New Member - recommendations
LVJay
I just signed up for the list.
I am a music pro (piano/conductor/didgeridoo) and am exploring the
idea of learning to play the hurdygurdy.
I have seen the instruments played, and understand the basic mechanics
of how they work, but have never played one myself.
As far as I can tell, there are few to no players in Las Vegas (go
figure), so I am left to my own devices on this one.
I am looking for recommendations on crafters and/or finding a quality
used instrument. I've done the Google search, and seen many websites,
but I believe that personal experience trumps web design when it comes
to choosing musical instruments.
From what I've heard, I tend to like instruments with a fuller -
darker sound. Sympathetic strings are a definite yes.
Any suggestions?
Peace
Jay
Augusto de Ornellas Abreu
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Felicia Dale
LVJay
I've been to the Olympic Musical Instrument site. The instruments look
beautiful, but their site implies that new instruments take many
months - perhaps years - to receive.
I attempted to contact them by email last week, and have not yet heard
back. Should I call them?
Sadly, the OTW festival is not in the works for me this year.
My vacation time is pre-allocated. (Too bad, as I LOVE the Pacific
Northwest, and am always looking for excuses to get up there)
...and frankly, I'm not that patient. I'm hoping to get an instrument
(or at least start the process) prior to September if possible.
Augusto de Ornellas Abreu
--
VonH...@aol.com
LVJay
Yup, Scott;
It's a desert out here. It can be a real problem with all sorts of
instruments; particularly those that have lived in moist climates
prior to their visit.
But given the number of professional string players here in Las Vegas,
I'm sure that there is a way to work around the dryness.
I have no problem paying for a good quality instrument.
But I don't think I need to go top of the line for a first shot.
Used is fine if it is in good shape ... perhaps even better than new,
as violins and guitars tend to get sweeter with time, I would guess
the same is true of a well cared-for HG.
Anyway... I'm keeping my ears and eyes open.
J
David Gillett
in January, and it's on the FedEx truck as I write! I've heard very
good things about Mel Dorrie at www.hurdygurdycrafters.com, though I
don't know how quickly they build and ship. They have a kit if you're
feeling adventurous.
20...@simonwascher.info
> exploring the
> idea of learning to play the hurdygurdy.
[...]
> I am looking for recommendations on crafters and/or finding a quality
> used instrument. I've done the Google search, and seen many websites,
> but I believe that personal experience trumps web design when it comes
> to choosing musical instruments.
>
> >From what I've heard, I tend to like instruments with a fuller -
> darker sound. Sympathetic strings are a definite yes.
> Any suggestions?
some sugestions from a person who earns his living by playing the hurdy-gurdy:
there is a wiki out there in the web listing as many makers as possible, so it may help to learn about your alternatives:
http://drehleierwiki.a.wiki-site.com/index.php/Kategorie:Instrumentenbau
some while ago I wrote down my own oppinion on things a newbe can check when buying a gurdy:
http://simonwascher.info/HGbuy.htm
personally I would recomend not to try to get the cheapest but get the best. Compared to other instruments like violins or saxophones even the most expensive hurdy-gurdies are rather cheap and some (not all) of the cheaper ones are pure junk.
I myself play an instrument by Wolfgang Weichselbaumer (http://weichselbaumer.cc) who's Allegro is a rather decent standard gurdy with a darker timbre. Sometimes they can be found as second hand offers, especially from sellers who change to one of his other models. So its sensible to ask him directly if he knows about someone selling an Allegro.
As with most wooden musical instruments (luths, guitars, violins...) sound is another word for sensitivity: its a line from the totally robust plank to the totally sounding diva. The Allegro is a near to perfect compromise if a darker sound is important for you.
Kind Regards,
Simon Wascher
---
http://simonwascher.info
LVJay
I checked out the Weichselbaumer site, and the "Alto" just blows my
mind. What a magnificent sound!
The "Allegro" is also beautiful, as are each of the instruments on the
site.
I also read your very informative articles for beginners, and found it
to be quite helpful. I wouldn't have even thought to ask about some of
those things.
Regarding the idea that beginners shouldn't use more than a basic
string set: as a pianist, I probably have more finger strength and
muscle control than most people who are just starting out.
Do you still think I should be looking at a "starter" instrument?
Does anyone else have thoughts on this?
Thanks again;
Jay
LVJay
I just watched several videos of you playing on Youtube.
The duet with the Nyckelharpa was just wonderful!
As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
Jay
Felicia Dale
pipers, but I get along just fine with a c/g gurdy.
Felicia.
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Martin Lodahl
and who you want to play it with, as well as the instrument itself.
Mine, for example, is very difficult to tune in G/C (the placement of
the keys is wrong for the "perpendicular octave" method), but no problem
at all in D/G. Most of the people I know prefer to play in keys
compatible with the D/G tuning. But I play a lot of early and baroque
music, and would like to be able to use the HG for that too, which would
be far easier in the G/C tuning, so eventually (should the economy ever
recover) I'll need a second instrument.
- Marty
Felicia Dale wrote:
> A d/g instrument is the easiest way to play with fiddlers and many
> pipers, but I get along just fine with a c/g gurdy.
>
> Felicia.
>
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 12:37 AM, LVJay wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
>> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
>> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
>>
>> Jay
--
Martin Lodahl of Auburn, California
UNIX Pro, Musician, Motorcyclist
20...@simonwascher.info
obviousely my answer to Jays mail was blocked for whatever reason. I try now to send it in two parts to figure out what triggered the block.
Here is part one. Part two follows in minutes:
Am 21.03.2010 um 08:16 schrieb LVJay:
> Regarding the idea that beginners shouldn't use more than a basic
> string set: as a pianist, I probably have more finger strength and
> muscle control than most people who are just starting out.
> Do you still think I should be looking at a "starter" instrument?
first, the number of strings for the beginner is not so much a question of strenght and contol but of the complexity of maintainance: a 10 string instruments has as much strings as two standard hurdy-gurdies, but to keep it in good tuning and playing conditon its harder to maintain as its all one complex system.
second, the Allegro is no beginners instrument, its a standard instrument. It can do all you ever expect from a hurdy gurdy and this in top quality. As long as you do not want more than a good hurdy-gurdy its great.
Only if you want to go beyond that, like play an instrument with viola c as lowest note on the keyboard, get a wider range keyboard, its usefull to buy an instrument of the alto type (alto is french for viola).
> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
second part follows.
20...@simonwascher.info
here comes the second part, third will follow soon. I Am really curious what triggered the block (it was not in the first half of the mail).
> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
In advanced playing, the open strings are of not much importance for the keys you play in (not more than for the violin for example). The open strings are seen as registers that can be combined: A typical set up with three strings would be:
* c - small C or C3, the note one octave below Middle C
* g - small G or G3, the G below Middle C
* g' one-lined G or G4, the G above Middle C
allowing to play in any keys in these three ranges and to use the following combinations: octave parallel, duodezim parallel (very nice), fifth parallel (and all three at once).
The choisse of drones is much more important for the keys you play in: they should be choosen after the roots prefered by the instruments you want to play with (the traditional relation between the pitch of open strings and drones is not a must - its just comfortable)
to be coninued soon....
20...@simonwascher.info
as there is sonething in the last seven sentences that googlegroups does not like, I gave up posting this text here.
Instead you will find the full text here:
http://simonwascher.info/text_hurdy-gurdy_choisses.txt
kind regards
Simon
20...@simonwascher.info
Am 21.03.2010 um 08:16 schrieb LVJay:
> Regarding the idea that beginners shouldn't use more than a basic
> string set: as a pianist, I probably have more finger strength and
> muscle control than most people who are just starting out.
> Do you still think I should be looking at a "starter" instrument?
first, the number of strings is for the beginner not so much a question of strenght and contol but of the complexity of maintainance: a 10 string one has as much strings as two standard hurdy-gurdies, but to keep it in good tuning and playing conditon its harder to maintain as its all one system.
second, the Allegro is no beginners instrument, its a standard instrument. It can do all you ever expect from a hurdy gurdy and this in top quality. As long as you do not want more than a good hurdy-gurdy its great.
Only if you want to go beyond that, like play an instrument with viola c as lowest note on the keyboard, get a wider range keyboard, its usefull to buy an instrument of the alto type (alto is french for viola).
> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
In advanced playing, the open strings are of not much importance for the keys you play in (not more than for the violin for example). The open strings are seen as registers that can be combined: A typical set up with three strings would be:
* c - small C or C3, the note one octave below Middle C
* g - small G or G3, the G below Middle C
* g' one-lined G or G4, the G above Middle C
allowing to play in any keys in these three ranges and to use the following combinations: octave parallel, duodezim parallel (very nice), fifth parallel (and all three at once).
The choisse of drones is much more important for the keys you play in: they should be choosen after the roots prefered by the instruments you want to play with (the traditional relation between the pitch of the hurdy gurdies open chanter strings and the drones is not a must - its just comfortable).
The keys played in are limited by drones and the intonation system choosen and setup after them. Any note is compared to the drones pitch at any moment, so tuning systems that respect the drone are sensible (no equal temperament but well tempered).
I personally play a lot in keys with the roots of C, G, D, A, E and sometimes F. The three drones are C/D (with capo) and G/A (with capo) and E/F (with capo). With the buzzing strings I mainly use g, c'/d' (with capo) sometimes tuned up to e'. The open melody strings are c, g, g', the tuning system is Kirnberger II, A=440.
Kind regards,
Simon
20...@simonwascher.info
another try for the third part. I changed some minor formulations, hoping this gets it going :-)
.... The keys played are limited by the drones and the intonation system choosen according to them. Any note is compared to the drones pitch at any moment, so tuning systems that respect the drone are sensible (no equal temperament, but well tempered).
I personally play a lot in keys with the roots of C, G, D, A, E and sometimes F. The three drones are C/D (with capo) and G/A (with capo) and E/F (with capo). Buzzing strings pitches use are mainly g, c'/d' (with capo) sometimes tuned up to e'. The open melody strings are c, g, g', the tuning system is Kirnberger II, A=440.
cheers,
S.
victoryfarm
tolerate desert conditions better?
I'm not a builder at all, but I would think that letting the wood get
acclimated before assembling would help some, no?
Mary
On Mar 16, 1:01 pm, David Gillett <geedav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've heard very
> good things about Mel Dorrie atwww.hurdygurdycrafters.com, though I
20...@simonwascher.info
I sent this mail to the list at lunchtime (Austria, UTC+1, so about nine hours ago) as it does not show up in my inbox I assume it got lost.
I resend it now, if you get it twice its my turn to apologise.
Am 21.03.2010 um 08:16 schrieb LVJay:
> Regarding the idea that beginners shouldn't use more than a basic string set: as a pianist, I probably have more finger strength and
> muscle control than most people who are just starting out. Do you still think I should be looking at a "starter" instrument?
first, the number of strings for the beginner is not so much a question of strenght and contol but of the complexity of maintainance: a 10 string instruments has as much strings as two standard hurdy-gurdies, but to keep it in good tuning and playing conditon its harder to maintain as its all one complex system.
second, the Allegro is no beginners instrument, its a standard instrument. It can do all you ever expect from a hurdy gurdy and this in top quality. As long as you do not want more than a good hurdy-gurdy its great.
Only if you want to go beyond that, like play an instrument with viola c as lowest note on the keyboard, get a wider range keyboard, its usefull to buy an instrument of the alto type (alto is french for viola).
> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
In advanced playing, the open strings are of not much importance for the keys you play in (not more than for the violin for example). The open strings are seen as registers that can be combined: A typical set up with three strings would be:
* c - small C or C3, the note one octave below Middle C
* g - small G or G3, the G below Middle C
* g' one-lined G or G4, the G above Middle C
allowing to play in any keys in these three ranges and to use the following combinations: octave parallel, duodezim parallel (very nice), fifth parallel (and all three at once).
The choisse of drones is much more important for the keys you play in: they should be choosen after the roots prefered by the instruments you want to play with (the traditional relation between the pitch of open strings and drones is not a must - its just comfortable)
The keys played in are limited by drones and the intonation system choosen and setup after them. Any note is compared to the drones pitch at any moment, so tuning systems that respect the drone are sensible (no equal temperament, but well tempered).
I personally play a lot in keys with the roots of C, G, D, A, E and sometimes F. The three drones are C/D (with capo) and G/A (with capo) and E/F (with capo). With the buzzing strings I mainly use g, c'/d' (with capo) sometimes tuned up to e'. The open melody strings are c, g, g', the tuning system is Kirnberger II, A=440.
Kind regards,
Simon
20...@simonwascher.info
here comes the second part:
> As I was listening to various tunes, it occurs to me:
> If I want to play with other instruments (pipers, etc) I should
> probably be looking at an instruments with a d/g tuning, yes?
In advanced playing, the open strings are of not much importance for the keys you play in (not more than for the violin for example). The open strings are seen as registers that can be combined: A typical set up with three strings would be:
20...@simonwascher.info
here comes the third part. So far no clue about the block :-)
VonH...@aol.com
Graham Whyte
I got Simon's email in full on his first attempt so perhaps Googlegroups
didn't cause the problem
A very well written and interesting mail it was indeed
The only bit I didn't understand was
"duodezim parallel"
Graham
20...@simonwascher.info
> "duodezim parallel"
is a parallel in the distance of an octave plus a fifth so for example middle c to the g' above the soprano system
S.
George Leverett-Altarwind Hurdy Gurdies
The only option I know of for this is to get something from Nathan Sweet at
Lake Tahoe, CA (6,000 +/- feet elevation), that way the instrument would
already be acclimated to high altitude. I used to always see him playing
his hurdy gurdy at the Renaissance fair when I lived there, he's a nice guy
and his instruments sound good. (I actually got my start building hurdy
gurdies from plans he loaned me)
If that's not possible, then be sure to let your builder know that you're in
a high altitude / unusually dry environment. There are steps that can be
taken during the building process to prepare the instrument for those
conditions, thus minimizing the possibility of cracking down the road
Of course, a humifier is still a good idea.
George
Mary
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Graham Whyte
Thank you very much
So playing in parallel at an interval of a twelfth
I assume "duodezim" means "duodecimal" (in German?)
I just tried it on my harpsichord tuned in 5th comma meantone, it sounds
VERY different from playing in parallel fifths
I think it is also found as a "mutation" stop on pipe organs (Quint ??)
There is also an organ stop called "Tierce" which I think is a tenth
interval, octave and a third
I can see why you tune in Kirnberger II
Werkmeister (sounds great on a pipe organ) or Valotti would probably
also work
I use Just Temperament on my HGs, not playing in the range of keys that
you do
It works well in G C and D, A is a little bit more of a problem
Graham
LVJay
I had not meant to imply that the Weichselbaumer "Allegro" was a
starter instrument.
I sent an email to his site requesting a price list. Haven't received
it yet.
Jay
Melvin Dorries
Dear friends,
A dry climate for a Hurdy-Gurdie's home is a big issue that deserves special attention for a Hurdy-Gurdy builder. What do we as builders do about this?
We take care in acclimating our wood before building an instrument and build in a shop where the relative humidity is held close to 40%. Generally the drier the wood the more stable it will be. Our wood is also stored inside in the shop sometimes for many years before it is used or we resaw it to make it thin to let it finish drying faster. we can also get a good read on moisture content by checking the wood with a special device called a moisture meter. We can dry wood further in our solar kiln to get it to a lower internal moisture level for special needs in dry climates.
We do ask customers about any concerns we have when we get an order from the dryer regions.
Wood selection is also a key to success. Some woods just expand and contract more than others when subjected to humidity and temperature changes. Selecting a wood that is inherently more stable is a wise move for extreme climates. Mahognay is an excellent choice for stability and it also makes good sound boards. backs and sides so the whole instrument could be made of mahogany for extreme climates.
Another factor in building a stable instrument is grain orientation. When a piece of wood is rather wide as in a back or soundboard it will move considerably. This is not a big issue if it is expanding a little (acquiring noisture in a more humid climate) but when it is shrinking (like in a Michigan forced air heated house without a humidifier) cracks may develop. So luthiers will carefully choose quartersawn wood which is much more stable than slab cut woods. Also, highly figured woods generally have inherent stresses that subject them to cracking more than plain strait grained woods when subjected to extreme changes in temp. and humidity. Yes fugure is beautiful but perhaps not the best choice in certain environments.
We have repaired many instruments that have cracked not because they were poorly built but because the owners allowed them to experience radical drying. This can happen in the car trunk on a 100 degree day or near a regester in winter. Yes, we have repaired cracks that are due to poorly seasoned woods that were used prematurely or that developed in an instrument that was built in a shop that did not pay attention to humidity levels or where the instrument would be used. Lots to consider when making a HG that will last.
We are constantly learning and I am glad that you are too.
I want to take a moment to say thanks to the many people who have taught us along the way and simply say "Wow" some of you guys amaze me with what you know. Thanks for trusting me with some of your secrets! Sorry, I cannot give out the names.
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