level of perfection to which Mr.Rahman has composed the Tu
Bole song in the same genre. Inspiration is the essence of creativity,
for nothing can ever be created without inspiration. But plagiarism is
the death of this very creativity. The very reason behind why songs
like Ya Ali are "dead" while songs like "Kahin tho" have life in them.
I am an ardent fan of good music, who happens to regard A.R.Rahman and
Ilayaraja as the best music directors in this country.

On Jun 16, 6:49 pm, "Dr. Ramkrishna Naik" <tuntunt...@gmail.com>