question about strings and tuning

[Norm Sohl]

I've always treasured this list in particular as a source of excellent technical advice - so here is a technical question. 

My instrument is currently tuned G/C with the two chanters tuned to the typical g’.  Since one of the chanters broke, I’ve been thinking of replacing it with a string that would sound an octave below the g’ to get a richer sound.

so far the viola string I purchased is too large to fit in the tailpiece, and I am reluctant to enlarge the hole without further discussion of the topic - so, what do you all think?  Is this a reasonable modification, are there good strings I should be considering, are there better ways to get a lower sound (like a different tuning entirely)?

Sent from Windows Mail

[Graham Whyte]

A Savarez medium viola g ? wound on stabilon string (ref 733M) is actually slightly thinner than a gut g'
It works reasonably well but not superbly

I use hand made NRI wound strings at my choice of weight (also thinner than gut g')
They are close wound silver plated copper wound on gut (Colum 5, 68 thou)
Not cheap but superb rich sound, play perfectly all the way to the top of octave 2
Having octave chanters is great, you get 3 different melody sounds

Graham

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[Bruno Fournier]

Use a a viola G wound string, crystal core.. works very well

Bruno

[Alden Hackmann]

I like to use a Tomastik Vision violin g.  It is fairly short and will not work with some of the longer scale length instruments, but works on all of ours and most of the commonly made French instruments.  

----Cali

[Arle Lommel]

Others have answered your question about string types, but to answer your other question about modifications there is an easy and absolutely non-invasive solution to your problem: you can always tie a short extension of a lighter string (or even fishing line) to the end of the string (really easy with a ball-end string if you have one) and then run that through the tailpiece. It needs to be short, but as long as you don’t have the silk overwound part of the string past the bridge, you’ll be fine.

If you have a ball-end you simply feed the light string through ball and then feed both ends of the lighter string through the hole in the tail piece and knot them as appropriate after they are through the hole. If that doesn’t make sense, let me know and I can make you a drawing (it’s super simple).

The best knots to do this depend on the type of string end (and string material) you’re dealing with, but as long as you can securely grab the string with your lighter piece of string and run the extension through the tailpiece, you should be fine. I’ve done this a number of times with no problem.

I’d also second the recommendations for octave tuning. My own instrument has three chanterelles, and is tuned g g’ d’’. I don’t use the d’’ very much, but the combination of all three sounds fantastic for certain kinds of music. (I did an arrangement of Granados’ Spanish Dance No. 2 where the three together is just fantastic). In my playing I tend to treat the different chanter strings the way an organist would treat different stops: by selecting them I have up to seven timbre combinations I can use for different things.

Best,

Arle

[Bruno Fournier]

I never thought to mention it, but that's what I've done for years on short strings that don't quite reach the pegbox, for my HG as well as my lute, especially for the lute... I have very long lengthes  of gut in different diameters  I bought from SOFRACOB ( now defunct) who always sold gut in several meters lengths, but to save on gut I cut just what I need to a bit beyond the nut and then tie a nylon, or dacron or even an old gut string leader..

Bruno

[cwhill]

The best knot to use (in my opinion) for fastening two strings together
is a variation of the surgeons knot (basically a reef knot but passing
both loose ends through on the second time). I've used this for years
for mending broken strings on guitars, attaching kite lines, fishing
lines, hemp thread for leather work and pretty well anything that needs
joining one string to another and works with different thickness too.
It won't work on very thick stings (like cello) but it's a secure not
(the harder you pull, the tighter it gets and can be cut right up to the
knot and it doesn't snap the strings).
To tie:
Take the two lengths and do a right over left (like tying a shoelace)
then left over right (like tying a reef/granny knot) but also run the
other loose end through as well so you get a double twist. (The usual
surgeon's not has the double twist first). It doesn't slip and is a very
secure knot to use.

Colin Hill

On 25/04/2014 22:07, Arle Lommel wrote:
> Others have answered your question about string types, but to answer
> your other question about modifications there is an easy and absolutely
> non-invasive solution to your problem: you can always tie a short
> extension of a lighter string (or even fishing line) to the end of the
> string (really easy with a ball-end string if you have one) and then run
> that through the tailpiece. It needs to be short, but as long as you
> don’t have the silk overwound part of the string past the bridge, you’ll
> be fine.
>
> If you have a ball-end you simply feed the light string through ball and

> then feed /both/ ends of the lighter string through the hole in the tail

> piece and knot them as appropriate after they are through the hole. If
> that doesn’t make sense, let me know and I can make you a drawing (it’s
> super simple).
>
> The best knots to do this depend on the type of string end (and string
> material) you’re dealing with, but as long as you can securely grab the
> string with your lighter piece of string and run the extension through
> the tailpiece, you should be fine. I’ve done this a number of times with
> no problem.
>
> I’d also second the recommendations for octave tuning. My own instrument
> has three chanterelles, and is tuned g g’ d’’. I don’t use the d’’ very
> much, but the combination of all three sounds fantastic for certain
> kinds of music. (I did an arrangement of Granados’ Spanish Dance No. 2
> where the three together is just fantastic). In my playing I tend to
> treat the different chanter strings the way an organist would treat
> different stops: by selecting them I have up to seven timbre
> combinations I can use for different things.
>
> Best,
>
> Arle
>
> On 2014 Apr 25, at 19:28 , Norm Sohl <no...@sohl.com

> <mailto:no...@sohl.com>> wrote:
>
>> I've always treasured this list in particular as a source of excellent
>> technical advice - so here is a technical question.
>> My instrument is currently tuned G/C with the two chanters tuned to
>> the typical g’. Since one of the chanters broke, I’ve been thinking
>> of replacing it with a string that would sound an octave below the g’
>> to get a richer sound.
>> so far the viola string I purchased is too large to fit in the
>> tailpiece, and I am reluctant to enlarge the hole without further
>> discussion of the topic - so, what do you all think? Is this a
>> reasonable modification, are there good strings I should be
>> considering, are there better ways to get a lower sound (like a
>> different tuning entirely)?
>> Sent from Windows Mail
>

> No virus found in this message.
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[gurdymaker]

A good basic string is Corelli Crystal violin g if it's long enough. Viola strings can be too long and winding the metal wound part onto the peg is not a good idea as the stresses often cause premature breakage

[Felicia Dale]

I've been very happy with a Zyex short scale, medium tension Viola G string for the lower of my two g chanters on my Hackman. It's a synthetic core with silver winding. It has a lovely, rich, warm sound, is very stable and breaks in quickly (about two days). It fits just fine through the tail piece and through the tuning peg. It does end up with the winding on the peg but the last one's winding broke at the wheel. I'd been doing a lot of loosening and tightening trying to find the right level of pressure against the wheel and it took me a while. 

Felicia.

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[Cali]

Felicia, that's really interesting.  I've tried the Zyex strings and was never able to get a sound I liked.  The Corelli Crystal's always feel too mushy to me.  I think that it is fascinating that each hg player sets their instrument up in a unique way and gets different responses from the different brands of strings.  I prefer Tomastek Vision violin strings.  I like the tone which for me is warm without being fuzzy and they give me a firm touch which I like.  I tend to be kind of a heavy metal player by which I mean that I press the keys hard and use a fairly aggressive wheel technique and I like a very fast key return.

Cali

Sent from my iPad

[Felicia Dale]

Yep. Gurdies are like diets- not one thing works for every single person!

[Felicia Dale]

Hi, ya'll,
I'm considering buying a second Volksgurdy to add to my collection. Does anyone know of one in good shape that's for sale?

Thanks for keeping this in mind...

Felicia.

[Felicia Dale]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/281359876910?roken=cUgayN

[Hobgo...@aol.com]

It would be nice to know what to expect if we click on this URL. I did find a very nice hurdy-gurdy on ebay, and there is a sound bite of it on YouTube as well, but the URL does not even resemble yours. It looks more like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-carved-Ukrainian-Hurdy-Gurdy-Lira-Musical-Instrument-/281359876910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41825b032e

Alice

 

In a message dated 6/14/2014 1:55:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cruiks...@pintndale.com writes:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/281359876910?roken=cUgayN

[Arle Lommel]

Interesting instrument. It’s not really a “traditional” lira at all, but rather a "lira-inspired" instrument. That isn’t to say anything bad about it at all (see below), but an old lira would not have had a buzzing bridge or two melody strings and would have had a diatonic keyboard with very different key shapes. It actually looks like a pretty decent instrument for what it is, and most players would not really be happy with an old-style lira (they would find it very limiting), so I hope it finds a good home.

I am actually glad to live in a time when Ukrainian makers can be creating “non-traditional” hybrid instruments like that and when we can have a large variety of influences. We often look back to the golden age of the hurdy-gurdy as the 1700s, but right now is the real golden age of this instrument. We see more diversity, better materials, and easier maintenance now than ever before. While we can certainly love the old masters, I think they would have jumped at the chance to have the tools and materials today’s makers can use. Just imagine what the old French makers would have done with plywood, carbon fiber, and modern strings.

-Arle

[Rob]

you bet, Arle. i bet they'd have gone bonkers!

[Elizabeth Gilmore]

It still really pretty.... I love the carving...  Whos tradition are you referring to?

[Scott Gayman]

I have worked on one of these and they are HGLOs.
They have a wood handle, crank, shaft, and wheel. The wood for all of the above was pretty soft and probably wouldn't hold up after a few months use.
The one I worked on was a disaster. The shaft expanded and split the wheel and crank during shipping. The maker told the guy he wasn't responsible and blew him off.
I replaced the whole wheel and crank assembly, refit all the keys, sized all the tangents, realigned the bridge and nut string notches, and just made it playable enough to get by.

Scott

On June 15, 2014 4:53:47 PM PDT, Rob <r_che...@comcast.net> wrote:

you bet, Arle. i bet they'd have gone bonkers!

On Jun 14, 2014, at 2:22 PM, Arle Lommel wrote:

Interesting instrument. It’s not really a “traditional” lira at all, but rather a "lira-inspired" instrument. That isn’t to say anything bad about it at all (see below), but an old lira would not have had a buzzing bridge or two melody strings and would have had a diatonic keyboard with very different key shapes. It actually looks like a pretty decent instrument for what it is, and most players would not really be happy with an old-style lira (they would find it very limiting), so I hope it finds a good home.

I am actually glad to live in a time when Ukrainian makers can be creating “non-traditional” hybrid instruments like that and when we can have a large variety of influences. We often l ook back to the golden age of the hurdy-gurdy as the 1700s, but right now is the real golden age of this instrument. We see more diversity, better materials, and easier maintenance now than ever before. While we can certainly love the old masters, I think they would have jumped at the chance to have the tools and materials today’s makers can use. Just imagine what the old French makers would have done with plywood, carbon fiber, and modern strings.

-Arle

On 2014 Jun 14, at 21:16 , HobgoblinH via hurdygurdy <hurdy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

It would be nice to know what to expect if we click on this URL. I did find a very nice hurdy-gurdy on ebay, and there is a sound bite of it on YouTube as well, but the URL does not even resemble yours. It looks more like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-carved-Ukrainian-Hurdy-Gurdy-Lira-Musical-Instrument-/281359876910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41825b032e

Alice

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[Hobgo...@aol.com]

Thanks, Scott. I was seriously thinking about buying it.

Alice

[Arle Lommel]

In this case, the “tradition” was Ukrainian, although from what Scott says, the instruments are wall decoration, not a serious instrument at all, so I’m not sure what to really treat it as.

-Arle

[cwhill]

Copying and pasting the URL opens up the same page as your link Alice so
yes, same instrument/listing.
All wood put me off right away.

Colin Hill

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